View Full Version : Heads we lose & tails we also lose.
It has been confirmed that a man who had a sex change to become a woman, has lost her High Court case in which she was suing her local Primary Care Trust (PCT).
The reason she was suing the PCT? Because they would not fund the £2300 operation needed to have her breasts enlarged on the NHS!
So overall, the NHS has saved £2300 (I am sure that there are a lot more deserving cases than this person)
But, the person had been granted Legal Aid, and a High Court case involving QC's does not come cheap.
So once again we lose out and Law Firms win
Metalattakk
25-May-10, 16:40
Starting to think you read the Daily Mail too much.
Surely a bit bigoted to highlight this case in particular - why should she/he not sue the NHS ? :confused
John Little
25-May-10, 17:44
I don't think we know enough about this to comment. My wife and I have a friend who is dear to us, and she had her operation yesterday; we are going to see her on Saturday. Whether or not the PCT should fund such operations is a debate - I suppose- but the PCT agreed that she had good reason and funded her.
As to her breasts, out of curiousity I asked her about a month ago if she intended to do something about them and she had not even thought about it.
I could not even begin to explore the state of mind of a person driven to such measures- it makes me wince to think of what she has gone through.
Whether or not the person who lost her court case against her PCT should have brought it, I know not. The merits may vary - I really do not know enough.
After the op, did their smell change from cheese to fish? [lol]
Am I alone in thinking what an offensive post this is by Joxville, who, so impressed with his "funny post" that he embellished it with a laughing icon?
Has the "Org" degenerated to such an extent, that this type of remark , which you would expect fa 12 year old to make, and not a 40+ "mature" adult, is allowed to appear on Org without a solitary complaint.
It is no wonder that his car was vandalised a couple of weeks ago if this is the way he conducts himself in work
This is not the first time that "Joxville" has offended me with his posts, I recall, over a year ago a friend showing me a vile video (Twitter/facebook) of him taking out his frustrations on his own shortcomings in life on immigrants. Copies available via pm and Email address
My original post was made in order to show how, in the big scheme of things, that it may have been better for the PCT to have thought outside the box and paid for the a £2K operation. It would have saved the taxpayer £50K+
Whether this morally correct to some people is debatable.
John Little, is, I consider, one of the very best posters on org (besides myself) and even if I do not agree with everything he says I like the fact that his posts show no evidence of bigotry, racism, flippancy, smutty comments etc.
Just brilliant informative, factual correct, posting, which most of us can only hope to aspire to,
He described how difficult it must have been for his friend to make such life changing decisions, and just for one split second, put yourself into that persons position.
Could you do it? I doubt I would have the bravery
I think he/she was very courageos and did not deserve the disgraceful comments made by Joxville
Boozeburglar
27-May-10, 01:40
Apparently you are not alone. Your clone agrees.
She is obviously entitled to this leagle recourse so i cant see the problem. What do you want positive discrimination against transexuals to reduce public costs.
It may cost more but we dont loose out unless we reduce folks rights. I do agree that court costs are ridiculously and obsienly expensive though and should be slashed to the bone.
As to Jox...well thats just a joke...hence the emoticron. There is little cutoff lines in humour and it should be seen as just a joke, i cant see a problem with it....man up!!
She is obviously entitled to this leagle recourse so i cant see the problem. What do you want positive discrimination against transexuals to reduce public costs.
It may cost more but we dont loose out unless we reduce folks rights. I do agree that court costs are ridiculously and obsienly expensive though and should be slashed to the bone.
As to Jox...well thats just a joke...hence the emoticron. There is little cutoff lines in humour and it should be seen as just a joke, i cant see a problem with it....man up!!
No, positive discrimination is not what I seek. Discrimination on any grounds is incorrect
If this person felt that she had the legal right to be able to sue (assisted by Legal Aid) would it have not been better if her and PCT sat around a table and come to an agreement? It would have saved thousands.
As to Jox...well thats just a joke...hence the emoticron. There is little cutoff lines in humour and it should be seen as just a joke, i cant see a problem with it....man up!
I have seen this odious persons posts on sites other than Caithness,org,
I will stick to my original opinion of this bigot
John Little
27-May-10, 06:53
Well it left me deadpan- but there again a lot of what passes for 'humour' these days leaves me deadpan.
Our friend is recovering well from a major operation - I do not think she will be suing anyone to pay her costs for further treatment though. I doubt her morality would allow her to.
I do think a lot depends on individual particularities and I assume the PCT and court judged that payment was not appropriate in this case.
In the absence of more detailed information my attitude has to be 'fair enough'.
craftinglass
28-May-10, 18:21
Am I alone in thinking what an offensive post this is by Joxville, who, so impressed with his "funny post" that he embellished it with a laughing icon?
Has the "Org" degenerated to such an extent, that the type of remark that you could expect from a 12 year old schoolboy to make, and not a 40+ "mature" warehouse shelf stacker. is allowed to appear on Org without a solitary complaint.
It is no wonder that his car was vandalised a couple of weeks ago if this is the way he conducts himself in work
This is not the first time that "Joxville" has offended me with his posts, I recall, over a year ago a friend showing me a vile video (Twitter/facebook) of him taking out his frustrations on his own shortcomings in life on immigrants. Copies available via pm and Email address
My original post was made in order to show how, in the big scheme of things, that it may have been better for the PCT have thought outside the box and paid for the a £2K operation, it would have saved the taxpayer £50K+
Whether this morally correct to some people is debatable.
John Little, is, I consider, one of the very best posters on org (besides myself) even if I do not agree with everything he says; no bigotry, racism, flippancy, smutty comments etc.
Just brilliant informative, factual correct posting, which most of us can only aspire to,
He described how difficult it must have been for his friend to make such life changing decisions, and just for one split second, put yourself into that position.
Could you do it?
I think he/she was very brave and did not deserve the disgraceful comments made by Joxville
Hi Anfield, I just had to reply to your post as i am so angry with what Joxville wrote.... vile and disgusting and yes, very childish.
As a nurse i have had the pleasure of working with pre and post op transgender patients in the unit i worked in, and nicer people you couldn't wish to meet. I never once in the 5 years of working in the private unit thought "what a waste of money this is" because these poor ladies had been to hell and back to get where they wanted to be by the time they came in to us.
Heres hoping JoxVILE grows some brain cells and grows up soon and stops his stupid comments....
annthracks
28-May-10, 18:27
I think Jox has just found another line crossed...
The Drunken Duck
28-May-10, 19:18
Oh for gods sake people go give your heads a wobble. Put your pitchforks away and give Jox a break. He made a joke. I have heard a lot worse than that about many subjects. I am sure Jox didn't mean any personal offence by it to any individual known to anyone here. There are people on this thread putting on the Boris Karloff's who have in the past accused me of being no better than a common murderer for my "lifestlye choice", they need to think about their own reactions to my, and other peoples, "lifestyle choices" before climbing the moral high ground and getting stuck into anyone.
I was on Det once with an RAF Navigator who had gone from He to She, being curious I asked her what the hardest part of the whole process was. She replied by saying that having the natural male sense of direction removed did hamper her a bit, being a Navigator and all. I am sure she would not have been outraged at Jox's comment. It may even have raised a wry smile, she had a wicked sense of humour.
He made a joke, he didn't murder anyone. Get a grip.
Sara Jevo
28-May-10, 19:35
I have a lot of friends at various stages of gender transition.
They have mixed views about this.
It is worth pointing out the NHS does not do cosmetic surgery.
The surgery required for transition is in response to a clinical condition - gender dysphoria, I think. Therefore, surgery is for clinical reasons, not cosmetic.
Gender dysphoria is not a choice and no-one would choose to go through the physical, emotional and chemical trauma. But their relief upon completion is overwhelming, and rectifies an accident of their birth.
It's not clear to me why, in this case, the patient turned down genital surgery but wanted breast augmentation.
The Guardian legal section (http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/may/28/transsexual-nhs-breast-enlargement)today weighs up the ruling
Once an arsehole-always an arsehole-quich.
I have a lot of friends at various stages of gender transition.
Lots of friends? Just how many transexuals are there in the country?
Could it have been a test case by that PCT?
In this twisted world we live in various public bodies will allow something like this to go to court to get a legal decision which then becomes the benchmark.
If they had gone with the £2300, 'cos it would have saved the £50k legal bill, it may well have opened the flood gates to many others wanting similar surgery which could have the potential of costing the trust many tens of thousands more. They would have to find that cash by cancelling other more needy operations if so.
Am I alone in thinking what an offensive post this is by Joxville,......
No-one seemed to have taken any offence to it until you highlighted it two days later Anfield so I guess you've answered your own question.
Having read it now I don't think it funny. However, I find your personal attack on Joxville more offensive. I note you have recruited a "fan" in the name of craftinglass.
Best of luck with your quest and your Agenda, Anfield. Yesterday it was John Thurso, today it was Joxville.....
Who knows what tomorrow might bring......:)
Sara Jevo
28-May-10, 23:04
Lots of friends? Just how many transexuals are there in the country?
Estimates vary, and the term "transexual" can mean different things to different people.
It was estimated a few years ago that the number of "visible" post-operative transexuals in the UK was 6,000. This excludes those who will have transitioned and identify themselves in their truly holistic gender, be it male or female. Most often the transition is male-to-female, but sometimes it is female-to-male.
If you extend the scope to include transvestites, both full-time and part-time, pre-operative transexuals etc etc, it's estimated that approximately 1-5 per cent of the population are affected to a greater or lesser degree by gender dysphoria. There are a lot of shades of gray in this spectrum, but I dont have stats for the proportion who are compelled along the gender reassignment surgery route.
There's various international studies that provide further population estimates.
But ultimately, I'm not sure anyone really counts, since the purpose of the gender reassignment surgery is to correct the accident of birth and live a holistic life in one's true gender. For many, that will mean identifying themselves for the rest of their life as male or female, not trans.
Tubthumper
28-May-10, 23:17
I just want to say, whatever floats your boat Anfield. It's not something I would consider, but if you need it to makeyour life fulfilled, far be it from me to criticise. It's your body, you're free to modify it any way you see fit.
I only wish the public purse wasn't stretched quite so far to help you be happy, but hey-ho. There are worse causes out there.
"..Best of luck with your quest and your Agenda, Anfield. Yesterday it was John Thurso, today it was Joxville.....
Who knows what tomorrow might bring......."
I find it rather interesting that the person who made the post which I found offensive has not made any reply to my post criticising him.
"Having read it now I don't think it funny" are your words, not mine. Does this not prove my point, and that you agree with me that mocking a person who had just undergone a surgical operation (John Little post #4) is despicable and really scraping the barrel. If John's friend was female and had just undergone a mastectomy or any other female specific operation would you find this funny? I do not think so
The list of people who I find morally repugnant and who are on my "agenda" include Racists, Homophobes, Xenophobes, Religious bigots & paedophiles (of all denominations) Animal Abusers, Freeloaders, Warmongers, Inheritance tax avoiders etc etc.
If you are a member of any of the above groups and my posts upset you, tough, I will continue speaking out against you and your kind
Your comment "I note you have recruited a "fan" in the name of craftinglass." perplexes me, and after re-reading it a couple of times still cannot get the drift of what you are trying to say.
Could you enlighten me (and other Org members) as to exactly what you mean?
I just want to say, whatever floats your boat Anfield. It's not something I would consider, but if you need it to makeyour life fulfilled, far be it from me to criticise. It's your body, you're free to modify it any way you see fit.
I only wish the public purse wasn't stretched quite so far to help you be happy, but hey-ho. There are worse causes out there.
I think that you have had too many of your stated locations i.e sherberts
Go to bed now, Tomorrow, log on and read OP with spectacles, and not through the bottom of a gin glass!
Goodnight
This is not the first time that "Joxville" has offended me with his posts, I recall, over a year ago a friend showing me a vile video (Twitter/facebook) of him taking out his frustrations on his own shortcomings in life on immigrants. Copies available via pm and Email address
I don't recall ever putting a video on facebook attacking immigrants, (BTW I don't have a twitter account). Could you pm me the details of the offending article, thanks.
Ive been waiting three years now for my penis reduction op on the NHS.
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