View Full Version : Robbing Peter to pay for Paul's mistakes
Plans are afoot to enforce a 5 percent pay cut on all public sector workers along with a hike in VAT to help plug the vast hole in the economy. This has already happened in other EU countries.
Lets take an example- the city banker on a £100k bonus who won't be hit by such a cut other than extra VAT on his new Porsche. On the other hand the nurse in A&E who cannot get on to the property ladder (as said bank isn't giving out any mortgages to lower paid workers).
If the banker- perish the thought- were to be run down by a bus coming from another champagne night out at Bougies and taken to same A&E, and the nurse working an extra shift to make ends meet was too tired to cope, who do you feel sympathy for?
The long suffering population of Hampstead
Where has this 5% enforced pay cut been announced?
What is the hike in VAT that has been announced?
How low is the low pay for a nurse?
When I married my husband and moved south, I gave up work. I'm fortunate- he works with the Tesco developers and makes enough money to keep us both. But he's a skinflint, and I have to account for every single penny - he keeps me on a very tight budget. Given that I worked in the public sector back north, I have been looking for work, but can get only temporary work in London. Yes, I am affected- and I feel bad for the hard working people out there. I love my husband dearly- but I'm less enchanted by his Tory friends- most of whom work in banking or development and who crow about their £300 cases of wine and their fast cars.
Husband was looking forward to the Tory rule on inheritance tax- we live in an expensive house in Hampstead- but it belongs to his parents, who live in the garden flat- who I'm main carer for- and given the location of the house, and its value, when they pass on, we will have to sell up. personally I'd love to return to the Highlands- but it won't happen soon.
VAT due to rise to 20%
read the news- those pay cuts are coming very soon- Ireland has had 17% pay cuts for its public sector workers- teachers, nurses, cleaners, and council workers
nursing isn't well paid
Tubthumper
17-May-10, 21:59
...nursing isn't well paid
Compared to what?:eek:
Obviously you are looking for an answer to your problems on this .org.
Simple solution, get rid of the skinflint, take him for half the flash house and move to Wick on your lonesome.
Now I just know that is what you wanted to hear :cool:
Husband was looking forward to the Tory rule on inheritance tax- we live in an expensive house in Hampstead- but it belongs to his parents, who live in the garden flat- who I'm main carer for- and given the location of the house, and its value, when they pass on, we will have to sell up.
This is something that confuses me, your living in an expensive house (I assume your not paying for that privilege) and when your dear, beloved relatives cash in their chips you expect to get an expensive house for....free?
Or when your dear, beloved relatives expire you get the house with a tax bill, but you still get an expensive house you've not paid for.
If I were in your position I would be ensuring the best care and support for your relatives and use their house, if necessary to do just that.
The nub of bagpuss's comment was that on the death of her last parent-in-law inheritance tax will be due on any estate. This is manifestly unjust given than the most valuable asset will be the property. Anyone who owns a property has probably paid Stamp Duty on its purchase price (a tax) and has paid VAT on servicing the property as well as on any improvements. So they’ve already been screwed for tax. The owner should be able to leave their property to whomever they want. There is no good reason for taxing the property further after death other than to satisfy some warped and twisted dogma.
having gone into all that, I was speaking to my mother in law who said that in order to get round the inheritance tax, that she and my father in law have decided to leave the house to my husband's grown up children by his first wife (he was a widower)
Might be back among you sooner than expected- husband is foaming at the mouth
having gone into all that, I was speaking to my mother in law who said that in order to get round the inheritance tax, that she and my father in law have decided to leave the house to my husband's grown up children by his first wife (he was a widower)
Might be back among you sooner than expected- husband is foaming at the mouth
There are a great many ways to plan for and mitigate Inheritance tax, it requires forward thinking but the methods are available to all. :)
Tubthumper
18-May-10, 00:19
However all of these are effectively tax avoidance schemes. Why do we bleat about how awful the wage cuts and cuts in services are, then do our best to avoid making any contribution to the fund that provides for us?
We are selfish and mean. Therefore we have no right to moan.
However all of these are effectively tax avoidance schemes. Why do we bleat about how awful the wage cuts and cuts in services are, then do our best to avoid making any contribution to the fund that provides for us?
We are selfish and mean. Therefore we have no right to moan.
Tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion is only for the wealthy and bankers and politicians.
Incidentally the most effective planning for inheritance tax, is for the people liable, to take out a life insurance policy on the prospective deceased. This way tax is not avoided, you just have the insurance money to pay the bill with. :cool:
Tubthumper
18-May-10, 00:32
I don't get it. The bills have to be paid. We all have to play our part. Why would we try to avoid paying tax? :confused
Isn't that just selfish? And as bad as what rich folk do?
I have no problem with inheritance tax.
I get taxed on what I earn. I get taxed on my interest. I will get taxed on my pension.
Why should the son or daughter of someone who's parents die not get taxed on their gains?
As said already, if you want the services we recieve then somebody has to pay for it.
Boozeburglar
18-May-10, 02:30
most of whom work in banking or development and who crow about their £300 cases of wine and their fast cars
On the basis of such cheap wine I presume their cars are MG Mondeos.
What was that road your hubby used to live on again?
NickInTheNorth
18-May-10, 07:20
The nub of bagpuss's comment was that on the death of her last parent-in-law inheritance tax will be due on any estate. This is manifestly unjust given than the most valuable asset will be the property. Anyone who owns a property has probably paid Stamp Duty on its purchase price (a tax) and has paid VAT on servicing the property as well as on any improvements. So they’ve already been screwed for tax. The owner should be able to leave their property to whomever they want. There is no good reason for taxing the property further after death other than to satisfy some warped and twisted dogma.
Given all that you say maybe what should happen with inheritance tax is that all that an individual has actually paid into a property should be tax free, with the huge windfall profit being forfeit to the state?
So Mr X that bought his Hampstead mansion for £80 000 30 years since gets to pass on lets be generous £200 000 tax free, the other £800 000 is given to the state, after all it is only the governments policies that have made house price inflation so ridiculous over the last 30 years that have turned the original small investment into a million pounds.
Taxing property after death is not some twisted dogma, it is a means of raising money for the state from those who need it the least. As they say you can't take it with you when you're dead :D
Thinking about it, does anyone actually need to make more than 50,000. I mean I can't see myself ever needing to. Why not heavily tax anything after than point. If theres a general wage limit then prices on goods and services would fall.
I see nothing wrong with inheritance tax either, they call it the death tax; conservatives are good at naming things. I'm waiting for the we're-coming-to-take-your-children tax next. It would still leave something for children.
I'd close all tax loopholes and havens also.
Thinking about it, does anyone actually need to make more than 50,000. I mean I can't see myself ever needing to. Why not heavily tax anything after than point. If theres a general wage limit then prices on goods and services would fall.
I see nothing wrong with inheritance tax either, they call it the death tax; conservatives are good at naming things. I'm waiting for the we're-coming-to-take-your-children tax next. It would still leave something for children.
I'd close all tax loopholes and havens also.
If no one earned more than £50k, half the business and countries in the world would go bankrupt. What are you some, kind of commy?
:Razz
Green_not_greed
18-May-10, 10:27
Plans are afoot to enforce a 5 percent pay cut on all public sector workers along with a hike in VAT to help plug the vast hole in the economy. This has already happened in other EU countries.
Well as private sector workers have been on pay freezes or had pay cuts over the past 2 years or so, why should public sector workers - who we all pay for - have the luxury of continued pay rises, bonuses and a luxurious pension scheme?
Public sector salary cuts - if they happen as many are predicting - will only bring them into line with the private sector. And following those measures the vast majority of the public sector will still have their jobs. Unlike many in the private sector.
There are a great many ways to plan for and mitigate Inheritance tax, it requires forward thinking but the methods are available to all. :)
If John Thurso is your MP, ask him how his family deal with the thorny problem of Inheritance Tax
Are you so bogged down in Communistic ideology and booze, old pal, that you can not tell the difference between the Clan Sinclair Trust (C.S.T.) and the Sinclair Family Trust.
Two totally diverse bodies but it obviously suits your political agenda to make them one, or are you a genuinely thick Scouser ? [lol][lol]
Incidentally the Clan Sinclair Trust is not and never has been investigated by the O.S.C.R.
That piece of misinformation was yet another attempted political smear dating back to November 2009.
I have only been in Caithness for 3 months and even with my limited interest in the area I could verify the facts.
If no one earned more than £50k, half the business and countries in the world would go bankrupt. What are you some, kind of commy?
:Razz
Not really, thats a rather disingenuous statement as a communist wouldn't want a monetary system at all. I disagree with your statement about businesses going bankrupt. Think about what people got paid in the past. There were be a realignment with more manageable numbers. The limit can be setup at whatever. I personally wouldn't set it above 200k a year though.
Not really, thats a rather disingenuous statement as a communist wouldn't want a monetary system at all. I disagree with your statement about businesses going bankrupt. Think about what people got paid in the past. There were be a realignment with more manageable numbers. The limit can be setup at whatever. I personally wouldn't set it above 200k a year though.
You really are talking tosh (with the greatest of respect) Here is (just one) very visible example. Look in any harbour or marina anywhere in the world and you will see a great many pleasure boats with a minimum price tag of £100k. What do you think would happen to the boatyards that build them, the crews who crew them, the harbours and marinas that service them? If no one could afford to buy them in the first place.
Sorry for digression but in view of a previous poster I find I need to clarify something.
I reproduce below part of an Email I have received.
".. Thank you for your email of 4 May 2010 requesting information in respect of Clan Sinclair Trust (SC028778). I am responding to your query under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 (FOISA) legislation.
I can confirm that a complaint has been received and that we are currently assessing the information provided in line with our Inquiry and Investigation Policy. You can view a copy of the policy here (http://www.oscr.org.uk/publicationitem.aspx?id=053cbb6a-b826-4fa6-81ec-f489411a8a37). Our inquiries are ongoing and therefore we have made no recommendations at this stage.
Yours sincerely
Morag Stewart
Morag Stewart
Communications, Website and Freedom of Information Officer
OSCR
2nd Floor, Quadrant House
9 Riverside Drive, Dundee DD1 4NY
Dir ph 01382 346839
Web: www.oscr.org.uk (http://www.oscr.org.uk/)
You really are talking tosh (with the greatest of respect) Here is (just one) very visible example. Look in any harbour or marina anywhere in the world and you will see a great many pleasure boats with a minimum price tag of £100k. What do you think would happen to the boatyards that build them, the crews who crew them, the harbours and marinas that service them? If no one could afford to buy them in the first place.
That hypothetical suggestion would factor that in, as wages decreased the buying power of an individual pound would increase and the price of such luxury items would lower. Like it did back in the past say the 1950s for example.
Its not ideal I just fail to see regardless of skill how some people justify the money they get.
Sorry for digression but in view of a previous poster I find I need to clarify something.
I reproduce below part of an Email I have received.
".. Thank you for your email of 4 May 2010 requesting information in respect of Clan Sinclair Trust (SC028778). I am responding to your query under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 (FOISA) legislation.
I can confirm that a complaint has been received and that we are currently assessing the information provided in line with our Inquiry and Investigation Policy. You can view a copy of the policy here (http://www.oscr.org.uk/publicationitem.aspx?id=053cbb6a-b826-4fa6-81ec-f489411a8a37). Our inquiries are ongoing and therefore we have made no recommendations at this stage.
Yours sincerely
Morag Stewart
Morag Stewart
Communications, Website and Freedom of Information Officer
OSCR
2nd Floor, Quadrant House
9 Riverside Drive, Dundee DD1 4NY
Dir ph 01382 346839
Web: www.oscr.org.uk (http://www.oscr.org.uk/)
A copy of you original request, corresponding e-mails et al would nice, to put that in context. Assumings there no personal information.
[quote=Andfield;708240]Are you so bogged down in Communistic ideology and booze, old pal, that you can not tell the difference between the Clan Sinclair Trust (C.S.T.) and the Sinclair Family Trust.
Two totally diverse bodies but it obviously suits your political agenda to make them one, or are you a genuinely thick Scouser ? [lol][lol]
How about an answer to that bit then old pal.
I bow to your recent bit of information about the Clan Sinclair Trust but what exactly has that got to do with John Thurso.
I notice HRH Prince Charles is the Patron of this charity - do you think perhaps he has had his fingers in the biscuit tin ? [lol]
A copy of you original request, corresponding e-mails et al would nice, to put that in context. Assumings there no personal information.
Sorry about that:
"Dear Sir/Madam,
I am researching the history of the above trust, and whilst doing a internet search I discovered that the Clan Sinclair Trust had been reported to the OSCR by one its previous benefactors, because of the alleged illegal sale of some of its possessions.
Could you advise me as to how this affair was handled by the OSCR, and whether or not any recommendations were made.
Thanking you in advance.."
So old m8 your own email answers the question you pose on your signature ??
"because of the alleged illegal sale of some of its possessions".
Have you still not figured out the difference between the Clan Sinclair Trust and the Sinclair Family Trust ?? :lol:
Sad to say it but your muck slinging is about on a par with the late (unlamented) Damien McBride and he was not very good at it either. [lol][lol]
peter macdonald
18-May-10, 19:02
http://www.castlesinclairgirnigoe.org/news.html
For info
Tubthumper
18-May-10, 19:14
Back to the original subject, I gather that none of those who voted for our latest government have ever made any money out of the glorious 13 years of financial mismanagement that has just ended?
Hello? Anybody?
http://www.castlesinclairgirnigoe.org/news.html
For info
The above press release mentions:
"..Regarding recent rumours in circulation in relation to an alleged investigation into the Clan Sinclair Trust by the Office of the Scottish Charities Regulator (OSCR), the Trust would like to make the following.."
The Office of the Scottish Charities Regulator (OSCR) has confirmed that IT IS investigating the Clan Sinclair Trust (see above posts with confirmation Emails from OSCR.
So it is a proven fact, and not a rumour, that the Clan Sinclair Trust is being investigated by the OSCR.
Back to the original subject, I gather that none of those who voted for our latest government have ever made any money out of the glorious 13 years of financial mismanagement that has just ended?
Hello? Anybody?
That's why everyone is so depressed (should be a lightbulb emoty doubry)!
Well fasten you seatbelts everyone because over the next couple of days we will learn just what a complete F up Labour has left us with [evil]
Tubthumper
18-May-10, 21:45
All the money that the country now owes must have gone somewhere. Too easy to dismiss 'toxic loans' and sigh, I bet most of the scam artists who are now in charge have had their share of it.
So where is all the dosh? It was created, it was spent, where did it go to?
Lots of people made a handsome profit out of our Labour Government.
All the money that the country now owes must have gone somewhere. Too easy to dismiss 'toxic loans' and sigh, I bet most of the scam artists who are now in charge have had their share of it.
So where is all the dosh? It was created, it was spent, where did it go to?
Lots of people made a handsome profit out of our Labour Government.
Tub's, money has no value, only 'things' have value, leave 'things' in the hands of Labour for 13 years, you discover that the value of 'things' is a lot less than you thought :eek:
If your house loses £20k in value, you are worth £20k less (your wealth has decreased), no one has made this value (money). You have just lost it. (sorry for the simplistic language, scousers-you know).
Tubthumper
18-May-10, 22:07
And when the Tories came into power last time, I had some things. Industry Training Boards, Apprenticeships, some kind of manufacturing industry, national assets like power stations, railways etc.
And because they couldn't be bothered fixing any of what was broken, they picked a fight and won, shut down what they didn't like, gave away what they didn't understand, squandered my inheritance and made a wee fortune for their chums (and themselves). And gambled everything by subscribing to a financial model that could only lead to disaster.
So what was left for the chronically inept Labour to make anything of? Manufacturing base - Gone. National assets - flogged to speculators, then hoovered up by the French & Germans. Financial sector - only able to 'compete' by throwing themselves wildly at any bait the yanks dangled, tying themselves into greater and greater knots and patting each other on the back while earning millions by doing - what? Being a convenient blamehound I suppose.
So we're all going to have to suffer? That'll include the blue rinse brigade in middle england then. And the speculators. And the bankers. Aye, right!
Political parties? Faces to keep the plebs from working out that it's all a big circular game, except some of the bits are missing and no-one tells us the rules.
Tchyoubs!
And when the Tories came into power last time, I had some things. Industry Training Boards, Apprenticeships, some kind of manufacturing industry, national assets like power stations, railways etc.
And because they couldn't be bothered fixing any of what was broken, they picked a fight and won, shut down what they didn't like, gave away what they didn't understand, squandered my inheritance and made a wee fortune for their chums (and themselves). And gambled everything by subscribing to a financial model that could only lead to disaster.
So what was left for the chronically inept Labour to make anything of? Manufacturing base - Gone. National assets - flogged to speculators, then hoovered up by the French & Germans. Financial sector - only able to 'compete' by throwing themselves wildly at any bait the yanks dangled, tying themselves into greater and greater knots and patting each other on the back while earning millions by doing - what? Being a convenient blamehound I suppose.
So we're all going to have to suffer? That'll include the blue rinse brigade in middle england then. And the speculators. And the bankers. Aye, right!
Political parties? Faces to keep the plebs from working out that it's all a big circular game, except some of the bits are missing and no-one tells us the rules.
Tchyoubs!
You really have got a cob on recently :eek:
You really have got a cob on recently :eek:
Cannot blame Tubthumper, her hormones are all over the place these days
Aaldtimer
19-May-10, 02:37
Cannot blame Tubthumper, her hormones are all over the place these days
Not a lot wrong with her brains though!:confused
Oh' right........so the current catastrophic state of the nation is in fact all the Conservatives fault. Now I understand, thanks for explaining. :lol:
Oh maybe not :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8690312.stm
secretsquirrel
19-May-10, 11:52
for those who are interested here is the link to the 2009/2010 payscales for nurses and other NHS staff. http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/233901/003303.pdf
it is from the Royal College of Nursing website. According to it "The minimum starting salary for a registered nurse is £20,710."
Oh' right........so the current catastrophic state of the nation is in fact all the Conservatives fault. Now I understand, thanks for explaining. :lol:
Remember railways when you did not need a degree to buy the ticket you wanted
British gas where the profits went back to the citizens of the UK
Water authorities when they were not owned by foreign businesses
British Telecon when you did not need to take out a bank loan to get them to call out to repair a simple fault.
Coal from British mines
Council Housing
etc etc
I accept that some of the above industries did require some modernisation but if the Conservatives were the "party best suited to business" why did they not invest in the above industries so that all of us could have profited in them, and not just the "chosen few"
Tubthumper
19-May-10, 12:23
Oh' right........so the current catastrophic state of the nation is in fact all the Conservatives fault. Now I understand, thanks for explaining. :lol:
I think you're oversimplifying it a bit Ducati, the Tories can't be held solely responsible for the 'mess' we're 'in'. Give Labour some credit, please!
It becomes apparent that UK National Government has become increasingly irrelevant over the years, becoming restricted in its influence by the EU and the US, the multi national nature of business and the growth of the 'greedy tchyoub' who knows only of the need to take, take, take, whether in the form of benefits or ill-gotten tax-free profits.
I see a better world ahead where regional government as part of a federation is the way forward, where a true 'big picture' view can be taken and leaders are chosen on their ability to lead rather than their accent & suit.
The Tories were at least partially responsible for allowing greed to become desirable (I can see you rubbing your hands with glee as your house becomes worth 10 times what is was last year!) and although their intentions in taking down the unions might have been laudable, their complete inability to even think about rebuilding the nation into something decent afterwards marks them as key players in our downfall. And as the Labour goons who took over were even less able to lead than their predecessors, it only got worse. But we never noticed because of the cheap credit available from those who'd learned their craft under MT and her crew, and were encouraged to go for it by TB and his crew as there was nothing else to put tax dosh in the bank.
Our country stinks. And there were chances to turn it round (like other countries managed to do) in the 1980's, and again in the 1990s but they were squandered on helping those who cared nothing, took everything and gave nothing in return. Led by a 'leadership class' that continues to be brought up to get all squirmy at the thought of being in charge, but are pretty dire when it comes to the crunch. And appear to be infected by the 'greedy git' virus, just like the rest of us.
Why do we bother with elections? Why not just appoint a managing director, with a clear mandate to 'make the country fit for everyone'. get rid of the time serving MP dullards. And get rid of the media. And the financial speculators. Also people who drive grey cars.
I completely agree about grey cars-what is that about? Oh hang on, I have one
On one or two points, no type of government is perfect or suites everyone. I prefer a government that does not put barriers in the way of me trying to make a living.
I understand that we sold off a lot of nationalised industries. These were a drain on the nation being run by the type of me me me people you are decrying, They had been under invested for so long (by a succession of Govs of different ilk’s) the most cost effective thing to do was give the problem to someone else. If you work in a power station or drive a train, it really doesn’t matter who owns it. (And these are some of the highest paid workers we have). Train drivers earn in excess of £30,000 not really a 'workers' pay in my opinion. I know several people who work in the power industry and again very well rewarded. So, what does it matter, we now have the jobs and the country doesn't have to take the losses.
The last government didn't sell unprofitable business, it bought it
Now a lot of people on here, seem to harbour a great deal of animosity to anyone who has the gall to get off there backside and try to improve their lot in life. That to me seems churlish.
Tubthumper
19-May-10, 17:15
Now a lot of people on here, seem to harbour a great deal of animosity to anyone who has the gall to get off there backside and try to improve their lot in life. That to me seems churlish.
I have no issues with those who try to better themselves. I do have issues when the prevailing ethos is 'to hell with everyone else, I'm grabbing what I can!'
Good for those who drive trains - they carry great responsibility. Also those who run power stations - again great safety issues, also making sure the lights don't go out. Let them be well paid.
But what about the man who short-sells shares and bonds he doesn't even own? Risks? Only to his pocket and the steaming wallets of those who slaver at the prospect of another dime, never mind where it comes from. Does he deserve his fortune?
Or what about the Social Work Manager - great responsibility, huge amount of human suffering, should be well reimbursed for the pressure and the risks. But what's this? Having taken the high wages, when the cack hits the fan, they deny it was their fault. Deserve their fortune?
Folk where I work have taken early release recently. I've heard figures in the region of £400k bing bandied about, for fairly junior managerial posts. Deserve their fortune?
There's a bloke I know who has given up. He worked and was made redundant. Went to college to better himself. But there are no jobs. Does he deserve at least a share of a fortune?
Those in charge can only think of efficiency, while those with something can only defend themselves and grab what they can while they can.
Someone has to realise - it is NOT about efficiency, it's about what's best for all the folk in the country, even if they don't know what they want or need.
Unemployment in this country is going to go through the roof. We with out mortgages and loans are going to find ourselves bound to the treadmill. That's if we still have a means to survive.
Better yourself. Just pray that you're not next in line for the wage cuts, huge VAT increases, pension cuts (private as well as public).
It's not really about Tories or Labour, they're all irrelevant and really the same. It's about really changing how we do things, to make sure OUR world is run for OUR benefit.
Well I surrender, I think you tend to get what you deserve in life.
I'm having a real problem with all the doom and gloom though, buck up chaps and chappesses :eek:
Tubthumper
19-May-10, 18:09
I will shut up now. All this anger - it's not good for me in my condition.
Apologies to anyone who felt threatened, depressed or annoyed. Not to those with grey cars though...
:confused
Tubthumper’s got a real cob on
Maybe problem with her job on?
Fellow workers getting rich?
Feels she has to moan and bitch?
And take the moral highest ground
All are on the take she’s found
But low, a spark of hope is bound
When cons win election round (with the help of the lib dems):eek:
And all is lighter than before
When nick and dave take to the floor
But then discover there is more
To deep depression behind that door
Old Gordon has cock’d up we know
And left us with a bitter blow
Now there is brewing great big row
As depth of hole begins to show
In nations finance don’t you know
We have been delt a body blow
So what to do? How can we best?
Renew our love of life and zest
Its up to us to put to rest
Our fear of future cold, no jest!
So work hard but do not demand
More than you need to live, a grand (a month should be enough):cool:
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