View Full Version : Bad language.
John Little
15-May-10, 22:18
It may be that I am a prude. I do not think that I am for I am a very liberal sort of person in my views.
But truly I am getting fed up with the amount of bad language in our newspapers - and in the media generally.
There are words that I was brought up not to use in company - and indeed if the children in our family use those words they are roundly told off.
But the moral high ground seems to be disappearing from under our feet as our great national dailies regularly use language that I am no stranger to, but imho should not be appearing in the national press.
Some years ago I shrugged when one of the big broadsheets began to use the F word on a regular basis- and now they use the C word, which as far as I am concerned is a great social taboo and never to be used out of context, and never in polite mix of people.
Look I have worked on farms and warehouses and building sites and have done my fair share of effing and blinding, but it seems to me and always has that there is a line where you just become a pottymouth.
And that is crude and unimaginative.
Some of our high flying journalists seem to use 'words' these days as a way of getting attention like a naughty little child, just for effect, then stepping back with a smile to see what the reaction will be to their dropping a whoopsie. Comedians often do the same.
And if you object then you are thought illiberal.
I am getting a little fed up with moral relativism lately - and perhaps more intolerant as I get older- but I think using swearwords and stuff society still sees as filthy language in newspapers is irresponsible, degrades our cultural life, and gives the wrong example to young people.
And I think they should exercise some responsibility and stop it.
So I think I will write to the editor of the Guardian and tell him why I am not going to buy his paper any more.
OK - so I'm a Fascist - sue me!
Hmmmm - methinks swear words are by far the least awful thing to be read in newspapers . . . :(
Invisible
15-May-10, 22:27
This may be a very controversial statement but at the end of the day they are just words.
Oh fer 's sake don't be such a ing wuss, ing just because there's a ing here or a ing ing there you wanna go and ing write a ing strongly ing worded letter to a ing ing ing wit editor of the ing ing Gruaniad.
:Razz
You have hit the nail on the head, Invis! You are young and are much more accepting of bad language. (Soz, JL, not callin you old!) Language is changing - some would argue not for the better - I feel it is just times moving on! I also don't think swearing shocks like it used to.
I admit to swearing ....
But when angry, i, seem to go very polite for some unknown reason.
I dont understand the need for the f word and the c word in usual conversation and if cursing use the swear word for poop!
I dont really swear infront of my parents even though im grown up now, it seems disrespectaple somehow.
But when you drop a sofa on your foot (losing your big toenail in the proccess) only the f word comes to your tongue:eek:
Dadie that would have helped with your pain - esp if you are not much of a swearer! I watched a wee thing on tv about it! Using swear words helps your ability to withstand pain but sadly it works better for people who do not swear as a matter of course.
John Little
15-May-10, 22:36
I am not speaking of people swearing in everyday life and in their own space and situations. It's the media that bug me.
Indeed, John, but are we immitating the media (ie falling under their spell like they wish us to do) or are they merely goin with the times?
Invisible
15-May-10, 22:41
What story was it in particular John, that the swearing was in?
John Little
15-May-10, 22:42
So your kids swear all round the hoose and tell ye to F off if they don't like what you say?
Whos kids?
Mine dont and if they did they would get the same soap treatment I did if they tried it!
John Little
15-May-10, 22:47
Well there you go. So why have it in the papers?
Guardian Magazine today - back pages- Lucy Mangan.
But that's mild compared to some of the stuff I have read over the past few months.
It is getting more socially acceptable to swear.
thinking of the F word on telly as 1 example...
John Little
15-May-10, 22:53
So why accept on your telly, radio and papers etc what you won't have in your house?
I have to say I don't buy into the whole "people swear to make up for their inadequate vocabulary" thing. I have to agree bad language is probably overused and still used by some to shock but I think those people are labouring under a sad illusion.
I walk down the street and hear young lassies using the "F" word to end every sentence, I even hear them on the bus, even my own Granddaughters, it makes me cringe, I swear but only in the company of males, I would never think of swearing in front of my mother, I rarely swear in the company of females. I was at sea and sailors have a reputation for using salty language. I do think swearing is a lack of education, and a lack of vocabulary. I often get frustrated myself, but swear in front of a woman.......NIVER
Back in the dark ages of CB Radio I was a CB addict, Edinburgh was referred to by the Truckers as Bucketmouth City, because of the swearing used by the teenagers on air, especially the females describing in 4 letter terms what they had done to their boyfriends or vica versa the night before.
ShelleyCowie
15-May-10, 23:17
ohh im a bit of a swearer! :o I dont mean to do it, it just comes out sometimes! Dont swear infront of the kids, so the amount of times i have shouted out FUDGE today is unreal from bein ill.
Infront of kids i genenrally just say poop. Its a good word, everyone does poops so i can say that :lol:
But when playing something like Halo Reach tonight and some random player starts betraying me......nasty shelley is aboot! :evil
I too am of the same opinion that swearing in the media is much to be lamented. I also find swearing in general to be offensive although the odd profane oath when stubbing a toe, walking into a lampost and other incidents of that ilk is to be expected.
Fully in agreement with invisable an golach!
The Pepsi Challenge
16-May-10, 01:25
I never swear in public. I only ever swear in front of close friends; friends I know won't be offended by such words. I've always been led to believe people will think more of you if don't swear, I always tell my nephews this. That said, swearing is part of our culture - it's industrial language after all: it's there, and it should be up to people to use it as and when they like it. But that doesn't necessarily mean I have to like it or want to hear it. However, to be in a public place surrounded by other members of the public and hear a 14-year-old girl (or younger) use the "C" word, just makes me embarrassed... not for me - but them.
"So I think I will write to the editor of the Guardian and tell him to f off".
OK - so I'm a Fascist - sue me!
[lol]
I too am of the same opinion that swearing in the media is much to be lamented. I also find swearing in general to be offensive although the odd profane oath when stubbing a toe, walking into a lampost and other incidents of that ilk is to be expected.
You should drink less LIZZ :Razz
kmahon2001
16-May-10, 09:16
It may be that I am a prude. I do not think that I am for I am a very liberal sort of person in my views.
But truly I am getting fed up with the amount of bad language in our newspapers - and in the media generally.
There are words that I was brought up not to use in company - and indeed if the children in our family use those words they are roundly told off.
But the moral high ground seems to be disappearing from under our feet as our great national dailies regularly use language that I am no stranger to, but imho should not be appearing in the national press.
Some years ago I shrugged when one of the big broadsheets began to use the F word on a regular basis- and now they use the C word, which as far as I am concerned is a great social taboo and never to be used out of context, and never in polite mix of people.
Look I have worked on farms and warehouses and building sites and have done my fair share of effing and blinding, but it seems to me and always has that there is a line where you just become a pottymouth.
And that is crude and unimaginative.
Some of our high flying journalists seem to use 'words' these days as a way of getting attention like a naughty little child, just for effect, then stepping back with a smile to see what the reaction will be to their dropping a whoopsie. Comedians often do the same.
And if you object then you are thought illiberal.
I am getting a little fed up with moral relativism lately - and perhaps more intolerant as I get older- but I think using swearwords and stuff society still sees as filthy language in newspapers is irresponsible, degrades our cultural life, and gives the wrong example to young people.
And I think they should exercise some responsibility and stop it.
So I think I will write to the editor of the Guardian and tell him why I am not going to buy his paper any more.
OK - so I'm a Fascist - sue me!
Totally agree and well done for having the courage to post on this subject given how the so-called liberals in our society are forever shouting people down for having such opinions.
Swearing is something that has been gradually creeping into the newspapers, and has been in films and on TV for decades, but it's getting worse - you can't even watch an ordinary cop show nowadays without hearing some kind of bad language (you know it's called bad language for a reason!).
To me, swearing is something you do when you are really frustrated or whatever - it helps to vent your feelings. But if you use those words all the time, and if you see and hear them all the time in the media, they lose their potency and power. Then you might as well be using words like "cripes", "piffle" and other such laughable upper-class inanities, for all the power the swear words will have. Maybe our language is changing and things like swearing are becoming more commonplace and acceptable, but change is not always good or right.
I'm fed up with the so-called liberals saying we should be more tolerant of everything. I agree that we should be more tolerant of a great many things that have been condemned or simply not tolerated in the past, but that doesn't mean we should have to be more tolerant of things that degrade or demean our society. We should take pride in our society, and decency and morality should be seen as desirable and not, as happens most of the time now, something to be sneered at. And I don't mean the kind of morality the Victorians had that condemned everything that wasn't seen as normal, I just mean common decency and consideration for our fellow human beings, many of whom really don't appreciate reading bad language over their cornflakes of a morning or listening to, as John beautifully puts it, "pottymouths" on the bus on the way to work.
Just a thought, but why is it that these liberal types are so tolerant of everything except those who disagree with them? ;)
OK, now I wait for those who think it's clever to bully people into silence, to start accusing me of being a prude or a facist or whatever......:roll:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5356324522814393631#
I was always taught that bad language was what people used who were too small minded to voice their opinion eloquently. It makes me cringe when people use expletives as interjections!
porshiepoo
16-May-10, 10:38
I must admit to swearing too much. I don't do it loads but what I do do is still too much.
I hate hearing my kids swear as well and to their credit they don't generally do it in front of me (just as I would never swear in front of my mum).
We change words around so they mean the same but aren't as offensive. e.g Instead of the offensive 'F' word they'll say frick or instead of cows**t they'll say cowsquirt (that's a new one) and instead of s**t they'll say schmoo.
Doesn't work for everyone and they don't do it alot, it's usually when they've been distracted and started a swear word they'll change it.
Unlike JL, I've never read the F or C words in newspapers, though I rarely buy newspapers these days. If you're offended John, contact the editor pointing out there is no need to print the whole word, that they can be masked, we are all intelligent enough to work out what the word is.
I swear perhaps a little too much, though I never use the C word, it makes me cringe when I hear it. Unfortunately, I've upset someone at work and a few days ago he etched it onto my bootlid, deep enough that I'll need to have the whole bootlid resprayed. :(
ohh im a bit of a swearer! :o I dont mean to do it, it just comes out sometimes!
Well I think that's one time you can be forgiven for swearing, it is very annoying.
There's nothing wrong with swearing if it comes from the heart. Lets face it. We all have it in our heads. It's a question of morality. Freds link to the Frank Zappa debate was interesting. It's all very well for a millionaire rock star to advocate freedom of speech but when that freedom ignores responsibility to the cultural morality of its society then their stance needs challenged.
That's all! There's no need for censorship just challenge and then the true human morality will come out in the washing.
The fact that swear words are being used on a regular basis in our newspapers and on the telly needs applauded, not because I agree with it, because I am as fixed to my societies standards as the rest of us, but because I believe it's all part of the evolutionary process and who can stop that?
John Little
16-May-10, 13:26
Ok - so the Zappa interview is very eloquent in its advocacy that it's all just words. Total moral relativism.
Fine - so if he's right, why don't we just throw it all out of the window and teach kids to use the words as normal.
There really is no such thing as swearing.
Is there?
I dont think Zappa was particularly eloquent but he was comfortable with the subject. Thats the difference between him and those of us who come over all Mary Whitehouse when we hear bad language although we are prone to use it ourselves. Whats wrong with people using bad language to accurately report something that happened? Even if the offending words are masked as soon as we see the masking we know exactly the word they were talking about. Just thinking about them in our heads gives them power and I believe it would be better to acknowledge our own use of the words rather than condemn others who use them more freely.
First time I read your post John I didnt pay much attention when you called Zappas position total moral relativism. Probably because I didnt know what it meant. I still dont but whatever it is it's provocative.
That was a good clip from Fred. Very thought provoking and similar to Fred himself in his stance.
Pepsis post was good too. His embarressment for the lassie who was swearing reminds me of how easy it is to get tied up in other peoples lives and judge them by some deeper moral position than the standards I give myself. I must admit when I hear them speaking like that, I think about me at that age, and feel sorry for the shocks in store for them.
I was visiting an elderly couple just last week and we were having a good discussion about something and I suddenly used the f word. I was horrified and apoligised immediatley and they just laughed. It was odd and I hope it doesnt keep happening. :lol:
Zappas right, it is only words but words determine how we will feel about ourselves and eachother so they're use needs to be considered.
Its a human thing.
If I was a parrot I wouldnt have to worry about it.
John Little
16-May-10, 15:46
By moral relativism I mean that what we call 'moral' is measured against a notional standard that society sets. In this case 'bad' language is measured against a standard of morality that is still kept to by people teaching their children not to use certain words and some washing their mouths out if they do.
So what is 'bad' is relative to that standard.
If you take away the standard and start saying it's all hypocritical nonsense, then that form of morality ceases to exist. People should be free to use what words they wish. They are 'only' words.
Yet language has a certain weight and power.....
A useful comparison is drugs which society/ government make illegal. Yet some drugs are legal.
Yet people own themselves - it's their bodies, so if they choose to take smack etc surely it is their choice - if you take the illegality away. So why not just legalise the lot, regulate it and tax it?
So to return to my thread - if there is no such thing as 'bad' language and the standard relates to outdated morality, is it desirable to sweep it all away?
And if not - then why not?
I agree with John Little that bad language in print should not be treated as if it is normal or acceptable. But is this not the way that society has gone in general? Hollywood has promoted disintegrating society for years. what about tv? Soap operas and reality tv are quite vile and depressing now. Magazines? Have you tzken notice of what youngsters can view these days as mens mags in any newsagent? Is this what people want? Is this the view of women that women want?
It is very sad that we need to have this discussion, but buck up chaps, there are still bastions of moral hope. Try swearing on this org and see where it gets you. I have the infractions to remind me :Razz
John Little
16-May-10, 17:33
Well yes - that is very much to the point. If morality is a relative thing and it's only words, then it does not matter if you swear on the Org.
On the other hand it's 'House rules' and the prevailing morality says that you don't swear.
So has morality become a localised thing depending on particular conditions?
You don't swear in front of your gran, or your parents.....
I actually have come to think, reading all this stuff, that it's a much wider issue than just words.
The Drunken Duck
16-May-10, 17:33
Bear in mind that if you don't swear, smoke, drink, look at pictures of naked women and generally avoid anything that the self appointed moral guardians deem unacceptable then this is what you turn into .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8&feature=related
And that clip isn't a joke. Or a parody. Those were ACTUAL people who really believe what they are singing. And God let one of them choke to death on a sandwich after they wrote that, some mate he was.
So is swearing REALLY that bad compared to the alternative ?? .. :eek:
I swear perhaps a little too much, though I never use the C word, it makes me cringe when I hear it. Unfortunately, I've upset someone at work and a few days ago he etched it onto my bootlid, deep enough that I'll need to have the whole bootlid resprayed. :(
Look on the bright side.
He has saved you the bother of buying a personalised reg. plate
Swearing is a sign of weakness.
John Little
16-May-10, 17:48
Morality was around long before Jesus you don't have to be a Holy Joe to feel uncomfortable about swearing being publicly acceptable.
Perhaps it's about compartmentalisation; what is appropriate in the conditions you find yourself in. Like Golach I get uncomfortable when I hear young girls effing and blinding; but why?
Maybe it has to do with manners and a social code of behaviour towards each other.
I think it was John Donne who said 'Manners Makyth Man' and imho he was right. The thing that distinguishes people from animals is that we have manners and have evolved modes of behaviour towards each other over many years.
A bunch of chimps jumping up and down screeching uncontrollably is not mannered- it is just animal.
Perhaps manners is about self-control, and that in recognising the power of certain words and their intended meanings, we exercise self-constraint when we use them?
Words are not just 'words' - they have loading and meaning.
The most simple example, much bandied round this last week is 'Democracy'. Try agreeing on a meaning for that then arguing that it's just a word.
Similarly the words we deem 'filthy' or 'bad' have meaning. They exist because they have evolved with taboos going back, in some cases, centuries.
If they are just words, and we remove the taboos then it may be a fine and good thing to do- like burning bras or dancing on tables- wheeeeeee!
But why do those taboos exist?
And if we remove them - what other taboos should we remove?
You don't swear in front of your gran, or your parents.....
You do when you've got Tourette syndrome.
You do when you've got Tourette syndrome.
Now thats sad!!!! making light of a really traumatic disorder [disgust]
John Little
16-May-10, 18:04
Maybe that's it Fred. Practically everyone in society today has developed Tourettes!
Word!
Very deep!!!:eek:
Maybe that's it Fred. Practically everyone in society today has developed Tourettes!
Word!
Very deep!!!:eek:
So do you think someone with Tourettes is a bad person?
Should their grandmother be offended?
Or are they just words?
You do when you've got Tourette syndrome.
Now thats sad!!!! making light of a really traumatic disorder [disgust]
How can you possible construe from Fred's post that he is making light of Tourette syndrome?
How can you possible construe from Fred's post that he is making light of Tourette syndrome?
It's how the clique bullies work, they just try to turn everything into a personal attack against me.
John Little
16-May-10, 19:17
So do you think someone with Tourettes is a bad person?
Should their grandmother be offended?
Or are they just words?
1 I did not say so.
2 She may well be, but will recognise that all is not well
3 No - they are a symptom.
And lastly - this is displacement from the main thrust of what I was saying. The main question is rather more begging an answer.
Flippancy does not answer....
1 I did not say so.
2 She may well be, but will recognise that all is not well
3 No - they are a symptom.
And lastly - this is displacement from the main thrust of what I was saying. The main question is rather more begging an answer.
Flippancy does not answer....
It seems straight forwards to me, swear words are just words. If they are said to be offensive then they are offensive just the same as any other word is. If they aren't intended to be offensive then they aren't. The offence is in the person saying and the person listening, not in the word.
John Little
16-May-10, 19:55
Oh come on Fred - you can do better than that! By your standards that's a cop-out.
If that's 'all' then why the fuss? Why would Dadie and Wifie not allow their kids to merrily F and Blind for all they are worth?
Why do teachers, parents, grandparents etc tell their kids not to swear?
Why is bad language 'bad'
If these words are so neutral why don't we just use them merrily all over the place?
Or maybe you do?
Oh come on Fred - you can do better than that! By your standards that's a cop-out.
If that's 'all' then why the fuss? Why would Dadie and Wifie not allow their kids to merrily F and Blind for all they are worth?
Why do teachers, parents, grandparents etc tell their kids not to swear?
Why is bad language 'bad'
If these words are so neutral why don't we just use them merrily all over the place?
Or maybe you do?
It's purely conditioning, there is no difference between a swear word and any other word.
People have been conditioned to believe that a four letter word which describes an act which is vital to the survival of the species, as well as being fun, is bad. While four letter words like "kill" or "maim" are perfectly acceptable in polite conversation.
John Little
16-May-10, 20:11
Right - now you are cooking. My wife is about to require my company, but I have time to ask you a question.
If swearing and bad language are just conditioning in humans to regard these words as Taboo, then does the same thing apply to other social taboos?
And if it does, should we be so ready to sweep those taboos away as we apparently are sweeping away the swearing taboo?
I assume that they came into existence for a reason; but so far nobody has told me why - and nobody has told me why they are being swept away and stuff once confined to barrack rooms and building sites is now acceptable in provincial high streets and in the mouths of young children.
And where do you stop sweeping away taboos?
Until they can understand what the words mean and understand what that is (f word etc) it is not acceptable to use the words.
Right - now you are cooking. My wife is about to require my company, but I have time to ask you a question.
If swearing and bad language are just conditioning in humans to regard these words as Taboo, then does the same thing apply to other social taboos?
And if it does, should we be so ready to sweep those taboos away as we apparently are sweeping away the swearing taboo?
I assume that they came into existence for a reason; but so far nobody has told me why - and nobody has told me why they are being swept away and stuff once confined to barrack rooms and building sites is now acceptable in provincial high streets and in the mouths of young children.
And where do you stop sweeping away taboos?
Well your taboo does seem rather counter productive. We all know people who use an expletive between every other word and I can only assume they do it because the word is taboo. These ancient Anglo Saxon words would probably have fallen out of common usage by now if they hadn't been taboo.
Just managed to get Iona (now 2) to stop saying f the cat round the house when asked where is Frodo.....
She doesnt understand the word is bad or what it means, but, I know it is my fault for saying that in the 1st place.... but it was under unusual circumstances and she picked it up straight away....
I was in the car on my way to CGH to have Euan and my hubby asked what will we do with the cat if we have to go to Raigmore....my answer...was picked up by my littlest girl as both girls were in the car as my mum and dad were meeting us at the hospital to collect them!
But there is 1 little boy at nursery with Lauren who says bad words as normal conversation.... thats not right, is it?
John Little
16-May-10, 21:36
Well your taboo does seem rather counter productive. We all know people who use an expletive between every other word and I can only assume they do it because the word is taboo. These ancient Anglo Saxon words would probably have fallen out of common usage by now if they hadn't been taboo.
It's not my taboo Fred. It is a social taboo. What I am asking is why it exists in the first place?
Just managed to get Iona (now 2) to stop saying f the cat round the house when asked where is Frodo.....
She doesnt understand the word is bad or what it means, but, I know it is my fault for saying that in the 1st place.... but it was under unusual circumstances and she picked it up straight away....
I was in the car on my way to CGH to have Euan and my hubby asked what will we do with the cat if we have to go to Raigmore....my answer...was picked up by my littlest girl as both girls were in the car as my mum and dad were meeting us at the hospital to collect them!
But there is 1 little boy at nursery with Lauren who says bad words as normal conversation.... thats not right, is it?
It probably is not right. But again, if it just words then it does not matter.
I think I'm coming round to the view that these things are there for a purpose and that the purpose is to set benchmarks for civilised behaviour. Because 'civilisation' plays by rules which require certain behaviours from their members. One of those conditions is courtesy and so a code of manners, of dos and don'ts has evolved over many years.
And if we sweep it away then we get something else. A society that we are not comfortable with.
Maybe the next generation will be comfortable with it and swear with abandon.
Then they'll start on the other taboos. Drugs, incest etc....
Just managed to get Iona (now 2) to stop saying f the cat round the house when asked where is Frodo.....
She doesnt understand the word is bad or what it means, but, I know it is my fault for saying that in the 1st place.... but it was under unusual circumstances and she picked it up straight away....
I was in the car on my way to CGH to have Euan and my hubby asked what will we do with the cat if we have to go to Raigmore....my answer...was picked up by my littlest girl as both girls were in the car as my mum and dad were meeting us at the hospital to collect them!
But there is 1 little boy at nursery with Lauren who says bad words as normal conversation.... thats not right, is it?
If you are happy to ignore your pets when they become inconvenient (under any circumstances) then you should not be allowed to keep pets. This, to me, is far more important than all this blethering about swearing[disgust]
It's not my taboo Fred. It is a social taboo. What I am asking is why it exists in the first place?
It probably is not right. But again, if it just words then it does not matter.
I think I'm coming round to the view that these things are there for a purpose and that the purpose is to set benchmarks for civilised behaviour. Because 'civilisation' plays by rules which require certain behaviours from their members. One of those conditions is courtesy and so a code of manners, of dos and don'ts has evolved over many years.
And if we sweep it away then we get something else. A society that we are not comfortable with.
Maybe the next generation will be comfortable with it and swear with abandon.
Then they'll start on the other taboos. Drugs, incest etc....
The same civilisation that sends soldiers to kill farmers? A perspective injection is needed me thinks.
John Little
16-May-10, 21:50
Now you are turning this into a Meta issue- a theatre in which I am sure there will be participants but it don't answer my question.
There have always been wars and probably always will be and soldiers will kill farmers as they have for 10,000 years.
But my question is surely a simple one.
Why does the swearing taboo exist, and what happens if we sweep it away?
On perspective - I did not create this taboo. It exists.
So how about some perspective on it?
Now you are turning this into a Meta issue- a theatre in which I am sure there will be participants but it don't answer my question.
There have always been wars and probably always will be and soldiers will kill farmers as they have for 10,000 years.
But my question is surely a simple one.
Why does the swearing taboo exist, and what happens if we sweep it away?
I think, what I was actually trying to say is: Who cares? and nothing!
John Little
16-May-10, 21:55
I think, what I was actually trying to say is: Who cares? and nothing!
Well plenty of people obviously care or it would not be a taboo, there would be no infractions and we need not bother telling kids off for swearing.
Why do THEY care - I know you don't- but what about those who do?
And if nothing happens then swearing becomes a null issue - obsolete as toenails.
So.............. who's going to be first to start?
I was not abandoning my pets in any circumstances!
A neighbour had a key and was willing to look after the animals and he knew that a unexpected trip might be on the cards, cat, had been fed, inside and warm with a littertray!
5:30am was not the time to phone...and Frodo would have been happy until 5:30pm when its dinnertime.
There would have been plenty of time to phone at a more socially accepted hour!
Dont really know why im justifying myself.
but I am thinking of some swearwords now!!
lets just say when in labour and the roads are bad the last thing I wanted to be questioned about was the cat.
It's not my taboo Fred. It is a social taboo. What I am asking is why it exists in the first place?
I wouldn't mind betting that, as usual, the Church had something to do with it. They didn't seem to have these hang ups in Saxon or Viking times.
They may have had different hang ups, in China it was considered disrespectful to use any syllable in the Emperor's name. The entire language had to change to exclude them with each new Emperor. Sounds silly to us now, no doubt as silly as our hang ups would seem to them.
Whitewater
16-May-10, 22:33
I have enjoyed reading through this thread, I swear myself on the odd occasion (when I'm loosing at at bowls) but I don't swear at people, just the bowls, but they don't listen.
Perhaps we should be like the bowls and not listen when we hear people swearing for no reason. I don't approve of it, but I tend to think that in certain circumstances it helps to vent anger, stops us from building up too much stress and exploding.
When I hear young people swearing all the time I'm not impresed, but I do not get angry either, it is generally not their fault, it is just what they have been used to hearing from family and friends, teenagers will generally grow out of it, just another stage of growng up and finding out what is acceptable. However, I am of the opinion that there is no place for it in the media, it should be setting standards in language that we can look up to, not standards that we look down upon and which unfortunately seem to impress our children and some senior members of society as well.
You do when you've got Tourette syndrome.
Nice one fred, nearly split my sides laughing. I guess it must be my warped sense of humour.
ShelleyCowie
16-May-10, 23:34
If you are happy to ignore your pets when they become inconvenient (under any circumstances) then you should not be allowed to keep pets. This, to me, is far more important than all this blethering about swearing[disgust]
What sort of thing is that to say! She was in labour! Gosh have you not heard that when a woman is in labour she can say whatever she wants.
Pets are not completely dependant you know, they can be left for a short period of time on their own. Jings.
Dont think your comment was completely necessary, but before someone says it. Your entitled to say it.
What sort of thing is that to say! She was in labour! Gosh have you not heard that when a woman is in labour she can say whatever she wants.
Pets are not completely dependant you know, they can be left for a short period of time on their own. Jings.
Dont think your comment was completely necessary, but before someone says it. Your entitled to say it.
Just making a point, you would be amazed how many animals are abandoned once a new baby appears. And no, I have no experience of women in labour.
ShelleyCowie
16-May-10, 23:40
Just making a point, you would be amazed how many animals are abandoned once a new baby appears. And no, I have no experience of women in labour.
I understand that ducati. Dont think Dadie meant it in the way that she would abandon her animal just because of a new baby.
U lucky thing, no man wants to experience a woman in labour! [lol]
no man wants to experience a woman in labour!
:eek::eek::eek:
When I was younger I use to think like this, but have changed my mind. Its an acceptable part of the language to use.
These people that decry it and launch campaigns against it, seriously don't understand the language or linguistics in general.
I'm also quite annoyed that those of us without children have to tiptoe around those with, if you've got a kid and you don't like something on TV. Then be a responsible parent, don't ask for it to be censored.
EDIT: Perhaps Stephen Fry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM) or Penn and Teller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGqviRXfCYo) might influence you, more than I can.
EDIT2: I think the taboo aspect dates back to medieval times, when the belief that certain utterances could have physical affects on the body or world permeated. Lots of things that use to be taboo aren't any more. For example saying breast or thigh (when referring to chicken) hence the use of dark and white meat.
David Banks
17-May-10, 21:13
I happen to have the great good fortune to be living with my daughter and her family at the moment, which includes my 4-and-a-bit year old grandaughter.
My grandaughter copies and learns from everything any adult says.
I WILL NOT be cussing and swearing around her - end of story.
If she happens to be near me next winter and I slip on the ice (as I did last winter), and she hears me yell, I will go further and try to dissuade her from repeating what I said.
Any objections? -- take your best shot.
Grandad
redeyedtreefrog
17-May-10, 21:17
The very word profanity comes from the word profane, which used to mean not belonging to the church.
Margaret M.
18-May-10, 04:06
If you are happy to ignore your pets when they become inconvenient (under any circumstances) then you should not be allowed to keep pets. This, to me, is far more important than all this blethering about swearing
Ah Ducati, you've obviously never been in labour. During natural childbirth, the F word is probably uttered more than any other. :D
Ah Ducati, you've obviously never been in labour.
:eek::eek::eek:
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