View Full Version : NHS cuts
Horror story- my neighbour here in Hampstead who is quite heavily pregnant has had to sign up to a private clinic- her midwife has just taken voluntary redundancy. I have a friend in Caithness who's been told that she'll need a lot of help when her due date comes- and she's wondering if CGH will still have the full ob/gyn team in September- word is out that maternity services are the first to be targeted
Boozeburglar
13-May-10, 22:50
She would be going to Inverness if she is predicted to need a lot of assistance.
Yes of course Boozeburglar. We all know that, apart from Bagpuss who left us in a strop a few years ago and labelled us all "hicks" or some such thing. :)
My daughter is due in september and she is booked into raigmore, she was told she has to go to raigmore 2 weeks b4 her due date, :confused
Boozeburglar
13-May-10, 23:58
congrats rs 2k, they do a good job there.
ShelleyCowie
14-May-10, 01:06
Unfortunately CGH doesnt have the medical assistance needed for the high risk mums. Im also due in September and dont want to go to Inverness, also opted for a c-section as i had one with my first 18 months ago but the obsteotrician just kinda laughed at me :eek: So still dont know whats happening!
Makes me furios that there cannot be proper care for those that are pregant in Caithness..surely the county deserves a proper service and shipping folk down to Inverness can not be economically viable.
Makes me furios that there cannot be proper care for those that are pregant in Caithness..surely the county deserves a proper service and shipping folk down to Inverness can not be economically viable.
It is shocking and the stress and worry for pregnant mums, especially if they have other children, must be very bad for them. If management had any sense there would be more midwives trained for home births where mums can be relaxed and have fewer problems, plus a proper dept. in CGH to cover emergencies and complications. How on earth can we attract businesses up here when we can't offer basic facilities?
Funny thing - when it was suggested ages ago that patients travel up from Inverness for underused services up here it was suddenly too far to travel [disgust]
The Pepsi Challenge
14-May-10, 15:13
From NHS dentists to maternity units, from post offices to driving tests, from over-the-odds postal charges to cinema to god knows what else - again, geography has the last laugh. Is this really the 21st century?
Alice in Blunderland
14-May-10, 18:53
It is shocking and the stress and worry for pregnant mums, especially if they have other children, must be very bad for them. If management had any sense there would be more midwives trained for home births where mums can be relaxed and have fewer problems, plus a proper dept. in CGH to cover emergencies and complications. How on earth can we attract businesses up here when we can't offer basic facilities?
Staff employed to wait around in case of emergencies would be seen as not a good use of money or resources. You cannot expect fully trained midwife's to stay in an area where there services are not going to be used and if you send them out into the community there would be no-one in the hospital to attend the emergencies.
:)
Couldn't a 'rota' system work, NHS staff from the big hospitals could do a stint in the remote hospitals and remote staff could do a stint in a big hospital and come back with more experience under their belt.
It wouldn't work for staff who have families settled or personal reasons to remain where they are, but some might like the opportunity to experience working in a different area/environment.
Time for the action group to regroup then?
last time it was the locals who prevented the run down of the maternity services- are they up for a similar fight to protect facilities?
lets look at another scneario- in London you can't always guarantee that an ambulance will take you to the nearest hospital if you're hit by a bus- but you will get to A&E in a limited time. remote parts of the highlands tend to be covered by air ambulance which take you to Raigmore. But in Caithness - 2 hour drive by ambulance at least- the services should be in place- running them down puts lives at risk- yet the new government are targetting maternity and nursing before other areas of public spending.
this from a man whose own wife is pregnant- as of course we all know- wasn't she is main asset? her private maternity clinic is the same one my neighbour is booked into now
From NHS dentists to maternity units, from post offices to driving tests, from over-the-odds postal charges to cinema to god knows what else - again, geography has the last laugh. Is this really the 21st century?
Come to Caithness for a swift exit then? The Dignitas of the UK? The only place where one might commit suicide simply by not getting treatment for anything?
Alice in Blunderland
14-May-10, 21:41
Couldn't a 'rota' system work, NHS staff from the big hospitals could do a stint in the remote hospitals and remote staff could do a stint in a big hospital and come back with more experience under their belt.
It wouldn't work for staff who have families settled or personal reasons to remain where they are, but some might like the opportunity to experience working in a different area/environment.
You cant make them come to Caithness.
A clause in certain peoples contracts to rotate in rural Caithness will make the job less attractive and therefore more difficult to recruit. Most people live where they work and want to base themselves there not 100 miles away this would be unworkable to people in this field where morale is already very low.
ShelleyCowie
14-May-10, 21:44
Thing is, even though the maternity unit in Wick is trying to downgrade or whatever, the midwifes and nurses still do an excellent job! Infact all staff i have ever met there do an excellent job and always bleather away fine.
Yes in the future i would love for the maternity unit to go back to running at full steam, but as Alice said, jobs in the Highlands are not desireable, unless you want to be here or live here already :confused
My daughter is due in september and she is booked into raigmore, she was told she has to go to raigmore 2 weeks b4 her due date, :confused
I know what i'd tell them! I've had to move back to caithness through no choice and i have refused to go to raigmore to have my baby. I can't travel in a car for any longer than 10 minutes at a time due to my bad back so there is no way i am going to ness. As it is i have been told that i can have my baby in wick but i wouldn't go in unless i am in labour. Had a few mishaps recently of starting and stopping so fingers crossed the next time it starts it stays.
Thing is, even though the maternity unit in Wick is trying to downgrade or whatever, the midwifes and nurses still do an excellent job! Infact all staff i have ever met there do an excellent job and always bleather away fine.
Yes in the future i would love for the maternity unit to go back to running at full steam, but as Alice said, jobs in the Highlands are not desireable, unless you want to be here or live here already :confused
Completly agree with you shelley. The midwives in CGH are brilliant. They've always put me at ease everytime we have had to go in over the last few weeks.
Yes of course Boozeburglar. We all know that, apart from Bagpuss who left us in a strop a few years ago and labelled us all "hicks" or some such thing. :)
I really don't think that Bagpuss's past actions have any bearings on his/her thread....:confused
i just want to state one thing before i say anything else.. i would go to the darkest pits of hell to have my baby if it meant that i would have a healthy baby. i dont care what the discomfort to me or any one else is.
at the end of the day, we do what we have to do not what we want. if that means that there are no services here for what ever reason, and you just dont want to go to raigmore because its an inconvienece then you are just being selfish.
all my children have had to be born in raigmore. did i want them to be? no.
did they have to be? Yes
would they have survived if born up here.. most likley not.
if you can have a prob. free preg. that is absolutly wonderful.
if you are high risk then you should be willing to do what ever is necessary to make sure that you and baby are getting the care you need.
no one wants to leave their family and children to go off a hundred miles to give birth where they are better equiped to deal with sick babies and mums.
but unfoutunatly thats the way the cookie crumbles.
im sorry if i sound really harsh, but as good as the MW and Drs are here they just do not have the support they need for special care.
and they are good here.
in fact they liase between here and raigmore all the time with mums.
i was able to be seen between here and raigmore so i wouldnt have to go down but once a month. instead of every two weeks.
i did it.. im sure a lot more moms have as well.
and at the end of the day you do what needs to be done to make sure that baby is ok..
and im sorry i have no respect for anyone who refuses to go to inverness or further when they need to because they are spoilt little girls stomping their feet wanting their own way.
I know what i'd tell them! I've had to move back to caithness through no choice and i have refused to go to raigmore to have my baby. I can't travel in a car for any longer than 10 minutes at a time due to my bad back so there is no way i am going to ness. As it is i have been told that i can have my baby in wick but i wouldn't go in unless i am in labour. Had a few mishaps recently of starting and stopping so fingers crossed the next time it starts it stays.
Don't blame u really, i had 3 of my kids in wick and it was really nice and quiet and they had time for everyone, but my daughter had her twins in raigmore and it wasn't nice, she was 16 with 2 babies, it is hard enough with 1 nevermind 2, but she got no help whatsoever, she wasn't shown anything she just had to get on with it, then after 2 days of her having a section a nurse went in her room and said we don't have time for u we r putting u to wick, so upto wick she went and what a difference, she got all the help she needed, they were brilliant with her and the babies
All i am saying is raigmore is so busy and they don't have time for everyone, my daughter doesn't mind going
If my daughter goes into labour b4 she has to go to raigmore they will let her go to cgh
She was also told if everything is fine with her and the baby she can go home after 6 hours, when i had my lot u were in for 5 to 7 days, how its all changed now :D
The maternity unit is NOT downgrading, where did that come from?
ShelleyCowie
15-May-10, 04:40
The maternity unit is NOT downgrading, where did that come from?
Ooops that might have been me that said that! Didnt mean it in that way! Meant as in how they dont do inductions anymore.
My bad! Wrong choice of wording Fran....sleep deprivation getting to me :eek:
It may not be downgrading, but with one consultant and a locum just now, it certainly not up to full strength. Least said about the locum the better.
There was a vacant consultant Gynaecology/Obstetric post but that has been filled.
The midwifery staffing position has improved with staff returning from long term sick leave. The unit is still transferring low risk inductions to Raigmore.thats all.
Nothing to cause any concern at all and certainly not downgrading.
aburns2409
15-May-10, 11:37
I agree witht the above post i had 3 of my 5 babies in Wick - brilliant one on one care - in Inverness it is like being lambed - different midwives in every ward then complete new ones in the labour ward -
My last one had to go to Aberdeen - the hospital is discusting - some staff nice - some not - The one thing i will say is raigmore has a great SCBU staff - my fourt 8 weeks early we spent nearly 4 weeks there and my 5th 13 weeks early 4 weeks in Aberdeen then 6 weeks in raigmore the staff were brilliant - clean hospital (saying that my wee one contracted group B strep whilst in Intensive care) however much cleaner then aberdeen...
I always mind with my first child - being 14 in Wick i was treated differently if i was in raigmore big place less judgemental and less gossip - at the end of the day as Brandy said as long as your baby is healthy or well cared for if there are problems then that is all that matters.... xx
peter macdonald
15-May-10, 13:43
You cant make them come to Caithness.
A clause in certain peoples contracts to rotate in rural Caithness will make the job less attractive and therefore more difficult to recruit. Most people live where they work and want to base themselves there not 100 miles away this would be unworkable to people in this field where morale is already very low.
Toys out the pram time
Who ever negotiated those contracts with "certain staff" want their bottom booted ..This is the NHS ...we pay for it!! Staff from up here are/have been asked to travel to Inverness for meetings cover other jobs for years...so why cant the premadonnas in Inverness come up here?? The road is the same length on each side of the carriageway ...As for a waste of resources perhaps if the NHS got rid of the dunt of power dressed under managers who swan about there would not be such a demand for frontline services to be cut... As for having low morale ..perhaps they should look out side and ask people who have no pay rises in the last 2-3 years or worse have lost their jobs what they think ???
Sara Jevo
15-May-10, 14:31
Makes me furios that there cannot be proper care for those that are pregant in Caithness..surely the county deserves a proper service and shipping folk down to Inverness can not be economically viable.
It's comments like these that make me furious!
There IS proper care for pregnant mothers in Caithness.
What the area doesn't have - and never will have unless the population jumps ten-fold - is intensive care or high dependency.
So if you are high risk, you'll be asked to move to the nearest high-risk unit. If something goes wrong, you'll have the higher level of medical treatment available immediately. What's wrong with that? It's called putting the safety of the patient first.
This area is no different from any other.
It has a level of service appropriate for its population.
You simply cannot have every service located in every hospital - that is totally unaffordable.
Should we also have a brain surgery unit at Wick, a cancer treatment department, a burns unit etc etc?
I wish people would stop denigrating the service that the hospital in wick provides - the staff there do a super job.
Alice in Blunderland
15-May-10, 16:36
Toys out the pram time
Who ever negotiated those contracts with "certain staff" want their bottom booted ..This is the NHS ...we pay for it!! Staff from up here are/have been asked to travel to Inverness for meetings cover other jobs for years...so why cant the premadonnas in Inverness come up here?? The road is the same length on each side of the carriageway ...As for a waste of resources perhaps if the NHS got rid of the dunt of power dressed under managers who swan about there would not be such a demand for frontline services to be cut... As for having low morale ..perhaps they should look out side and ask people who have no pay rises in the last 2-3 years or worse have lost their jobs what they think ???
Its not a case of toys out of the pram.
Staff do come up to work in this hospital visiting, attending meetings and doing clinics, okay so they don't stay and work on the wards but how can this be made possible we have limited resources?
No matter what way you dress the job up or down you cannot make people
come and work somewhere they do not wish to no matter who is going to be paying them.
We have difficulty recruiting end off..... be it Doctors or Consultants. More junior staff is slightly easier however you need a full team to deliver the service.
Lump us in with another hospital forcing staff to work in different locations 100 miles apart then you will have the effect of that hospital having difficulty recruiting. It just isn't workable in current climates. :)
This is a bitter pill we have to swallow but from a career point of view Caithness is not seen as a forward step believe me!
The road may be the same length in both directions but the end destination could not be more different Wick, Caithness General / Inverness, Raigmore Hospital/ Aberdeen, Aberdeen Royal Infirmary.
As for managers swanning around :roll: nuff said !!
peter macdonald
15-May-10, 17:40
They are my toys and I will through them if I want!! :-)
OK Alice How many layers of managers are there for example in the "hotel" dept??? add in Wick and the staff in Inverness??
I am old enough to remember the Bignold being run by Matron Miss Stamp with Gladys Kidd and 2 others doing admin...and it was done very well
Your point about recruiting people should not be a relevant matter ...The employer is the NHS and the contract should be for the UK (or Scotland depending on devolution)....If people dont want employment then so much for medical staffs thoughts of helping people !!
As for not attracting people of the correct calibre ....Sorry but I think Pradip Datta puts that argument to shame ,would you not agree??
My point about morale ...since I posted earlier I was speaking to a couple of young kids who have lost their jobs at Nicolsons recently....now THEY had low morale
What gets me and a heck of a lot of others is that whenever NHS cuts are mentioned, the front line get it ,,Nurses , Auxilaries or Cleaners (and is that already happening at CGH OR is it not?? )
Take time and look and look at this link re NHS Highland wages.
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1566007?UserKey=
£160000 is a fair amount of nurses wages isnt it .....and i know who I would prefer my money going to.....especially when they made such a pigs ear of running the trust they were running a £3m dept !!
"Lump us in with another hospital forcing staff to work in different locations 100 miles apart then you will have the effect of that hospital having difficulty recruiting. It just isn't workable in current climates."
Maybe true about 1970 but all the utilities do this, the council, social work and every private company I know do this... and if some one who has a job does not want to do move about within the terms of their contract it says sod all for the individuals commitment does it???
PM
Take a look at WBGs car mileage if you dont believe me re job mobility
Alice in Blunderland
15-May-10, 18:53
Your point about recruiting people should not be a relevant matter ...The employer is the NHS and the contract should be for the UK (or Scotland depending on devolution)....If people dont want employment then so much for medical staffs thoughts of helping people !!
There is currently a shortage of Doctors in the UK many posts remain unfilled so if the medical staff want to pick and choose due to quantity of jobs available unfortunately they can.
As for not attracting people of the correct calibre ....Sorry but I think Pradip Datta puts that argument to shame ,would you not agree??
Lucky Pradip, whom I have the greatest respect for. He came when immigration was letting Asian doctors more easily into this country many may not know but the immigration rules have tightened hugely in this area.
My point about morale ...since I posted earlier I was speaking to a couple of young kids who have lost their jobs at Nicolsons recently....now THEY had low morale
What gets me and a heck of a lot of others is that whenever NHS cuts are mentioned, the front line get it ,,Nurses , Auxilaries or Cleaners (and is that already happening at CGH OR is it not?? )
Yes it is ! and this is unfair it is the same in all these large organisations take a look at Education its teachers and pupils that are taking the brunt of the cuts is it not ? I am not agreeing with what is happening and have no answer as to how to stop it apart from down tools and strike these organisations all need a cleaner.
Take time and look and look at this link re NHS Highland wages.
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1566007?UserKey=
£160000 is a fair amount of nurses wages isnt it .....and i know who I would prefer my money going to.....especially when they made such a pigs ear of running the trust they were running a £3m dept !!
I agree pay awards should be the same percentage across the board from the most senior down to the most junior however when its management that are involved with their own pay awards then this is wrong and should be addressed immediately, who knows maybe in all this some of these hugely inflated wages will be brought into line.
"Lump us in with another hospital forcing staff to work in different locations 100 miles apart then you will have the effect of that hospital having difficulty recruiting. It just isn't workable in current climates."
Maybe true about 1970 but all the utilities do this, the council, social work and every private company I know do this... and if some one who has a job does not want to do move about within the terms of their contract it says sod all for the individuals commitment does it???
PM
Take a look at WBGs car mileage if you dont believe me re job mobility
Its a case of supply and demand unfortunately WBG is chasing contracts along with many others and the people with the work can pick and choose who gets the contracts.
Its the other way round hospitals are in need of staff and they can pick and choose where they go depending on if the job and contract suits.
onecalledk
15-May-10, 19:32
Couldn't a 'rota' system work, NHS staff from the big hospitals could do a stint in the remote hospitals and remote staff could do a stint in a big hospital and come back with more experience under their belt.
It wouldn't work for staff who have families settled or personal reasons to remain where they are, but some might like the opportunity to experience working in a different area/environment.
This is how it happens at the moment as skills have to be kept up to date so midwives have to have up to date skills in various disciplines. They would have to go and work at a hospital that dealt with certain types of births (not just straight forward deliveries) to achieve these skills updates.
Raigmore hospital deals with high risk pregnancies, anything they cant deal with or out of the norm would involve the mother travelling to Aberdeen which is a specialist unit. I dont think it is to do with geography it is how well the different hospitals are equiped.
There are hospitals on the outer islands who are just as equipped as raigmore due to the fact that if there was any adverse weather the mother and medical team would not be able to leave the island.
K
onecalledk
15-May-10, 19:40
in response to all those calling for greater services by the nhs etc in this area, the population of the area dictates the facilities in that area. With regard to the maternity unit there is NOT enough births in the caithness area to equate to high level services, the birth rate is declining in this area.
Same for doctors, consultants etc. The caithness population is small compared to Inverness or Aberdeen where high dependancy and specialist units are located. If for example you lived in Elgin you would be sent to Aberdeen for any complicated tests or births.
K
ShelleyCowie
15-May-10, 19:43
Dont want to contradict anything i have already said, but just wondering why the maternity unit in wick wont enduce a woman anymore even if they are low risk? :confused
Just a query... :Razz
Alice in Blunderland
15-May-10, 20:09
Dont want to contradict anything i have already said, but just wondering why the maternity unit in wick wont enduce a woman anymore even if they are low risk? :confused
Just a query... :Razz
At a guess induction increases the risk factor :confused of something going wrong.
Sara Jevo
16-May-10, 07:29
At a guess induction increases the risk factor :confused of something going wrong.
I believe they had a number of problems due to a shortage of midwives and problems with consultants. They had some "near misses" with patients that resulted in the risk threshold being lowered at Wick until they could be sorted out. So, whereas before they would have allowed some low-medium risk cases to be handled at wick, for the time being it's only low-risk cases. It's reassuring in one sense - that the safety of the patient came first - but worrying in another in just how fragile the service is.
ShelleyCowie
16-May-10, 09:08
At a guess induction increases the risk factor :confused of something going wrong.
I believe they had a number of problems due to a shortage of midwives and problems with consultants. They had some "near misses" with patients that resulted in the risk threshold being lowered at Wick until they could be sorted out. So, whereas before they would have allowed some low-medium risk cases to be handled at wick, for the time being it's only low-risk cases. It's reassuring in one sense - that the safety of the patient came first - but worrying in another in just how fragile the service is.
ok thanks for that :Razz
("Lump us in with another hospital forcing staff to work in different locations 100 miles apart then you will have the effect of that hospital having difficulty recruiting. It just isn't workable in current climates."
Maybe true about 1970 but all the utilities do this, the council, social work and every private company I know do this... and if some one who has a job does not want to do move about within the terms of their contract it says sod all for the individuals commitment does it???) PM
I find it amazing that you question doctors and nurses commitment! I also find it amazing that you wopuld expect anyone to move around the whole of highland or further, regularly with this kind of job. What about continuity of care for patients what about maintaining and developing the skills of staff, these would be difficult if people had to keep moving. I'm also sure that no matter what line of work you are in, to be moved around and either separated from your family or to keep moving them would not do much for boosting the retention of staff or are doctors and nurses not allowed a family life!
Everyone focuses on maternity, but if you need specialist care for anything, cardiology, cancer, orthopeadics, neurology etc you have to go else where when your level of need dictates it, surely its the same for maternity! It is also a highly skilled area! I have had children in city and rural hospitals and went where it was determined was most appropriate for my and my babys safety.
Sara Jevo
16-May-10, 20:06
I agree, KGS
When you choose to live in a remote sparsely-populated area, you also choose to accept the distance to the nearest major medical centres. In our case, that is Aberdeen and Inverness. It's not Wick and never will be, unless this area grows into the proportions of a city.
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