View Full Version : Are humans animals?
Do we not breathe, reproduce, excrete and feed like animals? Everytime we watch a nature programme, can't you see the 'human' in their actions? We cannot excape our animalistic instincts so who are we kidding that we are special as a species? If the entire mammalian group of animals use chastisement to encourage good behavior from their offspring, why do do-gooder folk try to con us into going against our instincts?
Chobbersjnr
07-Jun-06, 18:48
yes we are
in fact worse than......................because
as a species the human race are the only ones that actively destroy & demolish & degrade the environment we live in for no other ends than to satisfy an ever growing sense of absolute consumer madness
as a race we suck...........................big time
No, humans are not animals. Though they can act like animals, and animals can sometimes act like humans but they are very different.
Whitewater
07-Jun-06, 22:44
No, we are all animals, and some of us are more animal than others.
Just looked out the window, it will be a full moon in a couple of days, we will see many more human animals then, what should I say "Werewolves" or "Wereanimals". The moon certainly has an effect on a few people in Wick.
landmarker
07-Jun-06, 23:31
Yes we are, but how many animals will set their clock, as I'm about to, to wake them up at six am. for another day to spend doing what you dont really want to do, simply for the means to wake up the next day to do the same thing.
If we're the top of the animal pile the bottom must be in a right state.
l/m
luskentyre
07-Jun-06, 23:51
I think we are animals - and pretty poor ones at that. Consider the amount of times we fall ill (compared to your average pet). Look at all the things we do which are detrimental to our well-being (smoking, drinking, eating rubbish etc.). A lot of us are unable to see clearly without assistance of some kind. Many of us are on medication for some ailment or other.
Yes, we're extremely intelligent - apparently. That doesn't explain why we're incapable of sorting out our problems though!
Are we animals? Biologically speaking, yes we are. However, we are the only animals with sophisticated minds which we use to destroy everything we touch which, in my opinion makes us inferior to the animals.
We destroy the environment at the expense of our own descendants, we destroy the ecology to support our consumer madness, we use up the planets rescources at an ever increasing rate for our own selfish ends and we kill each other all over the world. We are the only animals to make procreation a recreational pastime and the only creatures to practise contraception and voluntary abortion. We are the only species that is not on the decrease with little danger of extinction and we are responsible for rendering countless other species extinct because of our selfish greed.
It is really an insult to the animal kingdom to say that they are like us.
Well that's our species and yes we are definitely animals our closest cousins are the great apes with whom we share the majority of our genes and if I remember correctly up to 98%.
I think the few that we don't share must be the destructive genes for no other species on the planer seems so hell bent on destroying it's own habitat.
It is a sad to think that we as relative new comers have not used our intelligence to evolve into something more understanding,compassionate and social instead of many being agressive,self efacing and downright thoughtless.
We have the capacity to care,to love,to share but many cannot see the wider picture and remain locked in the genetic memory of a darker past and are afraid to step into the light.
On a lighter note, it is now official dogs do laugh so the next time you canine pal grins at you just step back and see if you can understand what the joke is.
Chobbersjnr
08-Jun-06, 00:20
On a lighter note, it is now official dogs do laugh so the next time you canine pal grins at you just step back and see if you can understand what the joke is.
LMAO
ten to one the joke is the owner
mwahahaha
our family K9 is chasing the great posty in the sky.....................probably howlin' a tune wi Elvis
George Brims
08-Jun-06, 01:59
Picture this. An alien from another planet arrives on earth, and the first creatures it meets are walking along, connected by a small piece of string. When one of them poops on the ground, the other one gets out a wee plastic bag and cleans it up. Which species do you think the alien will approach and say "Take me to your leader?"
Picture this. An alien from another planet arrives on earth, and the first creatures it meets are walking along, connected by a small piece of string. When one of them poops on the ground, the other one gets out a wee plastic bag and cleans it up. Which species do you think the alien will approach and say "Take me to your leader?"
Depends on which planet they came from[lol]
Picture this. An alien from another planet arrives on earth, and the first creatures it meets are walking along, connected by a small piece of string. When one of them poops on the ground, the other one gets out a wee plastic bag and cleans it up. Which species do you think the alien will approach and say "Take me to your leader?"
A visiting alien would have to conclude that this planet is populated by excretia producing tubes who seem to serve no other useful purpose.
Animals don't produce art, they don't have spirituality and they don't have a conscience.
Animals don't know what they know.
Yes animals can have loyality, devotion, even love, but do they worry about that mistake they made last week? Do they plan for the future? Do they design and create? Do they look at the stars and wonder why they are here? Do they wonder what the future holds? No. They like getting fed and reproducing and being comfortable....and playing, and sometimes working......but the more abstract things that make us human are out of their reach.
and ......but the more abstract things that make us human are out of their reach.
How do you know? Are these the differences that make us, as a race, destructive and selfish? If you are right then it means that we are intelligent animals but still animals and less benign on a planetary level than any other animal. I'm also prepared to believe that animals are not crazy enough to practise religion and this alone puts them above humans.
How do you know? Are these the differences that make us, as a race, destructive and selfish? If you are right then it means that we are intelligent animals but still animals and less benign on a planetary level than any other animal. I'm also prepared to believe that animals are not crazy enough to practise religion and this alone puts them above humans.
As a race we are destructive and selfish. That, however, doesn't change the fact of our potential. Animals don't have that potential. Unfortunatly humans practice much crazier things than religion.
As a race we are destructive and selfish. That, however, doesn't change the fact of our potential. Animals don't have that potential. Unfortunatly humans practice much crazier things than religion.
We will never reach that potential if we destroy our environment to the point where it cannot sustain life.
How do you know? Are these the differences that make us, as a race, destructive and selfish? If you are right then it means that we are intelligent animals but still animals and less benign on a planetary level than any other animal. I'm also prepared to believe that animals are not crazy enough to practise religion and this alone puts them above humans.
Animals are smart enough to realise that they do not need religion ;o)
Animals survive based on their instincts, which are very much more acute than ours. The human race used to possess natural instinct, however it is all but lost, in the developed world in particular, today.
Collectively, the sophisticated society we now live in is happy to watch our planet being raped. We live for the present and for ourselves, with little or no thought for the future or for others. Anyone trying to stand up for the Earth is labelled a "weirdo vegan", whilst those consuming and polluting as a way of life is deemed to be "normal"
We feel the world owes us a living, when it is actually the other way around.
Never mind, Tesco is coming to cheer us all up.
Animals don't produce art, they don't have spirituality and they don't have a conscience.
Animals don't know what they know.
Yes animals can have loyality, devotion, even love, but do they worry about that mistake they made last week? Do they plan for the future? Do they design and create? Do they look at the stars and wonder why they are here? Do they wonder what the future holds? No. They like getting fed and reproducing and being comfortable....and playing, and sometimes working......but the more abstract things that make us human are out of their reach.
Chimps can design and create tools in the wild
Art critics have been fooled by an elephant messing around with a paint brush, so much for abstract thought.
My dog worries that he might get a skelp if he goes near the cat's food bowl, so he can preempt me.
Yes my dog does look out at the scenery when we are out walking rather than sniffing up a treestump. Heaven knows what goes through my head, he is probably wondering heaven knows what goes through mine.
As for Spirituallity? Who needs it? A trap for the weak-minded that's all.
Rheghead, we are not supposed to mention elephants in a serious thread, so watch it.
pultneytooner
08-Jun-06, 18:41
Animals don't produce art, they don't have spirituality and they don't have a conscience.
Animals don't know what they know.
Yes animals can have loyality, devotion, even love, but do they worry about that mistake they made last week? Do they plan for the future? Do they design and create? Do they look at the stars and wonder why they are here? Do they wonder what the future holds? No. They like getting fed and reproducing and being comfortable....and playing, and sometimes working......but the more abstract things that make us human are out of their reach.
Of course humans are animals.
Can you prove animals outwith humans don't have a conscience?
Maybe they do wonder why they are here.
Some spiders webs, beehives, termite nests are great works of design.
Maybe pets regret the mistake they made of staying with the owner that beats them. Reproducing and being comfortable, isn't that the aim of humans aswell?
Chimps can design and create tools in the wild
Art critics have been fooled by an elephant messing around with a paint brush, so much for abstract thought.
Not exactly the wheel is it?
My dog worries that he might get a skelp if he goes near the cat's food bowl, so he can preempt me.
Yes my dog does look out at the scenery when we are out walking rather than sniffing up a treestump. Heaven knows what goes through my head, he is probably wondering heaven knows what goes through mine.
Learned behaviour isn't planning for the future.
As for Spirituallity? Who needs it? A trap for the weak-minded that's all.
I need it. I'm willing to test your theory to see if I am weak minded.... :)
Of course humans are animals.
Can you prove animals outwith humans don't have a conscience?
No I can't. Can you prove they have?
Maybe they do wonder why they are here.
Some spiders webs, beehives, termite nests are great works of design.
Yes, they are great works of design aren't they? I wonder who designed them?
The spider? The bee? Hmmm
Maybe pets regret the mistake they made of staying with the owner that beats them.
And yet they still show loyality.
Reproducing and being comfortable, isn't that the aim of humans aswell?
Sacrifice, philanthropism, charity, ambition.....some other aims that can out weigh reproducing and comfort.
PS. thanx for this thread Rheghead! Its just like the good ole days......;)
PS. thanx for this thread Rheghead! Its just like the good ole days......;)
No bother! I just knew you couldn't reeesiiiisst.:lol:
No bother! I just knew you couldn't reeesiiiisst.:lol:
Darn am I that predictable? :lol:
We eat animals and justify this butchery by saying that animals are lesser creatures and are provided for our use and nourishment. It is said that you are what you eat. What does that make all you thoughtless carnivores?
What good does it do that we are capable of forward planning when our forward plans almost assure the complete ruin of our home planet, our philanthropism doesn't seem to stretch to those who are starving, dying and homeless, our ambition is always achieved at the expense of other beings and we are prepared to sacrifice nothing if it affects our needs and desires.
We rape the planet and drain her of everything we can and then pump the waste back into our atmosphere even though we know that global warming will destroy our chidrens' lining space. No animal in the multiverse is so rapacious in its greed.
No Saveman, we are not animals, we are less than animals. The good book tells you religious people that thou shalt not kill. Where in the Bible does it say that thou shalt not kill your fellow man but can kill everything else that moves if we so desire up to and including the Planet we live on.
Not only are we animals, as a race we are rabid animals and if the Good Lord exists, how long will it be before he delivers divine retribution and wipes us of the face of Mother Earh for the sin of Matricide!!!!
changilass
09-Jun-06, 01:30
We eat animals and justify this butchery by saying that animals are lesser creatures and are provided for our use and nourishment. It is said that you are what you eat. What does that make all you thoughtless carnivores?
The majority of animals on this planet eat other animals as part of their staple diet.
If enjoying a nice juicy fillet steak makes me a thoughtless carnivore, then i hold my hands up to my guilt.
I am not willing to eat nothing but vegies and the various meat substitutes just so I can be classed as a cabbage - you did say "you are what you eat" lol
The majority of animals on this planet eat other animals as part of their staple diet.
If enjoying a nice juicy fillet steak makes me a thoughtless carnivore, then i hold my hands up to my guilt.
I am not willing to eat nothing but vegies and the various meat substitutes just so I can be classed as a cabbage - you did say "you are what you eat" lol
No other animal alive pays other animals to do its killing and only the scavengers eat what has already been killed by something else. The fact that we eat what is killed by others could perhaps put us on a par with the hyenas and other scavengers. I think I would rather be considered on a par with the cabbages as they are benign and harmless.
I really wanted to say something on this thread... but, I keep reading and reading more and gleber2 keeps takin' my thoughts and typing them on here!
although, I would like to say one thing more to Saveman...
BINGO! that's it.... it was the wheel... yea, between the reptilians from Sirius B interbreeding with humans and the "invention" of the wheel... that earmarks the beginning of our demise. :-)
We eat animals and justify this butchery by saying that animals are lesser creatures and are provided for our use and nourishment. It is said that you are what you eat. What does that make all you thoughtless carnivores?
What good does it do that we are capable of forward planning when our forward plans almost assure the complete ruin of our home planet, our philanthropism doesn't seem to stretch to those who are starving, dying and homeless, our ambition is always achieved at the expense of other beings and we are prepared to sacrifice nothing if it affects our needs and desires.
We rape the planet and drain her of everything we can and then pump the waste back into our atmosphere even though we know that global warming will destroy our chidrens' lining space. No animal in the multiverse is so rapacious in its greed.
No Saveman, we are not animals, we are less than animals. The good book tells you religious people that thou shalt not kill. Where in the Bible does it say that thou shalt not kill your fellow man but can kill everything else that moves if we so desire up to and including the Planet we live on.
Not only are we animals, as a race we are rabid animals and if the Good Lord exists, how long will it be before he delivers divine retribution and wipes us of the face of Mother Earh for the sin of Matricide!!!!
I think I agree with most of what you're saying here Gleber2. Certainly the differences between animals and us are the same differences that make us deliberately evil and negligent.
The good book certainly agrees, you may find Revelation chapter 11 verse 18 interesting. It's amazing that a writer almost 2000 years ago wrote about humans that would be destroying or ruining the earth.
How long will it be before the Good Lord delivers divine retribution? Well the Bible indicates that we're now living in the Last Days.....so not very long at all....if you believe the Bible.... :)
I certainly don't believe the bible but all the other occult sources indicate that we are in The Last days and the general consensus is that we have until approximately 2012 although I personally put it nearer 2010.
I certainly don't believe the bible but all the other occult sources indicate that we are in The Last days and the general consensus is that we have until approximately 2012 although I personally put it nearer 2010.
Better not tell Seb Coe his London 2012 bid was in vain.
Not exactly the wheel is it?
"Man" woke up one morning with the great idea of the wheel?????
What human beings did was build on the simple untill it became incredibly complex. We are mamals, along with all the other mamals, with the difference that evolution made us a little smarter and with ego's so huge, we'll destry our enviroment because we think we own it.
I certainly don't believe the bible but all the other occult sources indicate that we are in The Last days and the general consensus is that we have until approximately 2012 although I personally put it nearer 2010.
Your not trying to tell me that Zager and Evans were that far out in there estimations are you?
"Man" woke up one morning with the great idea of the wheel?????
What human beings did was build on the simple untill it became incredibly complex. We are mamals, along with all the other mamals, with the difference that evolution made us a little smarter and with ego's so huge, we'll destry our enviroment because we think we own it.
If evolution is true then we do own it......and we've got nothing to worry about because the fittest will survive and adapt anyway......so who cares about the weak?
Your not trying to tell me that Zager and Evans were that far out in there estimations are you?
Who are they?
Who are they?
A man of your musical talents. Im shaking my head in disgust. They didnt figure on things going pear shaped until at least the year 2525.
If evolution is true then we do own it......and we've got nothing to worry about because the fittest will survive and adapt anyway......so who cares about the weak?
According to your holy phantasy no-one will survive Armageddon. As far as your point on the evolution theory is concerned you will have to explain your point a bit more as I cannot follow your logic.
A man of your musical talents. Im shaking my head in disgust. They didnt figure on things going pear shaped until at least the year 2525.
I'm still not sure who they are.
Zager and Evans- In the year 2525 (exordium&terminus) circa1969.
You really dont want me to try and sing it to you ,do ya?
It'll only upset all the animals again.
Who are the weak that some of you keep referring to? IMO The weak ones are the ones who are unaware and have no respect whatsoever for Spirit mainly because of their arrogance and ignorance as they are more preoccupied with material things and desires of the flesh! The ways of Man are not the ways of Spirit! The ones who respect Spirit and live by the Universal Laws and not Man made laws shall be the ones who survive as they are fully aware of what is happening and why......Are humans animals?.........IMO the majority are, personally I would prefer the company of animals to people, animals dont lie, cheat, steal, stab you in the back, put you down, set you up, wind you up, use and abuse you. They are at one with Spirit as we should also be......
they are more preoccupied with material things and desires of the flesh! The ways of Man are not the ways of Spirit!
Exactly, so where does spirit have a role and what evidence is there for it?
personally I would prefer the company of animals to people, animals dont lie, cheat, steal, stab you in the back, put you down, set you up, wind you up, use and abuse you. They are at one with Spirit as we should also be......
And the christian and spiritual ones amongst you will gladly leave your animals behind you when you enter the afterlife as according to them, animals have no soul.
So much for spirituality folks!
Exactly, so where does spirit have a role and what evidence is there for it?
And the christian and spiritual ones amongst you will gladly leave your animals behind you when you enter the afterlife as according to them, animals have no soul.
So much for spirituality folks!Phoenix, a spot on post.
Rheghead, if you are not aware of the levels beyond the material plane and into the realm of the spirit then there is no proof but, because you are incapable of seeing it, does not mean that it does not exist. You mistakenly equate spirit with Christian. Two different animals.
Each individual is responsible for his own Kharma and we leave nothing behind because "leaving behind" indicates a level of control which we do not have.
It is impossible to prove the existance of the human soul let alone debate the animals.
Watcha talking about Rheghead? :) WE are first and foremost Spiritual Beings living in a Physical Material World, its not the other way around! To know Spirit you have to live that way not the ways of man. Evidence is not available for non-believers!:} Its there if you want to see it you got to open your eyes and ears! FYI Rheghead animals do have a spirit or soul, your dog or cat could have been your Great Aunt or Grandfather or anyone else you may have unfinished business with, they may have chosen to come back to you to sort things out.:} Thats my theory anyway and Im sticking with it, and I know I will meet with my pet friends on the other side and the ones who are with us now will always be with us WE are all part of the same consciousness! Everything has a soul or a spirit.........Planet Earth is a Living Breathing Entity as is the air that you breath, as is the trees and the flowers the birds the animals its all the same.........thats Spirituality! :}
Phoenix, a spot on post.
Rheghead, if you are not aware of the levels beyond the material plane and into the realm of the spirit then there is no proof but, because you are incapable of seeing it, does not mean that it does not exist. You mistakenly equate spirit with Christian. Two different animals.
Each individual is responsible for his own Kharma and we leave nothing behind because "leaving behind" indicates a level of control which we do not have.
It is impossible to prove the existance of the human soul let alone debate the animals.
Cheers Gleber2! Compre.... I think! :)
thats Spirituality! :}
keep it, I call it self-delusion.
You mistakenly equate spirit with Christian.
No I don't and I didn't.
Christianity has the worse track record as a religion when it comes to animal rights.
In the Roman world it was only when Christians got a hold of the reins of power were thousands of giraffes and the like slaughtered under the gaze of the zealous converts.
No I don't and I didn't.
Christianity has the worse track record as a religion when it comes to animal rights.
In the Roman world it was only when Christians got a hold of the reins of power were thousands of giraffes and the like slaughtered under the gaze of the zealous converts.
Spiritualist does not mean christian and the two should not be grouped together. When one has seen and accepted the realm of the spirit it does not entail worship or faith or all the rest of the hypocrasy of the organised religions. Your last post only strengthens my assertation theat you did and you do.
Watcha talking about Rheghead? :) WE are first and foremost Spiritual Beings living in a Physical Material World, its not the other way around!
Now I'm getting confused, do we have souls or do we have bodies?
Your last post only strengthens my assertation theat you did and you do.
Your last post only strengthens my assertation that you completely read what you want to read in other people's posts.
Chobbersjnr
09-Jun-06, 19:40
And the christian and spiritual ones amongst you will gladly leave your animals behind you when you enter the afterlife as according to them, animals have no soul.
! Befor I say a word, this post if from Gleber2 not his son. We must get another PC.
I don't think there is dispute about the fact that you made the above statement which ceratinly lumps spirituality and christian in the same breath. If you meant something else, then make your statements of absolute certainty less ambiguous and you arguements less prejudiced and specious.
Now I'm getting confused, do we have souls or do we have bodies?
Nothing is certain but I would have thought that we have both. Soul can mean so many things.
pultneytooner
09-Jun-06, 20:27
Nothing is certain but I would have thought that we have both. Soul can mean so many things. Soul is energy and can never be destroyed, once our bodies die I think we just transfer to another receptacle for that energy.;)
pultneytooner
09-Jun-06, 20:28
According to science fiction films, one of our fears is being invaded by beings from another planet who will then take over and use up all our resources like parasites, does this mean we are our own worst nightmare?
keep it, I call it self-delusion.
I call it a way of life Rheghead! :}
Now I'm getting confused, do we have souls or do we have bodies?
Our body is a vehicle for our spirit/soul.....dont know if the soul and the spirit are two different things though!
According to science fiction films, one of our fears is being invaded by beings from another planet who will then take over and use up all our resources like parasites, does this mean we are our own worst nightmare?
Ha Ha Ha etc. Well said PT.
Soul is energy and can never be destroyed, once our bodies die I think we just transfer to another receptacle for that energy.;)
So soul is energy pultneytooner...........aye I think I get where youre coming from! Its these negative "souls" who you have to beware of, theyre the ones who take great delight at putting others down to make themselves feel more superior and to drain energy from them! :}
I dont think we need worry of "beings" from another planet though its the "beings" already on this planet Id be more worried about! :} If youre connected to the "source" though youve nothing to worry about! :}
melted_wellie
09-Jun-06, 20:44
So soul is energy pultneytooner...........aye I think I get where youre coming from! Its these negative "souls" who you have to beware of, theyre the ones who take great delight at putting others down to make themselves feel more superior and to drain energy from them! :}
I dont think we need worry of "beings" from another planet though its the "beings" already on this planet Id be more worried about! :} If youre connected to the "source" though youve nothing to worry about! :} woooohoooo pass that spliff over here please.
pultneytooner
09-Jun-06, 20:50
So soul is energy pultneytooner...........aye I think I get where youre coming from! Its these negative "souls" who you have to beware of, theyre the ones who take great delight at putting others down to make themselves feel more superior and to drain energy from them! :}
I dont think we need worry of "beings" from another planet though its the "beings" already on this planet Id be more worried about! :} If youre connected to the "source" though youve nothing to worry about! :}
That's the thing though, we don't worry, it's our kids and grandchildren who will have to do the worrying. What a legacy.
pultneytooner
09-Jun-06, 20:52
woooohoooo pass that spliff over here please.
There's an intelligent quote.
You should be on stage......................as a floorboard.;)
woooohoooo pass that spliff over here please.
Dont have one.........do you? [lol]
melted_wellie
09-Jun-06, 20:54
There's an intelligent quote.
You should be on stage......................as a floorboard.;)pass that drink yer drinkin too,youve had enough.
pultneytooner
09-Jun-06, 20:58
pass that drink yer drinkin too,youve had enough.
H2O, adams ale.[lol]
Nothing is certain but I would have thought that we have both. Soul can mean so many things.
But is it the soul or the body which is the you?
But is it the soul or the body which is the you?
Unfortunately this point can be argued both ways. If, as many believe, we live in an illusary universe then the soul/spirit is the essential you. The you that most people refer to is, to me, a false persona which has been created by our education and conditioning. If this false persona/ego is strong enough then the individual never realises that the real persona exists.
If this is not an illusion, it seems obvious to me that the combination of soul and body makes up the essential you.
According to your holy phantasy no-one will survive Armageddon.
Do you think anyone deserves to survive Armageddon?
Or if death is a transference to another realm....then death at Armageddon is good anyway?
As far as your point on the evolution theory is concerned you will have to explain your point a bit more as I cannot follow your logic.
Not sure I can be bothered ;)
Do you think anyone deserves to survive Armageddon?
Or if death is a transference to another realm....then death at Armageddon is good anyway?
Not sure I can be bothered ;)
Fair do's nae argument.!!!
If evolution is true then we do own it......and we've got nothing to worry about because the fittest will survive and adapt anyway......so who cares about the weak?
We as individuals and as a species are here on loan. We own nothing because we are totaly dependent on and parasites of the earth. A flea does not own the dog it lives on, the grass does not own the ground it grows on. We are not proprietores of this planet because when it no longer can put up with human excesses, it will suffer changes that will make our lives unsustainable. The last time a dramatic change of this type ocurred the dominant species died out completely, so there is a probability that humans of any type will not be able to adapt/evolve to accompany a changing world (the more complex the organism, the less ability it has to adapt to quick change....quick does not mean overnight, nor even over a millenium).
And also, if you are about seperating the human beings from animals, then surely empathy is one of the caracteristics that spring to mind as defining of the human being. In nature mamals that are mortally wounded or ill are abandoned because they are inviable. The human animal is the one that cares for its weak, and at great expense (not only financial, but emotional and social) makes sure that they survive and live as fruitfully as possible. Survival of the fitest is of the natural realm. Who cares about the survival of the weak: why....us, human beings (except you aparently...so does that make you an animal?;) ).
We eat animals and justify this butchery by saying that animals are lesser creatures and are provided for our use and nourishment. It is said that you are what you eat. What does that make all you thoughtless carnivores?
Actually I am omnivorous, and am designed as such, as are all human beings. I respect the food I eat, as all of it dies to sustain me. I especially respect any animal that dies to feed me.
Just out of curiosity, do you do dairy? The lives of dairy cows and meat cattle are very different. Given the choice I would rather be a meat cow: two/three good years on a pasture with little contact with humans- a very natural life. Dairy cows have a calf a year that is removed on birth, often to be culled (waste) and have been selected to produce abnormal ammounts of milk ( lactation can be very painful under normal circumstances, nevermind when at peak you regulary produce 80 pints). If you become ill, you get culled. If you get matitis, even in one teat, you will probably be culled. When you reach the end of your useful life, you'll be culled. So if I were to feel guilty about my omnivorous habits, I would feel far more guilty about that yougurt, cheese or dash of milk in my tea.
I thought the original question posed was quite straight forward and only required a direct answer!
So how come once again it has meandered off and become like an ox bow with no direct link to the original stream?
In reply you Ju, I have been vegan for 27 years becuase milk is poisonous to the human body, unlike the calf, we only have one stomach which finds dairy food very hard to digest.
Lizz, does it matter?
At some stage not after life emerged it split, in the main, into two divergent directions in order to continue existing.
One form settled down and derived it's nutrients from it's surroundings intending to live in peace with all around it.
The other form of life wandered round slaughtering all in it's path to gain it's nourishment, especially those life forms which were unable to run away.
Now I am supposed to feel concern and sympathy for the rampaging slaughtering herds and to join in the disgusting habit of picking on the life form which set out to harm nothing!
I cannot conceive of a countryside completely devoid of animals where the only means of putting nourishment back into the land is by artificial fertilisers.
To answer Rheghead's original question. There are those in the human race who wish to pretend that we are either oh so superior to all other life forms or are in some way completely separated from the rules of survival by which they live.
In truth, the animal we probably resemble most in behaviour are rats. A quick check on their behaviour patterns will show the similarities.
We as individuals and as a species are here on loan. We own nothing because we are totaly dependent on and parasites of the earth. A flea does not own the dog it lives on, the grass does not own the ground it grows on. We are not proprietores of this planet because when it no longer can put up with human excesses, it will suffer changes that will make our lives unsustainable. The last time a dramatic change of this type ocurred the dominant species died out completely, so there is a probability that humans of any type will not be able to adapt/evolve to accompany a changing world (the more complex the organism, the less ability it has to adapt to quick change....quick does not mean overnight, nor even over a millenium).
And also, if you are about seperating the human beings from animals, then surely empathy is one of the caracteristics that spring to mind as defining of the human being. In nature mamals that are mortally wounded or ill are abandoned because they are inviable. The human animal is the one that cares for its weak, and at great expense (not only financial, but emotional and social) makes sure that they survive and live as fruitfully as possible. Survival of the fitest is of the natural realm. Who cares about the survival of the weak: why....us, human beings (except you aparently...so does that make you an animal?;) ).
I certainly care about the weak. It was a comment on the theory of evolution.
I thought the original question posed was quite straight forward and only required a direct answer!
So how come once again it has meandered off and become like an ox bow with no direct link to the original stream?
No the original question was loaded, anything but straight forward. It put the proposition that animals chastise their young therefore corporal punishment is natural and should not be frowned on.
The original question ignores the fact that animals do not punish their young, any chastisement is in an instant and forgotten immediately, no animal ever had to wait for its father to get home or go to bed without supper afterwards. The original question ignores the fact that some humans will use excessive punishment on their young, in an attempt to get total control, because they get a sadistic pleasure from it or just as a way to take out their fustrations on someone, something you very rarely see in the animal world. It is the children of those parents the do gooders are desperate to protect but it is impossible to distinguish the genuine from the perverted so both must be addressed together.
I think all animals equally depend on each other in a variety of ways... should be an equal give and take relationship really, only now humans have gone mad with the deforestation of this country in part to graze animals to eat... and out of Tescos? that's eating rotting flesh remember (let's recap...chopping down a vast resource and source of oxygen to eat rotting flesh???!?).. we use sheeps wool for loads of extremely useful deeds.. we lead the sheep to green pastures. Multitudes of wee beasties live on your body feeding off dead skin cells and what else haveya but, this is good for you and alot of these same wee beasties control other wee beasties who might invade your foodstuffs and so it goes in nature. Some say veganism or vegetarianism is part of the answer but, what about say the Mongols? They respect their animals and spend their whole nomadic way of life grazing these animals and the Mongols eat nearly nothing besides animals... just about every part conceivable yet, they also have the utmost almost uncanny respect for the environment. And nobody there "owns" land... they respect their fellow Mongols and as they travel they make sure to leave the following nomads a good grazing space. Maybe Heather McCartney will tell the Mongols to stop wearing fur while she sits in her gargantuan central heated house?
I think it's not about whether humans are animals, that's just a daft question but what this thread is discussing is really all down to culture. Scots and Mongols... all humans but, on the whole there is a very HUGE distinct difference in the way we live. Fact is westerners together are greedy little disasters and wouldn't know respect for anything if it jumped up and bit them in the behind!
Secondly, name me another animal that doesn't kill anything else? it's a fact of life folks. it's all about measure.
Although, I believe in living in equal measure and in a more eco-friendly way... I do believe that the earth wouldn't dish out anything it couldn't handle. Earth's got intelligent life with extreme capabilities, remember Mother Earth has allowed that to happen, i think if She gets too "sick" she'll get rid of a "few" of us herself.(sooner rather than later judging by the way things are goin.) She's (Earth) a big lass and she'll no let puny little humans get the best of her (and my guess is she's quite fed up of all this patronising bull). But, this is no reason to exploit her either.
I think all animals equally depend on each other in a variety of ways... should be an equal give and take relationship really, only now humans have gone mad with the deforestation of this country in part to graze animals to eat... and out of Tescos? that's eating rotting flesh remember (let's recap...chopping down a vast resource and source of oxygen to eat rotting flesh???!?).. we use sheeps wool for loads of extremely useful deeds.. we lead the sheep to green pastures. Multitudes of wee beasties live on your body feeding off dead skin cells and what else haveya but, this is good for you and alot of these same wee beasties control other wee beasties who might invade your foodstuffs and so it goes in nature. Some say veganism or vegetarianism is part of the answer but, what about say the Mongols? They respect their animals and spend their whole nomadic way of life grazing these animals and the Mongols eat nearly nothing besides animals... just about every part conceivable yet, they also have the utmost almost uncanny respect for the environment. And nobody there "owns" land... they respect their fellow Mongols and as they travel they make sure to leave the following nomads a good grazing space. Maybe Heather McCartney will tell the Mongols to stop wearing fur while she sits in her gargantuan central heated house?
I think it's not about whether humans are animals, that's just a daft question but what this thread is discussing is really all down to culture. Scots and Mongols... all humans but, on the whole there is a very HUGE distinct difference in the way we live. Fact is westerners together are greedy little disasters and wouldn't know respect for anything if it jumped up and bit them in the behind!
Secondly, name me another animal that doesn't kill anything else? it's a fact of life folks. it's all about measure.
Although, I believe in living in equal measure and in a more eco-friendly way... I do believe that the earth wouldn't dish out anything it couldn't handle. Earth's got intelligent life with extreme capabilities, remember Mother Earth has allowed that to happen, i think if She gets too "sick" she'll get rid of a "few" of us herself.(sooner rather than later judging by the way things are goin.) She's (Earth) a big lass and she'll no let puny little humans get the best of her (and my guess is she's quite fed up of all this patronising bull). But, this is no reason to exploit her either.
Isn't it strange how we humans give gender to things that should be asexual. Planet Earth is a wifie and God is a mannie. I assume that makes us their bairns. What badly behaved little brats we are. No wonder Mother Earth sent her hubbie for the snip ;o)
to refer in a familiar way or to not? but, yes, I would say we are made out of the Earth and "she" is definately our elder so... we "humans" could be said to be her bairns! Anyways.. Earth is real (in most of our realities that is)... god as they say? hhmm... I question "his" existence or even the idea of "his" existence.
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