View Full Version : are the thurso cliffs safe?
young_fishin_neep
05-Jun-06, 20:44
after the recent event of today and my veiws i personally i think the cliffs are realy dangerous and need a fence all the way around or to be band completly imagine if it was a toddler who had been running about and fallen off the edge would they have survived aswell or atleast only have sufferd the same injurys as the poor man earleys today......i doubt it!! does anybody else think the same thing?
kaz xx
I agree that the cliffs are unsafe.
Of course cliffs are unsafe; all cliffs are unsafe; that is why they should be avoided!
I think roads and streets are even more unsafe but much more unavoidable and that us pedestrians should be completely separated from them. Just think; there are cars whizzing by even toddlers at 30mph in a built up area and much more on country roads.
Many people object to nanny states so wouldn't fencing off all the cliffs around the British Isles come under that heading?
landmarker
05-Jun-06, 21:59
Many people object to nanny states so wouldn't fencing off all the cliffs around the British Isles come under that heading?
I have to say I agree wholeheartedly. Maybe a few warning signs but to fence off seems a bit of an over-reaction. I have no idea what happened here but if it's crumbling cliffs due to coastal erosion isn't the best policy to stay well away from the edge? I wouldn't stand underneath 'em for very long either!
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 22:06
i walked the path for the first time since moving up here a couple of weeks ago, and personally i think it is far enough away from the edge. It is just me or does common sense dictate that if you go too close to the edge there is a possibility of going over?
i really hope the guy that went over is not in a life threatening situation, but if he was trying to stop something heavy and moving from going over then surely a basic knowledge of physics and momentum would dictate to just let it go over the edge rather than himself. though i reckon with hindsight he may agree and we all react differently in certain situations. hope he gets well soon.
back on topic (sorry i ramble on occassionally)
no i don't think they need fencing off at all.
I can't think of any reason why the cliffs can't have a safety railing in place, especially in the light of what has happened. This walk is right in the town (not out in the country) where lots of folk including young mums with toddlers frequently walk. It is not as if it hasn't happened before is it?
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 22:12
well the last person who fell off ie shes in a wheelchair and lost i think her battle with compensation money from council as they were regarded as safe ,but why not put a fence the whole way across gie im sure it would take a day or so ,like some one else said imagine it had been a toddler ,it was a cart that rolled could of been a pram ,wonder how they will regard this incident as hes a council worker on his daily duties that fell
Buttercup
05-Jun-06, 22:14
[quote=Ann]Of course cliffs are unsafe; all cliffs are unsafe; that is why they should be avoided!
I think roads and streets are even more unsafe but much more unavoidable and that us pedestrians should be completely separated from them. Just think; there are cars whizzing by even toddlers at 30mph in a built up area and much more on country roads.
Many people object to nanny states so wouldn't fencing off all the cliffs around the British Isles come under that heading?[/quote
Fully agree with you there Ann.
It's time people learned to take responsibility for their own actions and not expect others to look out for them the whole time. Everyone knows cliffs are dangerous and everyone locally knows what like the Victoria Walk is, if you're not prepared to accept the risk - stay away!
Without passing comment on the latest or any particular incident - I believe the vast majority of people who have been hurt here have been under the influence of something or other!
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 22:16
i walked the path for the first time since moving up here a couple of weeks ago, and personally i think it is far enough away from the edge. It is just me or does common sense dictate that if you go too close to the edge there is a possibility of going over?
i really hope the guy that went over is not in a life threatening situation, but if he was trying to stop something heavy and moving from going over then surely a basic knowledge of physics and momentum would dictate to just let it go over the edge rather than himself. though i reckon with hindsight he may agree and we all react differently in certain situations. hope he gets well soon.
back on topic (sorry i ramble on occassionally)
no i don't think they need fencing off at all.as far back as i can rember theres been 4 people going over 1 death 1 in wheelchair dont you think its just as much common sence for there to be a rail right the way or even a fence ,???
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 22:17
,like some one else said imagine it had been a toddler ,it was a cart that rolled could of been a pram ,wonder how they will regard this incident as hes a council worker on his daily duties that fell
what is wrong with being in control of toddlers? there are such safety devices for them called reins, i remember wearing them and i certainly remember my kids wearing them where necessary. if it were a pram to roll off then again the parent/[erson in control of the pram is not in full control.
admittedly i have walked this path only the once but only 3 weeks ago if that. i saw the lifeboat and know exactly where they were positioned, and if i am remebering correctly the cliff edge is at least 6 ft or more away from the edge of the path.
what is wrong with common sense or are we losing it in this nanny state?
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 22:20
as far back as i can rember theres been 4 people going over 1 death 1 in wheelchair dont you think its just as much common sence for there to be a rail right the way or even a fence ,???
no i dont to be blunt.
maybe i was brought up in a different era and different area, but i regularly used to be playing on river banks, cliff tops and other such 'dangerous' places when i were a lass ;) i was brought up being told to be careful not being wrapped in cotton wool.
a little bit of respect for nature, the environment and common sense has stood me well, never once have i fallen in the river or off a cliff.
I don't think the human race has quite grasped the meaning of common sense. There is a lot of it about but not enough. Common sense would tell us that motorised vehicles are a gross danger to mankind going by statistics but what is happening? They are being made to go even faster, speed limits are not adhered to or being more strictly applied.
If someone was projected from even the first half of the twentieth century, they would not believe the speeds of cars etc., or the things we poison our bodies with. Why is nothing being (seriously) done about that?
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 22:23
what is wrong with being in control of toddlers? there are such safety devices for them called reins, i remember wearing them and i certainly remember my kids wearing them where necessary. if it were a pram to roll off then again the parent/[erson in control of the pram is not in full control.
admittedly i have walked this path only the once but only 3 weeks ago if that. i saw the lifeboat and know exactly where they were positioned, and if i am remebering correctly the cliff edge is at least 6 ft or more away from the edge of the path.
what is wrong with common sense or are we losing it in this nanny state?i seen it from my window 40 yards away whole thing the bit is right on the corner where he fell id say at least 2 feet of path 2 feet off tufty grass wich can be decieving
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 22:28
even the distance of 2ft off grass after the edge of the path is enough to warrant the brain kicking in and saying 'hang on a minute, this is getting a little bit close for comfort, should i really be this close to the edge of a cliff?'
or as i say, does common sense no longer live in this world?
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 22:28
no i dont to be blunt.
maybe i was brought up in a different era and different area, but i regularly used to be playing on river banks, cliff tops and other such 'dangerous' places when i were a lass ;) i was brought up being told to be careful not being wrapped in cotton wool.
a little bit of respect for nature, the environment and common sense has stood me well, never once have i fallen in the river or off a cliff.accidents happen every where every minute every day but to eliminate a deadley problem makes sence to me ,
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 22:30
accidents happen every where every minute every day but to eliminate a deadley problem makes sence to me ,
but it is only deadly when straying from the path ;)
yes accidents happen. i'll bet there are more accidents in thurso on the road than on the cliffs, do we ban motorised vehicles?
Hence my posting re cars and speed. Another deadly problem to be eliminated I think? And believe you me, although it can't be eliminated entirely, it certainly can be mightily reduced if we removed all those without common sense as could a lot of other accidents.
Human nature will overturn any changes and improvements we might make to solve many a problem.
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 22:35
but it is only deadly when straying from the path ;)
yes accidents happen. i'll bet there are more accidents in thurso on the road than on the cliffs, do we ban motorised vehicles?your busy going on about common sence and people should have it well how about ,the people who have common sence ,use it where its needed ,no we dont ban cars but they have been made more safer ie air bags etc over years so why cant a cliff edge be ,i guess ur an incomer how u only walked it the once
Billy Boy
05-Jun-06, 22:38
what next, would you want the walk round the mall fenced off to, as the path in some bits is right next to a fast flowing river at certain times of the year.
if you were to get the victoria walk fenced off where would it all end as there are plenty of other walks with hazzards on them. like the walk from thusro east along the coast line towards murkle. all it takes is a bit of comon sense and care when on these walks. i know accident do happen but surely extra caution should be taken when on these walks:confused
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 22:43
your busy going on about common sence and people should have it well how about ,the people who have common sence ,use it where its needed ,no we dont ban cars but they have been made more safer ie air bags etc over years so why cant a cliff edge be ,i guess ur an incomer how u only walked it the once
yes i am an incomer, white settler, whatever you want to call me, but that makes no odds as to the discussion.
i have walked the path the whole path once about 3 weeks ago, the bit between the turning to scrabster and the coastguard station i have walked quite a few times including in howling blizzards. i personally see no reason why someone with any self preservation should 'fall off' for no particular reason, it is simple fact really, if you go that close to the edge you are in danger of falling off then you are too close and a numpty.:roll:
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 22:49
yes i am an incomer, white settler, whatever you want to call me, but that makes no odds as to the discussion.
i have walked the path the whole path once about 3 weeks ago, the bit between the turning to scrabster and the coastguard station i have walked quite a few times including in howling blizzards. i personally see no reason why someone with any self preservation should 'fall off' for no particular reason, it is simple fact really, if you go that close to the edge you are in danger of falling off then you are too close and a numpty.:roll:so ur calling a guy thats in hospital ,dont know his condition ,a numpty ,he was talking to another council worker i heard next he looked cart moving tried to grab and fell ,maybe he got lightheaded panicked etc think ur out off order saying that
I think what he done has just been pure reflex and it has had such terrible consequences for the poor man and his family. I hope he gets well soon and recovers from this terrible ordeal. Realistically reflexes make us all do silly things I remember dropping a carving knife and trying to catch it as it fell by the blade!!! Just pure luck I missed or I would have lost my fingers and I am sure we have all done such things.
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 22:58
I think what he done has just been pure reflex and it has had such terrible consequences for the poor man and his family. I hope he gets well soon and recovers from this terrible ordeal. Realistically reflexes make us all do silly things I remember dropping a carving knife and trying to catch it as it fell by the blade!!! Just pure luck I missed or I would have lost my fingers and I am sure we have all done such things.true true ,but a fence i repeat a fence could stop it surley that makes sence to someone ?
I think what he done has just been pure reflex and it has had such terrible consequences for the poor man and his family. I hope he gets well soon and recovers from this terrible ordeal. Realistically reflexes make us all do silly things I remember dropping a carving knife and trying to catch it as it fell by the blade!!! Just pure luck I missed or I would have lost my fingers and I am sure we have all done such things.
Of course you are right Unicorn; I'd like to add my good wished to the gentleman and his family; I do hope he will be ok.
I see where you are all coming from in the fence theory but I remember my grandads generation right up to mine growing up around the cliffs and respecting them, and then after fencing being erected seeing kids CLIMBING on it where before they would respect the edge they then tested the limits of safety??????? so either way yes it would prevent accidents such as todays but it may also cause more because people then do stupid things like hang over the edge etc putting their life in the hands of a piece of wood or slippy metal....
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 23:13
so ur calling a guy thats in hospital ,dont know his condition ,a numpty ,he was talking to another council worker i heard next he looked cart moving tried to grab and fell ,maybe he got lightheaded panicked etc think ur out off order saying that
if you read back you will see that i said about accidents happen, we all react differently to different situations and i hope the guy in question is ok, think before you type pedromcgrory.
you can think i am out of order if you like as can anyone else, we are all entitled to an opinion, and my opinion is that a fence is not needed on the cliff path.
the guy reacted trying to catch his cart in the unfortunate manner that he did and he got it wrong, that does not make him a numpty - what i said was that if you fall off the cliff for no particular reason, you are a numpty. he had an unfortunate accident and i wish him no harm i wished him a speedy recovery a few posts back.
do these carts have brakes like a pram? i assume that as not all roads/paths are on level ground then brakes would be fitted, they are there for a reason, use them, would you leave a push chair or pram on an incline next to some cliffs without the brakes on?
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 23:15
I see where you are all coming from in the fence theory but I remember my grandads generation right up to mine growing up around the cliffs and respecting them, and then after fencing being erected seeing kids CLIMBING on it where before they would respect the edge they then tested the limits of safety??????? so either way yes it would prevent accidents such as todays but it may also cause more because people then do stupid things like hang over the edge etc putting their life in the hands of a piece of wood or slippy metal....if there stupid enough to do that then they would be stupid enough to look over the edge on slippy wet grass fence is still the answer
I see where you are all coming from in the fence theory but I remember my grandads generation right up to mine growing up around the cliffs and respecting them, and then after fencing being erected seeing kids CLIMBING on it where before they would respect the edge they then tested the limits of safety??????? so either way yes it would prevent accidents such as todays but it may also cause more because people then do stupid things like hang over the edge etc putting their life in the hands of a piece of wood or slippy metal....
I agree with you, Unicorn. When I were a kid we were taught that some things were dangerous and best avoided. 'corse, us being kids we went ahead anyway; I've climbed most o fthe way down Holborn Head when I was a kid - nearly killed myself one day! Didn't go down again, I can tell you!
Do we also put fencing all the way around the edges of piers and harbour walls at Thurso and Scrabster as well? Someone might accidently drive off you know... someone did when I lived in Thurso - idiot put the car in wrong gear. They do put fencing around railway lines down here - kids just climb over them and play 'chicken' with the trains. Look on it as natural selection; those that don't have enough sense get weeded out. (just kidding!) :roll:
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 23:20
if you read back you will see that i said about accidents happen, we all react differently to different situations and i hope the guy in question is ok, think before you type pedromcgrory.
you can think i am out of order if you like as can anyone else, we are all entitled to an opinion, and my opinion is that a fence is not needed on the cliff path.
the guy reacted trying to catch his cart in the unfortunate manner that he did and he got it wrong, that does not make him a numpty - what i said was that if you fall off the cliff for no particular reason, you are a numpty. he had an unfortunate accident and i wish him no harm i wished him a speedy recovery a few posts back.
do these carts have brakes like a pram? i assume that as not all roads/paths are on level ground then brakes would be fitted, they are there for a reason, use them, would you leave a push chair or pram on an incline next to some cliffs without the brakes on?you called him a numpty pure and simple
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 23:21
if there stupid enough to do that then they would be stupid enough to look over the edge on slippy wet grass fence is still the answer
just because a fence is there, does not make the fence safe. bolts can be rusted, fatigued, wood can be rotten and you can't tell by looking at it. the 'look' of safety can make people more foolish than they would be without the fence.
at least i think that is what unicorn meant ;)
no i don't think they need fencing off at all.tuggs not being cheeky but give your self a good slap and a good talking too i never heard so much rubbish
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 23:22
yes i am an incomer, white settler, whatever you want to call me, but that makes no odds as to the discussion.
i have walked the path the whole path once about 3 weeks ago, the bit between the turning to scrabster and the coastguard station i have walked quite a few times including in howling blizzards. i personally see no reason why someone with any self preservation should 'fall off' for no particular reason, it is simple fact really, if you go that close to the edge you are in danger of falling off then you are too close and a numpty.:roll:heres the proof
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 23:23
you called him a numpty pure and simple
that's your perogative to think that pure and simple, :roll:
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 23:23
just because a fence is there, does not make the fence safe. bolts can be rusted, fatigued, wood can be rotten and you can't tell by looking at it. the 'look' of safety can make people more foolish than they would be without the fence.
at least i think that is what unicorn meant ;)get them maintained every six months etc thats that solved
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 23:25
get them maintained every six months etc thats that solved
that would be the obvious answer. but why should a fence be erected in the first place? again back to the original statement i made, in my opinion it is not needed. all that is needed is common sense.
what next, would you want the walk round the mall fenced off to, as the path in some bits is right next to a fast flowing river at certain times of the year.
if you were to get the victoria walk fenced off where would it all end as there are plenty of other walks with hazzards on them. like the walk from thusro east along the coast line towards murkle. all it takes is a bit of comon sense and care when on these walks. i know accident do happen but surely extra caution should be taken when on these walks:confusedYes but it hasn't got a swing park next to it ?????
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 23:28
there is a 'fence' between the swing park and the path.
all that is needed is common sense.
I wish it was sufficient, but is there anyone with 10 pints inside them on their way back from skins to scrabster at 3am got any common sense?
I lost my grandad to the cliffs and the only reason that happened because there was no fence or barriers. When my family complained to the council they put up a fence but only at the place where he fell to his death . i think it is the council duty to protect the public from these incident when it's so close to the town .
there is a 'fence' between the swing park and the path.Yes but that dosen't stop a five year old further up the feild running after is ball though .
pedromcgrory
05-Jun-06, 23:38
that would be the obvious answer. but why should a fence be erected in the first place? again back to the original statement i made, in my opinion it is not needed. all that is needed is common sense.
last thing im going to say on this post im sick of replying ,if there was a fence like there is already bits of fence ,every so yard then gaps why not finish it off then today wouldnt of happened would it can u understand that?tug????
Tugmistress
05-Jun-06, 23:49
last thing im going to say on this post im sick of replying ,if there was a fence like there is already bits of fence ,every so yard then gaps why not finish it off then today wouldnt of happened would it can u understand that?tug????
yes i can understand that today maybe would not have happened if there were a fence there, maybe the cart would have rolled into the road in a different situation. who knows.
to answer rheghead, someone with 10 pints inside them wobbling back up to scrabster from skinandis would be well advised to use the roadside path not the cliffside path as even a fence would not stop 'piddled pranksters' taking a dive.
to answer icebox, and neither would a fence stop a five year old running after his ball as the ball would still go through and over, and so would a five year old if unsupervised.
i am sorry for your loss icebox, as i have said before, accidents can and will happen. this has been an unfortunate series of events and an accident.
yes i can understand that today maybe would not have happened if there were a fence there, maybe the cart would have rolled into the road in a different situation. who knows.
to answer rheghead, someone with 10 pints inside them wobbling back up to scrabster from skinandis would be well advised to use the roadside path not the cliffside path as even a fence would not stop 'piddled pranksters' taking a dive.
to answer icebox, and neither would a fence stop a five year old running after his ball as the ball would still go through and over, and so would a five year old if unsupervised.
i am sorry for your loss icebox, as i have said before, accidents can and will happen. this has been an unfortunate series of events and an accident.
Yes accident happen but there was nothing there to stop the person from falling. If there was a fence then he or she would of had a better chance or it would prevented it from happening ... wonder what the health and safety would have to say about it .
webmannie
06-Jun-06, 00:06
Guess someone needs to do a proper risk assessment. Seems to me that there is a high probability of slipping and going over along the viccy. It's happened too often and within a relatively short timeframe.
There has been more than one death. A friend of mine died when he 'fell' walking back from the Weigh Inn, seem to remember another. Schoolfriend fell and nearly killed hisel. Though we did question whether it actually knocked some sense into him! A man slipped trying to rescue his dog and broke his neck, another wifie ending up in a wheelchair.
I'm sure there are others i've missed, wonder if they'll send streetsweepers along the viccy again?
I hope he makes a full recovery and something positive happens as a result of his misfortune!
Tugmistress
06-Jun-06, 00:12
if a risk assessment deems it necessary to have a fence erected then one would go up. that would set a precedence for a fence to be erected round the whole of the uk though wouldn't it? or certainly scotland as all parts are accesible to those who want to? where do we draw the line to not being in a cage?
if a risk assessment deems it necessary to have a fence erected then one would go up. that would set a precedence for a fence to be erected round the whole of the uk though wouldn't it? or certainly scotland as all parts are accesible to those who want to? where do we draw the line to not being in a cage?Now your talking rubbuish this path is right on the town there is the public there is kids playin in the park where you going to find a kids playin off of holburn head or noss head . This is in the town there quick enough putting barriers up at the coner of top joe's why not along the cliff edge and you talk about common sense i cant tell you were your comon sense is and it aint were it should be .
Tugmistress
06-Jun-06, 00:23
ice box, read my post again, i used the quaetion mark, i was asking a question.
i also said that if a risk assessment were made and it was deemed necessary one would be erected :D
Its hardly going to cage of scotland its ? its just a peace of mind knowing it would happen so easy next time .(god forbid it never happen again ) As pedro said how many lives will it take before something is done .
It's my understanding the round table or the rotary club, not sure which, offered to provide the manpower to build a fence for free if the council or local sponsorship would pay for materials.
Why dont you all write a letter to your local mp demanding that the council erect a fence along this path, then the council would have to act.Also contact the health and safety people and other similar organisations to back you up.
changilass
06-Jun-06, 02:10
I am with you on this one Tuggs, but in these days of sue and be damned, are we to risk having to pay out more in taxes because the council have to pay out big time to those who have no common sense and stupidly go to close to what is very obviously a dangerous edge.
Before anyone bites my head off, YES I do know that accidents happen, and also that we all react instinctively (I was once stupid enough to chase after a numpty who stole my handbag - only to end up with a black eye).
But to put barriers up, that can rot, whilst still giving someone a false sense of security, to my mind, is a grave over reaction.
As has been said before, all that will happen is kids playing chicken causing even more heartache.
My sympathys go to the family of the man who fell and I hope he gets better soon.
moonshadow
06-Jun-06, 02:50
i just feel the need to say my two pennys worth...
i hate the idea of the beautiful natural countryside being disfigured with ugly fences.
is that what you want? everywhere i go theres fences blocking the scenery. warning signs are one thing but to have fences appearing everywhere i see as an insult.
pedromcgrory
06-Jun-06, 03:04
i just feel the need to say my two pennys worth...
i hate the idea of the beautiful natural countryside being disfigured with ugly fences.
is that what you want? everywhere i go theres fences blocking the scenery. warning signs are one thing but to have fences appearing everywhere i see as an insult.
wot u on about lad theres fences and gaps we no fences all along there so wots the difference ???
pedromcgrory
06-Jun-06, 03:06
i just feel the need to say my two pennys worth...
i hate the idea of the beautiful natural countryside being disfigured with ugly fences.
is that what you want? everywhere i go theres fences blocking the scenery. warning signs are one thing but to have fences appearing everywhere i see as an insult.well u live in wick so it dont matter much wot ur mouth says anyway but if it was ur familly that fell over it would i guess be a different story
pedromcgrory
06-Jun-06, 03:15
I am with you on this one Tuggs, but in these days of sue and be damned, are we to risk having to pay out more in taxes because the council have to pay out big time to those who have no common sense and stupidly go to close to what is very obviously a dangerous edge.
Before anyone bites my head off, YES I do know that accidents happen, and also that we all react instinctively (I was once stupid enough to chase after a numpty who stole my handbag - only to end up with a black eye).
But to put barriers up, that can rot, whilst still giving someone a false sense of security, to my mind, is a grave over reaction.
As has been said before, all that will happen is kids playing chicken causing even more heartache.
My sympathys go to the family of the man who fell and I hope he gets better soon.symphathy i u all say that but the point is ur in castletown ,wot u on about rot ,i guess u mean the wood well thats easy fixed or replaced so if ur an expert on railings or fencing id like to hear ur story off rotten wood or faulty barriers taxes u think ur the only one the man that fell he was working do u think he paid his last tax to fall over think not stick up for tug all u want but she knows she was wrong in all her posts tonight surley ur an incomer to tell u uwot u get council to pay for it im at wound up about stupid people who think there high class on about something that dosent concern them ,stubborn is the word ,or should i say incomers again. il do it for free if stuff woz supplied
pedromcgrory
06-Jun-06, 03:33
I am with you on this one Tuggs, but in these days of sue and be damned, are we to risk having to pay out more in taxes because the council have to pay out big time to those who have no common sense and stupidly go to close to what is very obviously a dangerous edge.
Before anyone bites my head off, YES I do know that accidents happen, and also that we all react instinctively (I was once stupid enough to chase after a numpty who stole my handbag - only to end up with a black eye).
But to put barriers up, that can rot, whilst still giving someone a false sense of security, to my mind, is a grave over reaction.
As has been said before, all that will happen is kids playing chicken causing even more heartache.
My sympathys go to the family of the man who fell and I hope he gets better soon.get real dont have a clue wot ur on about do u ,wait answer coming mmmm computer says no''''''''''''''
Mr P Cannop
06-Jun-06, 06:48
this is getting way over the top with this posts
well u live in wick so it dont matter much wot ur mouth says anyway but if it was ur familly that fell over it would i guess be a different story
Mr Mcgrory
It doesn't matter a hoot if a person lives in Wick, Castletown, Halkirk, etc. I say if they pay their council tax, they are more than entitled to do so. It will be their money that pays for a fence. They are expressing an opinion in a fairly sensible way, unlike you who is taking to personal slagging of people.
GROW UP!
The Loafer
at Dunnet Head last weekend we saw a real NUMPTY climb over the fence just to get nearer the edge and look at the birds
Tugmistress
06-Jun-06, 09:35
symphathy i u all say that but the point is ur in castletown ,wot u on about rot ,i guess u mean the wood well thats easy fixed or replaced so if ur an expert on railings or fencing id like to hear ur story off rotten wood or faulty barriers taxes u think ur the only one the man that fell he was working do u think he paid his last tax to fall over think not stick up for tug all u want but she knows she was wrong in all her posts tonight surley ur an incomer to tell u uwot u get council to pay for it im at wound up about stupid people who think there high class on about something that dosent concern them ,stubborn is the word ,or should i say incomers again. il do it for free if stuff woz supplied
I am not wrong and I am not right either pedro. I merely stated an opinion. or am i, as an incomer, not allowed one?
Where cliffs are very busy or near populated areas it makes sense for them to have a fence. if the path is regularly used by children coming home from school, people working, children playing in a park, people coming home from the pub then it makes sense to have a fence.
Where cliffs are away from populated areas then they should be left - even if there is a path. If people make a special trip to walk a clifftop path then they should already be aware that its dangerous and they need to take care. with everyday traffic there is a risk of distraction and people being in a hurry or having had a drink or simply an accident and there should be a fence.
Pedro you need to work on your debating skills - bad mouthing people doesnt help to change their opinions it just annoys them :roll:
dunderheed
06-Jun-06, 11:05
i also agree with tugmisstress but as an incomer to this area , i wasn't going to comment as pedro seems to think our opinions don't count, however i too feel that a fence is unwarranted. i think the solution to the problem is easier , correct me if i'm wrong but dont the council own the ground where the park and caravan site are situated? surely the answer is to move the pathway further away from the cliff top.
this way any compulsive actions will be ok, who's to say that if a fence was in place that the weight of the cart and its momentum wouldn't have carried the council worker through it and over the edge?
i too would also like to pass on my best wishes for a speedy recovery to the council worker involved.
Cant believe i'm hearing this you lot would rather think about the scenery than someones live has any of yous got a heart .the council job is to provide a well maintained and safe environment to the public . Like i say what would the health and safety say if they did a risk assessment on it . (first thing would be how can prevent someone from falling erect a fence or barrier )
Someone should get a petition going just to what the hole of thurso think about it .
Niall Fernie
06-Jun-06, 11:46
Would you also like the council to come round a fit bars on your windows in case you fall out? a gate at the top of your stairs? blockers in all your sockets? a fireguard? How about someone to cook for you incase you burn yourself on the hob? how about a "tommy-tippy" cup for you tea/coffee?
I'm sorry but I for one am not prepared to pay the council to be responsible for anyone who does not want to be responsible for themselves. Yes there are accidents and always will be but why should we, the council tax payers be held accountable (at least in our bills) for the actions of an individual. There seem to be a growing number of people who look for someone else to blame for their own misfortune. We are already paying for the rescue and medical aid. How long will it be before we have to sign a release form in order to leave the house?
I had to physically go round houses with a petition I had personally drawn up just to get the council to paint and fix our local swingpark so what chance is there of them actually maintaining a fence if one is erected and a rotten fence is way more dangerous than no fence. It gives false security.
pedromcgrory
06-Jun-06, 12:07
Would you also like the council to come round a fit bars on your windows in case you fall out? a gate at the top of your stairs? blockers in all your sockets? a fireguard? How about someone to cook for you incase you burn yourself on the hob? how about a "tommy-tippy" cup for you tea/coffee?
I'm sorry but I for one am not prepared to pay the council to be responsible for anyone who does not want to be responsible for themselves. Yes there are accidents and always will be but why should we, the council tax payers be held accountable (at least in our bills) for the actions of an individual. There seem to be a growing number of people who look for someone else to blame for their own misfortune. We are already paying for the rescue and medical aid. How long will it be before we have to sign a release form in order to leave the house?its a fence its not a multimillion pound complex we lifeguards etc ,im sure if one of the fernie clan fell off u would have something to moan about
scrapydoo
06-Jun-06, 12:34
Either way the accidents are still happening with no fence being there, so if the council where to erect a fence and an accident did happen again at least they had made every effort to stop the inevitable from happening again.
dunderheed
06-Jun-06, 12:37
i've been thinking of this most of the morning now, correct me if i'm wrong but if a fence was put in place and someone still manged to fall wouldn't the council be held liable in a legal suit for damages , whereas at the moment as there is no fence there is no liability?
dunderheed
06-Jun-06, 12:39
forgot to mention don't the council cover their liability at the moment with the signs saying that the paths can be dangerous and should only be used by people at their own risk?
Hmm, I think a little bit of perspective might be useful here...
This surely isn't an issue of creating the ultimate nanny state by fencing in the whole country, nor it is simply an issue of personal responsibility and/or liberty. Young_fishin_neep suggested building a fence along the clifftop at Victoria Walk. This can be a busy area, and the cliffs are fairly close to the path, so the idea isn't crazy. Surely we can debate the suggestion without descending into personal attacks and far-fetched generalisations.
I don't have strong views on the issue, but surely the idea of a relatively-unobtrusive clifftop fence from the beach-end of Victoria Walk to (say) the west end of the campsite isn't completely crazy. (It could even continue as far as Burnside, but that seems less important.)
As some folk have pointed out, any fence (or railings) would have to be sufficiently-substantial that it wouldn't collapse when leant on. It should also be capable of stopping small kiddies slipping through it, and it would have to be built far enough back from the edge to avoid possible damage due to cliff erosion. Yes, I know the clifftop is anything but straight, so the fence would either be very "wiggly" or it would cut off corners, but these are secondary issues.
Convinced? No, nor am I, but sufficiently many people have gone "over the edge" in recent years that the idea surely deserves discussion.
first of all best wishes to Johnny and his family - hope he makes a speedy recovery.
I personnally would hate to see the area along the cliff fenced in, the path is not near the edge and is, for the most sunken, so anyone pushing a pram etc would, in most cases have to make an effort to get it off the path, as for toddlers running about - it's not the right place for kids to be running about - quite simple!
If the council were to erect a fence (a dangerous task in itself I would have thought), I would think it would be a nightmare to maintain. Are the cliffs erroding? presumable by the nature of them they would be - in which case the fence would need regular testing etc - if the council put up a fence and someone leaned on it and it collapsed there would be hell to pay! I also think a fence would just be an inivitation for folk to climb on it.
This has been a terrible accident but lets not over react
Mr P Cannop
06-Jun-06, 13:17
first of all best wishes to Johnny and his family - hope he makes a speedy recovery.
I personnally would hate to see the area along the cliff fenced in, the path is not near the edge and is, for the most sunken, so anyone pushing a pram etc would, in most cases have to make an effort to get it off the path, as for toddlers running about - it's not the right place for kids to be running about - quite simple!
If the council were to erect a fence (a dangerous task in itself I would have thought), I would think it would be a nightmare to maintain. Are the cliffs erroding? presumable by the nature of them they would be - in which case the fence would need regular testing etc - if the council put up a fence and someone leaned on it and it collapsed there would be hell to pay! I also think a fence would just be an inivitation for folk to climb on it.
This has been a terrible accident but lets not over react
i agree with this post
pultneytooner
06-Jun-06, 13:19
Cliffs, eroding or not, are dangerous places, common sense says, 'stay away from the edge' or there is a risk of slipping or falling over.
Kids in the company of adults should never be allowed to run about near a cliff edge and if they are then those adults are guilty of being totaly irresponsible but on the other hand some kids go to these places with their mates to fish or even to explore or climb the rocks, they can't and won't let themselves be watched the whole time and having a fence won't make much of a difference.
pedromcgrory
06-Jun-06, 13:20
first of all best wishes to Johnny and his family - hope he makes a speedy recovery.
I personnally would hate to see the area along the cliff fenced in, the path is not near the edge and is, for the most sunken, so anyone pushing a pram etc would, in most cases have to make an effort to get it off the path, as for toddlers running about - it's not the right place for kids to be running about - quite simple!
If the council were to erect a fence (a dangerous task in itself I would have thought), I would think it would be a nightmare to maintain. Are the cliffs erroding? presumable by the nature of them they would be - in which case the fence would need regular testing etc - if the council put up a fence and someone leaned on it and it collapsed there would be hell to pay! I also think a fence would just be an inivitation for folk to climb on it.
This has been a terrible accident but lets not over reacttheres fences there already ????????have they collapsed and rotted mmmm no
just heard from a relative of the person involved that he has 2 broken leg's a broken wrist and a broken elbow and there not worried about any thing else at this stage,
In defence of the poor man who fell and is being called a numpty , it is human instinct to try and save something falling, and i'm sure he did not have time to stop and think ' is this safe?' Also, the cart that he attempted to save costs a lot of money, anything up to £1000 and if he had let it fall he would probably have been told to pay for the replacement, a sum of money i'm sure not many people would be willing to pay when it could have been saved and it wasn't your fault. So if he had time to think, i'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to pay for the cart.
dragonfly
06-Jun-06, 16:51
I walk that path most nights with my dog and often meet the guy in question when he's walking his so its not as if he is unfamiliar with the area.
I personally don't think it should be fenced in anymore than it is now, the parts of the path closest to the cliffs do have fencing and there are large signs warning of the dangers at both ends and in the middle.
As someone else stated most of the accidents (not all I know) were due to persons being under the influence.
I wish him a speedy recovery and hope to see him and his dog out for their walks again soon
rockchick
06-Jun-06, 18:24
I have to say I agree with Tugmistress on this one.
I've been walking this pathway in all weathers with my wee doggie for some time now, and have never been in danger of blowing off the cliffs. If you stay on the path the likelihood of falling off is nil. I also walk the pathway along the riverside, where I am within an arms length of cold flowing water with no barrier whatsoever between the path and the river. Should I expect the council to erect a barrier there.
If the council's duty of care to their own employees doesn't require them to erect a safety barrier along this cliffside, then the duty of care owed to the general public certainly won't either.
engiebenjy
06-Jun-06, 19:30
its a fence its not a multimillion pound complex we lifeguards etc ,im sure if one of the fernie clan fell off u would have something to moan about
you know what, I used to really enjoy reading these threads for the banter. However, this is the kind of thing that is putting me off more and more. The org just seems to be becoming a place to slag people off, and it's often not very funny at all.
you know what, I used to really enjoy reading these threads for the banter. However, this is the kind of thing that is putting me off more and more. The org just seems to be becoming a place to slag people off, and it's often not very funny at all.
well said engiebenjy.
you know what, I used to really enjoy reading these threads for the banter. However, this is the kind of thing that is putting me off more and more. The org just seems to be becoming a place to slag people off, and it's often not very funny at all.
Completely agree with you.
pedromcgrory
06-Jun-06, 20:57
you know what, I used to really enjoy reading these threads for the banter. However, this is the kind of thing that is putting me off more and more. The org just seems to be becoming a place to slag people off, and it's often not very funny at all.wots wrong with wot i wrote?
kwbrown111
06-Jun-06, 22:53
i know Johnny pretty well but also know as much as him about what to avoid at victoria walk. I have lived here all my life and from about 6 or 7 years old have been on the walk even long before burnside was built used to play at the old watch post. I honestly can't see where any danger is on it if you're being careful. as some say accidents do happen no matter how careful you are, the walk does not need any more fences to spoil what is a good walk. i think personally crossing at the old post office and what used to be hamish camerons is a lot more dangerous by miles
engiebenjy
06-Jun-06, 23:01
wots wrong with wot i wrote?
I'm not getting drawn into an argument. I was merely making the point that all too often recently, threads have degenerated into personal slanging matches - not a light hearted banter which can be a good laugh to read. i.e. are 'incomers' not allowed an opinion? Let me draw you back to your reply to tugmistress' post re astronomy from yesterday. It appears to have been removed, but those who did read it and post will probably agree with me - your post was completely uncalled for. You are not the only guilty party I will admit - there are more. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, whether right or wrong - there's just no need to be so pointedly rude. Nuff said.
totally agree with kw brown 111.used to play there and swim in the rock well all the time when kids with no problems.
kwbrown111
06-Jun-06, 23:26
ah the old rockwell did used to be dangerous but thrilling all the same. Memories
ah the old rockwell did used to be dangerous but thrilling all the same. Memories
Spent most of my childhood in and around the rocks, the cliffs,the beach, the harbour and Scrabster. There was no need for fences then or now. I cannot ever recall a child going over the edge. Perhaps the bairns have more sense.
I first and foremost hope that Johnny comes out of this ok, he has had a hell of a year.
I have to object to all the people that say that the people who have had accidents on the are less than average IQ because they have had an accident. Hands up whos never had an accident of any kind!
This is turning into another you say black, I say white thread. Although I can walk along the walk and feel safe enough, and I know it has been said before but accidents do happen.
What is the problem of a fence going up? How much did the rescue mission cost on Monday? How much has all the previous emergency call outs cost? How much has hospital billls cost? How much pain and suffering of the people who have these accidents and there families?
Its only a fence! Wouldn't cost that much.
I first and foremost hope that Johnny comes out of this ok, he has had a hell of a year.
I have to object to all the people that say that the people who have had accidents on the are less than average IQ because they have had an accident. Hands up whos never had an accident of any kind!
This is turning into another you say black, I say white thread. Although I can walk along the walk and feel safe enough, and I know it has been said before but accidents do happen.
What is the problem of a fence going up? How much did the rescue mission cost on Monday? How much has all the previous emergency call outs cost? How much has hospital billls cost? How much pain and suffering of the people who have these accidents and there families?
Its only a fence! Wouldn't cost that much.I absolutely agree with you how much would it cost and think of the money and lives that would be saved . What harm would it be to put a fence up and i cant see it spoiling the view there more to life than a view and scenery .
I absolutely agree with you how much would it cost and think of the money and lives that would be saved . What harm would it be to put a fence up and i cant see it spoiling the view there more to life than a view and scenery .
Why should a fence go around the coastline by Thurso, what about the rest of the county. I often take a walk around higher cliff's than that off which the poor man fell over, around Wick we have The Old Man,Noss Head,Sarclet,even the steps at Whaligoe,none of which are fenced off. No. I am sorry to say it was an accident but it is the same old saying "comman Sense" when around such places.
First of all, yes I'm in Glasgow, but have walked that path several times with and without my children.
What does Johnny, lying in his hospital bed, now think??
I suspect, he'll blame himself and not the lack of fencing.
If I'd left my car's handbrake off and it rolled down the hill, with myriad consequences, should I be looking for the council to take measures?
What next for the nannies amongst you all??
Barriers round the kitchen to keep you away from the cooker?
Thermostatically controlled lids for your teacups so you don't drink it when it's too hot?
A kettle has a handle so you dont burn yourself when you lift it, cliff tops have paths to guide you safely.
Common sense prevails, accidents happen but invariably through human error.
Interesting thread though!!
Oh and anyone buying one of these houses at the Scrabster end of the path.
Well you know!!............................
Ducks for cover.......
Why should a fence go around the coastline by Thurso, what about the rest of the county. I often take a walk around higher cliff's than that off which the poor man fell over, around Wick we have The Old Man,Noss Head,Sarclet,even the steps at Whaligoe,none of which are fenced off. No. I am sorry to say it was an accident but it is the same old saying "comman Sense" when around such places.Yes i agree with you but there not in the town and there not a swing park right next to it is there ? i cant see childern walking out to noss or old man look there was a fence there before so why can a fence be there again . it would be a different story if the shoe was on the other feet .
okay - move the path to the inside of the swing park and camp site - there is already a wall there!
Tugmistress
07-Jun-06, 14:30
just as a matter of interest, i have put a new poll on my site, asking whether Thurso cliffs need to be fenced or not. i think it is on all the pages so any you come across you can use, feel free to have a vote i think it would be interesting to see the results.
webmannie
07-Jun-06, 17:50
move the path to the inside of the swing park and camp site
now there is a simple solution, what's peoples thoughts on that then?
Also where have all the politicians/councillors gone, they're normally very quick to comment on things like this. Councillors too scared? Rob Gibson et al too busy?
young_fishin_neep
07-Jun-06, 19:09
after a long catup on the thread i have come to a conclusion that alot of people whouldnt want to see a fence, but why would it spoil the veiw? you can see through it!! also people dont want to risk paying more tax for it, but surely you may be paying tax knowing that you would be SAFER (emphasizeing safer as i know fences can become eroded an dangerous after a while especially in some of the weather conditions we get up here!!)
i also agree to the comment on maybe moving the path up abit, it would make sence but wouldnt that cost more money than putting up a fence especaily if there is people willling to do the labour if given the wood?
kaz xx
Ok,you put a fence up,next you'll have someone trying to be smart and climb over it.Next barbed wire on top of the fence,where does it end.
Are the council now liable to pay the poor guy liability for his injuries?
It's my understanding (and I may be wrong) that the "dangerous cliffs" signs were a kind of get out clause by the council for people using the path. This could legally be seen as a "use it at your own risk" statement.
However, if he has been told to clean the path as part of his job, this "use it at your own risk" stance is lost. It is the councils responsibility to ensure his work area is safe.
I know from my work that a "don't touch the live wire" statement would not be considered to be a safe remedial action from a risk assessment. If an employer identifies a risk ("warning dangerous cliffs" or "risk of electrical shock") then they have a legal obligation to mitigate the risks ("fence" or "pull a fuse").
I dont want to see every cliff in caithness fenced off, but the Victoria walk is now part of an urban area and regular throughfare, not a country walk.
Don't bite my head off orgers, but I reckon the council will have to do something now.
after a long catup on the thread i have come to a conclusion that alot of people whouldnt want to see a fence, but why would it spoil the veiw? you can see through it!! also people dont want to risk paying more tax for it, but surely you may be paying tax knowing that you would be SAFER (emphasizeing safer as i know fences can become eroded an dangerous after a while especially in some of the weather conditions we get up here!!)
i also agree to the comment on maybe moving the path up abit, it would make sence but wouldnt that cost more money than putting up a fence especaily if there is people willling to do the labour if given the wood?
kaz xx
the existing path is basically just an area where the turf has been removed - can't see how this would be expensive to move - cut the turf from the new route and relay it in the old path - where are all these young offenders etc?
sounds like an ideal project for them to me!
the existing path is basically just an area where the turf has been removed - can't see how this would be expensive to move - cut the turf from the new route and relay it in the old path - where are all these young offenders etc?
sounds like an ideal project for them to me!
Exactly jay, an ideal thing for all those on commumity service.
It should be fenced off because its a popular walk for all ages and cost shouldnt come into it if its in the interest of safety even if its just fenced off in the worst bits its better than nothing at all and its not the first time this has happened
kwbrown111
08-Jun-06, 22:49
Anyone hear how he's doing now.
Dog-eared
09-Jun-06, 01:38
It is very close to a tourist campsite , and there is no guarantee that ordinary / elderly / pissed / stoned / young people visiting Thurso have any idea of the dangers posed so close by.They are here relaxing but are used to doing so in a more controlled environment than we locals are used to.They are often from a rural environment and unaccustomed to these risks posed by high cliffs so close to a footpath.. It is not the same as risks perceived by them in cities etc. I think it would be very bad for Caithness if we lose tourists , or locals , down that cliff.
The view to Orkney on a summers evening will always draw people to the path , so why not make a couple of hundred yards of it safe?
But let's not fence off all of Scotland's beauty , eh/
young_fishin_neep
09-Jun-06, 16:27
It is very close to a tourist campsite , and there is no guarantee that ordinary / elderly / pissed / stoned / young people visiting Thurso have any idea of the dangers posed so close by.They are here relaxing but are used to doing so in a more controlled environment than we locals are used to.They are often from a rural environment and unaccustomed to these risks posed by high cliffs so close to a footpath.. It is not the same as risks perceived by them in cities etc. I think it would be very bad for Caithness if we lose tourists , or locals , down that cliff.
The view to Orkney on a summers evening will always draw people to the path , so why not make a couple of hundred yards of it safe?
But let's not fence off all of Scotland's beauty , eh/
i have to say i totaly agree with ur post, to me it just makes more sence to know that there is a little bit more safety there than there is already, there is no harm in trying to help stop the risks of falling down, just putting up a fence in the *bad* areas to me would maybe be no use as there is still areas that people can fall down.
kaz xx
The problem with a new Council fence is that it's existence can also increase liabilty, and could be seen as an admission about the past.
First its construction says that you recognise the pastdanger and then if it is damaged or fails to prevent an accident you are in more trouble particularly if people go right to the edge to lean on it.
Setting the path back sounds like good sense and how about establishing some good prickly gorse bushes at the worst places if they can be made to grow and they should certainly cause less visual offence that a fence.
I always thought the harbour more dangerous with its bollards, ropes and other bits and pieces at the edge and how did we achieve a hundred or more years without any accidents on the Victoria Walk until now?
The other interesting aspect is that an employers duty of care is reckoned to be higher to their employees than to a member of the public and no doubt this will come out in any inquiry into the accident.
I always thought the harbour more dangerous with its bollards, ropes and other bits and pieces at the edge and how did we achieve a hundred or more years without any accidents on the Victoria Walk until now.
What evidence do you have to make the assertion that there hasn't been any accidents on Victoria walk in the last 100 years until now?:confused
AND they've closed the walk round the cliffs on the north side of Wick because it is dangerous, so the notice says. Why can't they just put up barriers? I kinda liked that walk.
Welll Rheghead, I only have about 60 years knowledge of Thurso and although I don't live there now I like to keep in touch and the first account I ever heard of a fall from the path involved a classmate of mine about 10 to 15 years ago. I also have a keen interest in cliffs through climbing for many years and time in a mountain rescue team.
I can't give you a date for the creation of the Victoria walk but I'm guessing that it was one of many projects done to mark the queen's jubilee.
willowbankbear
28-Jun-06, 18:25
I used to go that way everyday & so did a few others, It is said to be dangerous in the section nearest the town but I cant see where? If anything, it is more dodgy further out the head just past the war monument , above the 2nd cave. It does have a fence on the seaward side though.
I tripped over a kerb once. Can I have all kerbs fenced off?
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