View Full Version : Middle class.
John Little
04-May-10, 20:51
On another thread there were a couple of people who made derogatory remarks aimed at the middle class. I thought they were quite middle class to make them- whatever that means. But the tone of their remarks lacked a certain working class down to earth character.
Thatcher of course said that we are all middle class now.
But I had a good look at myself lately. Dad started down the pit as an electrician and Mam started as a weaver. Solid working class roots same as a lot of folk.
But I have a nice house, reasonable car,money in the bank, job, g0ood education, nice holidays and so on and I actually do not see anything to be derogatory about. Aspirational middle class is cool as far as I am concerned.
I don't mean in a snobby keeping up with the Joneses kind of way, but John Lewis do good stuff at good prices. And they let you buy stuff on tick.
And a lot of people here run their own businesses, own their own homes, have flat screen tellies, 4x4s, money in the bank.
And there's an argument that it's the middle class who form the entrepreneur.business class that makes for prosperity and jobs, and pays taxes to pay for services.
So what, exactly is wrong with being Middle class?
Or are we content to dismiss entire segments of the population with a loose sound-bite and generic stereotypes?
So I'm coming out and proud.
I'm middle class so BOO!
It is such an outmoded concept as to be meaningless. When it meant anything, it meant one step down from the landed gentry.
I've never really understood how you differentiated someone from working class or middle class particularly as the job for life concept went out the window. People have a varied bunch of jobs these days throughout a career spanning 30 or 40 years. (I have anyway).:eek:
Richard Branson would tell you he is working class :lol:
John Little
04-May-10, 21:17
Richard Branson would tell you he is working class :lol:
Aye he probably would- and he'd be a lying sleaze when he did.
Outmoded it may be, but people use it and sneer about it.
But anyone who drives Ducatis and Bugattis..... how do you class yourself?
Lister in Red Dwarf one did a diatribe about the middle class having 'wine' on their cornflakes. But I like wine. I know Trix likes wine cos she said so the other night.
Do you?
And do you like John Lewis and aspire to Patios, barbeques, well behaved children and quality soft furnishings?
And is Fred middle class - Fred you there?????
personally I think class is a state of mind and a sense of roots all rolled into one.
The class system is still alive and kicking and I know where I fit into the scale quite nicely. ;)
Aye he probably would- and he'd be a lying sleaze when he did.
Outmoded it may be, but people use it and sneer about it.
But anyone who drives Ducatis and Bugattis..... how do you class yourself?
Lister in Red Dwarf one did a diatribe about the middle class having 'wine' on their cornflakes. But I like wine. I know Trix likes wine cos she said so the other night.
Do you?
And do you like John Lewis and aspire to Patios, barbeques, well behaved children and quality soft furnishings?
And is Fred middle class - Fred you there?????
Well from a previous thread you will know I am very fond of soft furnishings ;)
Not my Buggati I'm afraid-I wish (I can't believe the MODs moved that to cars for sale :lol: it was competing for attention with Citreon Saxos).:Razz
Anyway, if you are asking am I posh ? I would merely say: one has one's standards to maintain.
And is Fred middle class - Fred you there?????
The Cancer Research shop doesn't let me have my clothes on tick.
John Little
04-May-10, 22:27
That's very middle class - I have a few things from there!!
I think you would have more class if you described yourself as bourgeois particularly as Kent is way closer to France than Caithness.
You’ll find that the people who bang on most about ‘class’ are those that don’t have any. ;)
As for anyone claiming they’re ‘working class’ when they are in fact middle class, that’s just a front for saying, “I was there and now I am here – didn’t I do well!”
You’ll find that the people who bang on most about ‘class’ are those that don’t have any. ;)
As for anyone claiming they’re ‘working class’ when they are in fact middle class, that’s just a front for saying, “I was there and now I am here – didn’t I do well!”
Many years ago I started out on the bottom rung of the ladder of success and through hard work and determination I gradually worked my way down.
OOoooo it goes against my grain to think that I am middle class, working class or whatever class ... I dislike the though of being categorized, sorry but this just IMHO.
Throughout my life I have been in every class, its the highs & lows of life.
Think I must be one of the people Jarvis Cocker sang about.
oldmarine
05-May-10, 03:03
Nothing to be ashamed to be in middle class. It's not a derogatory term. In fact it's something to be proud of as a working person who works for a living.
Aaldtimer
05-May-10, 03:13
"I started out with nothing...still got most of it left!"
"If I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all!"
Appropriate quotes from some Blues singers!
I'm in a class of my own...;)
northener
05-May-10, 07:16
It's an redundant social classification system generally used these days by those with a need to express their perceived 'position' in society - or by those with a chip on their shoulder about either their own or other peoples' percieved 'position'...and the odd communist dinosaur.
The only part of the outdated 'class' means of identifying a heirarchy that is still relevant is the aristocracy. You either are or you aren't - and no amount of self proclamation will change that fact.
In other words you can harbour inflated opinion of yourself and tout to other people that you are 'X' or 'Y' til you're blue in the face - it won't get you any higher than 'upper middle class'. End of.
Then there are those who indulge in inverted snobbery and those who sneer at those who are not of their own 'kind'.
A ridiculous tribal attitude.
porshiepoo
05-May-10, 09:30
I don't like the term middle class, working class etc.
I mean take working class for example. Used to describe people in lower end jobs! What are the lower end jobs? The very jobs that this country is built on and let's face it could not have survived without. Industrialisation is something this country should be proud of, yet the workers would have been regarded as 'working class', a term that has become very derogatory IMO.
I don't think classification of a persons life is necessary, not nowadays. There's nothing wrong with being middle class if that's what society dictates you to be, I just don't think we need the segregation of it.
People work, people don't. People have money, people don't, people have a good education, others don't.
Not one of those things makes a person any more human than the next, probably just more lucky than the next and then only till their luck runs out - as does everyone's eventually! ;)
personally I think class is a state of mind and a sense of roots all rolled into one.
The class system is still alive and kicking and I know where I fit into the scale quite nicely. ;)
A ridiculous tribal attitude.
I agree although I dont think we can write off the class system as though it never ever existed. It's existed since the human race started to live in hordes and still exists to this day in many countries in the world. Although it's not so widely accepted in our country the residue of centuries of complience still holds us down, or at least most of us. Northerner makes a strong defence for not having any of it and I accept that. Although I can rationalise it in my thoughts the reality seems to be different but thats just my experience.
It may manifest itself in different ways nowadays but there's still an invisible class system operating in most communities. Apperently there's even a clique on the org. Cliques come from the same source as a class system. A superiority complex on the part of the individual and paradoxically that same individual often has their own personal inferiority complex.
Nothing queerer than folk.
Boozeburglar
05-May-10, 10:59
There is a class perception alright, still very much there.
The only difference is how easily people can change it.
Some more easily than others though.
Jade Goody, Alan Sugar, etc.
It can be where you came from, where you are, where you are going.
It can be aspirational, financial, cultural.
It may be fluid nowadays, and very different in many ways, but it is still there.
Not a system as such any more, perhaps that is the difference.
I blame women.
Had a Lord and Lady 'B' staying with us, Lady B (who has a limp) was walking down our lounge steps and mentioned "I'm not disabled, I'm a bloody cripple" - I liked that.. what class? :confused
northener
05-May-10, 14:13
I agree although I dont think we can write off the class system as though it never ever existed. It's existed since the human race started to live in hordes and still exists to this day in many countries in the world. Although it's not so widely accepted in our country the residue of centuries of complience still holds us down, or at least most of us. Northerner makes a strong defence for not having any of it and I accept that. Although I can rationalise it in my thoughts the reality seems to be different but thats just my experience.
It may manifest itself in different ways nowadays but there's still an invisible class system operating in most communities. Apperently there's even a clique on the org. Cliques come from the same source as a class system. A superiority complex on the part of the individual and paradoxically that same individual often has their own personal inferiority complex.
Nothing queerer than folk.
I'd certainly agree with those sentiments, old chap.
On another thread there were a couple of people who made derogatory remarks aimed at the middle class. I thought they were quite middle class to make them- whatever that means. But the tone of their remarks lacked a certain working class down to earth character.
Thatcher of course said that we are all middle class now.
But I had a good look at myself lately. Dad started down the pit as an electrician and Mam started as a weaver. Solid working class roots same as a lot of folk.
But I have a nice house, reasonable car,money in the bank, job, g0ood education, nice holidays and so on and I actually do not see anything to be derogatory about. Aspirational middle class is cool as far as I am concerned.
I don't mean in a snobby keeping up with the Joneses kind of way, but John Lewis do good stuff at good prices. And they let you buy stuff on tick.
And a lot of people here run their own businesses, own their own homes, have flat screen tellies, 4x4s, money in the bank.
And there's an argument that it's the middle class who form the entrepreneur.business class that makes for prosperity and jobs, and pays taxes to pay for services.
So what, exactly is wrong with being Middle class?
Or are we content to dismiss entire segments of the population with a loose sound-bite and generic stereotypes?
So I'm coming out and proud.
I'm middle class so BOO!
Thats a good smack in the mouth post an I like it.
northener-it's never ever going to be a redundant sociall classification! this country still runs on that set up. An it probably allways will do.
Help ma boab, I'm lost. Sunday had a white collar round my neck, Monday a blue one and today it's 5 degrees warmer so none at all back to the t shirt.
Remember being totally bemused when first encountering the distinctions in the home counties between lower working class and upper middle class after egalitarian Caithness. Did we take the caste system home from India or give their home grown model a boost. The t.v. series "The Jewel in the Crown" based on the book was a great insight into both races in society out there. I think meritocracy has made big inroads into what went before but often based on totally different attainmants from the past.
Twenty or so years ago E P Thomson wrote a book entitled "The making of the English Working Class."
Karl Marx certainly knew that the bourgeois the capitalists and the working class were representatives of class warfare.
A glance at the works of Emile Zola shows an entire society in the grips of murderous class driven greed.
Have we got over it? Can we put it behind us?
Political correctness thinks we can stop having naughty thoughts about class and other distinctions in our society. If we just hold our tongues....
That's like offering to put on your own blindfold when you are facing the firing squad.
What do you think the entire russian experience in the 20th century was about?
The rich and the very rich sends their kids to Eton and Harrow. How many Orgers got educated there?
I could go on....but this topic is one of the stupidest, made-up, stunts that the Org has ever come up with.
As for the class composition of the Org it's typically lower middle. Somewhere between a house plant and a goldfish.
ah hev 2 an a half jobs...ah work durin 'e day, ah work at night an' ah work at 'e weekend.....
am definately a workin classy lady :cool:
John Little
05-May-10, 19:47
Well I don't know you at all at all but I do think you have class and definitely not anywhere between a house plant and a goldfish.
why, thank ye kind sir....i do try ma best ;)
ah hev 2 an a half jobs...ah work durin 'e day, ah work at night an' ah work at 'e weekend.....
am definately a workin lady
:roll::roll: i am trying to refrain myself
John Little
05-May-10, 20:37
Ah yes - but you like wine - very MC!
ah hev 2 an a half jobs...ah work durin 'e day, ah work at night an' ah work at 'e weekend.....
am definitely a workin lady
:roll::roll: i am trying to refrain myself
excuse me??? i get paid, div ah no??
its only a few dishes...i use the term 'cleaner' very loosely!!!
'ats why i said 2 an a half jobs....
who's openin up tomoro an who gets a lie in??? na na na na na :Razz
an ye forgot 'e "classy" bit :roll:
classy!!!!!! canna imagine you washing the dishes being classy ..even in yer heels:lol:
aye about that ...friday is all yours !!!!!:lol:or if i feel lke a walk will drop eh keys thru yer letter box in a while
if i feel lke a walk will drop eh keys thru yer letter box in a while
ye needna bother :eek:
am in ma bied, all 'iss classyness an sopistication comes at a price ye know :lol:
il take friday then x
Owning a car, property etc doesn't make you middle class. Class isn't only about wealth, there's plenty of millionaires who are very much working class. And even if it was, owning a car is now very much the norm.
Going to university used to be a sign of middle class - certainly not the case now.
Profession used to be a mark - a teacher would have been lower middle class. I'd imagine most tradesmen now make more than a teacher.
I think the class system still exists, but it's changed a lot. There's many unemployable people happy to live on benefit, in the past there was no such system and no such choice. What class are they? Many of the upper classes are now flat broke, with their stately homes crumbling. They're still upper class.
I think many associate the class system with the Victorian view of it but, if the class system still exists, it will be constantly changing along with society.
Whitewater
06-May-10, 00:24
I don't think about 'class' much, I never have. I have friends from all walks of life, we all mix well together. I drink good wine and malt whisky, I also enjoy cider and beer. I do what I want, and I don't really care what other people think of me, and most of my friends don't worry about what I think of them.
Trying to make yourself a particular class is ridiculous, no matter what position you have in the working world, whether you are a labourer, teacher, doctor or manager, if you are drawing a wage you are a worker or working class. Middle class means nothing, it is just a term used by people who think they are better than they are, or a cut above the rest of us. Titled people with vast estates and lands may I guess be classed as higher class, but that is only because the estates are heriditory, they themselves may have done nothing to warrant their class rating, in fact many of them are utterly usless articles, and if forced to make their own way in the world would not even be capable of becoming what is known as working class.
To put it bluntly this class system sham is just a lot of crap, but as can be seen from this thread many of us think we are better than others, I guess that is just the way of life and will always be, some have to lead others have to follow.
thread many of us think we are better than others,
I can't find any post on here that would lead you to be believe anyone thinks they are better than anyone else :confused
My only conclusion is that you have a chip :lol:
oldmarine
07-May-10, 14:50
I don't think about 'class' much, I never have. I have friends from all walks of life, we all mix well together. I drink good wine and malt whisky, I also enjoy cider and beer. I do what I want, and I don't really care what other people think of me, and most of my friends don't worry about what I think of them.
Trying to make yourself a particular class is ridiculous, no matter what position you have in the working world, whether you are a labourer, teacher, doctor or manager, if you are drawing a wage you are a worker or working class. Middle class means nothing, it is just a term used by people who think they are better than they are, or a cut above the rest of us. Titled people with vast estates and lands may I guess be classed as higher class, but that is only because the estates are heriditory, they themselves may have done nothing to warrant their class rating, in fact many of them are utterly usless articles, and if forced to make their own way in the world would not even be capable of becoming what is known as working class.
To put it bluntly this class system sham is just a lot of crap, but as can be seen from this thread many of us think we are better than others, I guess that is just the way of life and will always be, some have to lead others have to follow.
I don't believe 'class' as used in this thread is intended to insult anyone, but is used as in a general statement. Sorry that you feel offended with this term, but I don't believe it was intended as a personal insult to you.
Crackeday
07-May-10, 14:56
I would say I am working class.
I think working class is working for a living and being happy with your lot, knowing your not earning as much as an Architect, doctor etc but still working darn hard for a living, and knowing that you wont get the same recognition as any of the above.
That sums it up for me.
tartanyorkie
07-May-10, 15:22
I would say I am working class.
I think working class is working for a living and being happy with your lot, knowing your not earning as much as an Architect, doctor etc but still working darn hard for a living, and knowing that you wont get the same recognition as any of the above.
That sums it up for me.
I totally agree with this, I am happy to be working class according to this definition but would be even happier if I could get a job. Unfortunately being over 40 does not help. Employers can be so shortsighted.
Class is not determined by how much money or material possessions you have. Most people can have pretty much what they want if they can get credit and very often it's a sign of low self esteem or a need to prove thamselves in some way. Knowing "the price of everything and the value of nothing" might be another way to describe it! So what is class? Does it exist?.............
northener
08-May-10, 00:28
Hmm....
If someone comes from a reasonably wealthy background, with parents who are, say, a dentist and a head teacher, has had a good university education and yet works in a low-paid, low-skill job and lives in a cooncil hoose - is that person middle class or working class?
I would be mortally offended if anyone called me middle class. I'm high class. ;)
Quite agree Crayola! Class is that indefinable quality that you either have or you don't ......and we obviously do.
oldmarine
09-May-10, 15:10
Due to the fact that I had a worthless father I could have been classified as classless. However, on this Mother's Day I wish to proclaim that I had a wonderful mother who raised me to be a Christian. She gave me the desire to make something of myself that my father never did. After serving and fighting during a great war labeled as WW2 I was able to go to college and earn my Bachelor of Science in Engineering. This enabled me to earn a respectable income that helped me in raising my own family. Three of my four children went to college and two of them graduated as honor students. I thank and praise God for my wonderful family. People can place me in any class they want; however, I am thankful for what I do have.
Quite agree Crayola! Class is that indefinable quality that you either have or you don't ......and we obviously do.Absolutely Blarney. Would you care to join me for afternoon tea on the lawn?
To put it bluntly this class system sham is just a lot of crap, but as can be seen from this thread many of us think we are better than others, I guess that is just the way of life and will always be, some have to lead others have to follow.
This is true we need leaders, good ones preferably. As far as I'm concerned the hoi polloi are the salt of the earth!
David Cameron is a real high class toff. He is descended from King William IV and loads of other proper toffs. He attended the same preppy school as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward then he went to Eton and Oxford. All info from WikiP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cameron).
We should invite him for afternoon tea on the Org one Sunday afternoon.
David Cameron is a real high class toff. He is descended from King William IV and loads of other proper toffs. He attended the same preppy school as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward then he went to Eton and Oxford. All info from WikiP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cameron).
We should invite him for afternoon tea on the Org one Sunday afternoon.
I am alledgedly decended to King Colla Uais circa 322 found out by a DNA check, that does not make me a toff, a snob or even Irish lol[lol]
I am alledgedly decended to King Colla Uais circa 322 found out by a DNA check, that does not make me a toff, a snob or even Irish lol[lol]
Chances are everyone is descended from King Colla Uais.
You have two parents, four grandparents, eight great grandparents and so on doubling every generation. Once you get back more than a thousand years you have more ancestors than there were people.
Chances are everyone is descended from King Colla Uais.
You have two parents, four grandparents, eight great grandparents and so on doubling every generation. Once you get back more than a thousand years you have more ancestors than there were people.
Maybe I should have said it is/was only on my paternal side, that I am and notice I said (allegedly) related or allegedly share DNA, I am not fully convinced, so that cuts your equation by 50% Fred
Maybe I should have said it is/was only on my paternal side, that I am and notice I said (allegedly) related or allegedly share DNA, I am not fully convinced, so that cuts your equation by 50% Fred
You do not know it was only on your paternal side, DNA can't tell you who you weren't descended from, only who you were. There is a less than 100% chance that any given gene will be passed on to an offspring so the further back you go in time the greater the probability there will be an ancestor you share no DNA with at all.
I agree although I dont think we can write off the class system as though it never ever existed. It's existed since the human race started to live in hordes and still exists to this day in many countries in the world. Although it's not so widely accepted in our country the residue of centuries of complience still holds us down, or at least most of us. Northerner makes a strong defence for not having any of it and I accept that. Although I can rationalise it in my thoughts the reality seems to be different but thats just my experience.
It may manifest itself in different ways nowadays but there's still an invisible class system operating in most communities. Apperently there's even a clique on the org. Cliques come from the same source as a class system. A superiority complex on the part of the individual and paradoxically that same individual often has their own personal inferiority complex.
Nothing queerer than folk.
I really agree with you on this one. An interesting subject,Northerner and Sage . Like Gleeber being a local local I really do not think we can write off the class system even though we are all God;s children.
Cleggy has toff roots too.
Clegg's paternal grandmother, Kira von Engelhardt, was a Russian Baroness whose family fled the Bolsheviks after the 1917 Russian Revolution. Clegg's paternal grandfather, Hugh Anthony Clegg was the editor of the British Medical Journal for 35 years. Clegg's great-great-grandfather, the Russian nobleman Ignaty Zakrevsky, was attorney general of the imperial Russian senate. His great-great aunt was the writer, Baroness Moura Budberg. Info from WikiP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg) again.
He too went to a preppy school followed by Westminster School in London then Cambridge.
We can ask him to afternoon tea on the Org on the same day David Cameron comes. It will be a super afternoon.
Cleggy has toff roots too.
Info from WikiP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg) again. He too went to a preppy school followed by Westminster School in London then Cambridge.
We can ask him to afternoon tea on the Org on the same day David Cameron comes. It will be a super afternoon.
'Clegg's paternal grandmother, Kira von Engelhardt, was a Russian Baroness whose family fled the Bolsheviks after the 1917 Russian Revolution.'
Can Mrs Beks come too?; her grandmother was a White Russian who fled the Bolsheviks after the 1917 Russian Revolution....
'Clegg's paternal grandmother, Kira von Engelhardt, was a Russian Baroness whose family fled the Bolsheviks after the 1917 Russian Revolution.'
Can Mrs Beks come too?; her grandmother was a White Russian who fled the Bolsheviks after the 1917 Russian Revolution....Yes of course she's invited and she can bring a partner if she wishes. :)
There shall be fresh home-grown strawberries with fresh cream and freshly baked scones with clotted cream all served with expensive French wines. Pimm's shall be provided and I hope Mrs B will bring us some Black Russians.
Music shall be by Edith Piaf. Can someone lend us a croquet set and lawn for the afternoon? A moat with a punt and a duck island would add a final touch of true blue toff.
Oh I say, I am so looking forward to the new posh Org under David and Nick. It shall be spiffing.
Class is quite a loose thing nowadays I feel. Parents generally want their children to have what they didn't have so, in theory, social standing for the ambitious should increase. In these times where more people own property this is a much easier thing to do. I don't think this is class related, more parents wanting their children to have a perceived best start in life.
You do not know it was only on your paternal side, DNA can't tell you who you weren't descended from, only who you were.
Mitochondrial DNA show maternal inheritance so a lack of it here would indicate paternal inheritance.
Class is quite a loose thing nowadays I feel. Parents generally want their children to have what they didn't have so, in theory, social standing for the ambitious should increase. In these times where more people own property this is a much easier thing to do. I don't think this is class related, more parents wanting their children to have a perceived best start in life.
Mitochondrial DNA show maternal inheritance so a lack of it here would indicate paternal inheritance.
But not rule out maternal inheritance.
northener
10-May-10, 15:44
Oh I say, I am so looking forward to the new posh Org under David and Nick. It shall be spiffing.
Indubitably so, Lady C.
If one could obtain an invite to this Club, one would be prepared to allow fellow attendants of this esteemed gathering full and unfettered access to my estate.
But not rule out maternal inheritance.
Actually mitochondrial DNA is really quite stable and shows less tendency towards mutation that Chromosomal DNA so pretty much yeah it does rule it out...
Actually mitochondrial DNA is really quite stable and shows less tendency towards mutation that Chromosomal DNA so pretty much yeah it does rule it out...
Do wish with all my heart an soul, I could reply to that, but not a cat in hells chance. Sorry- but that is my best munch.:)
David Cameron is a real high class toff. He is descended from King William IV and loads of other proper toffs. He attended the same preppy school as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward then he went to Eton and Oxford. All info from WikiP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cameron).
We should invite him for afternoon tea on the Org one Sunday afternoon.
This is all very well, but by the fact he wishes to be a Commoner by virtue of being a Member of the House of Commons he should never be exalted with an invite for tiffin at the .Org.
I insist that any decent class system is led by a dictator (ahem, I nominate ones good self) and with my recent ancestors being from a fine Baronial Estate in the Cheshire countryside I feel I belong, Dharling.
Now please get these Middle Class peasants out of my way, I fear they may be infecting my air.
......don't forget the crustless cucumber sandwiches Lady C! Whenever I have afternoon tea with Liz and Phil they ensure that my favourites are served.
Actually mitochondrial DNA is really quite stable and shows less tendency towards mutation that Chromosomal DNA so pretty much yeah it does rule it out...
Which doesn't rule out the possibility Golach's mother was descended from King Colla Uais. She could well be a descendent who over the generations all the genes carrying his DNA have been lost.
[quote=fred;704615She could well be a descendent who over the generations all the genes carrying his DNA have been lost.[/quote]
Fred the DNA carries the genes not the other way round :roll: There are millions of genes and some do not get lost over time - racial descent is the most obvious one.
Fred the DNA carries the genes not the other way round :roll: There are millions of genes and some do not get lost over time - racial descent is the most obvious one.
But with every gene there is a less than 100% chance of it being passed on to our children so with every generation past the accuracy of a DNA test diminishes. There may be millions of genes but they do not test all of them by any means.
On the other hand, as I have said, we have two parents, four grandparents and so on, the number of ancestors doubles with every generation. The population however is increasing, it isn't rocket science to work out we must be related to the same ancestors several times through different lines, there just weren't that many ancestors.
So if we go back to the fourth century as Golach did that is one thousand seven hundred years at, say, four generations a century, the number of ancestors would have doubled sixty eight times.
Now I'll cheat a little and call it sixty four times to save me doing the math, that's 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 ancestors. That's a very big number, as you can see the chances of two people born in the same geographic area with freedom of movement not sharing many common ancestors is practically zero. In fact not only is it almost a certainty that Golach's mother was descended from King Colla Uais, it's pretty much certain that the vast majority of people in Scotland, if not Europe, are.
Golach is almost certainly descended from several other royal figures, around a third of the population of Britain are descended from William the Conqueror, so why is it Colla is the only one to show up on the DNA test?
Golach is almost certainly descended from several other royal figures, around a third of the population of Britain are descended from William the Conqueror, so why is it Colla is the only one to show up on the DNA test?
Sorry Fred, I am not almost certainly descended, I said allegedly, and I said I was sceptical about the information anyway. I only posted this info as Crayola was saying how blue blooded David Cameron & Nick Clegg were.
Sorry Fred, I am not almost certainly descended, I said allegedly, and I said I was sceptical about the information anyway. I only posted this info as Crayola was saying how blue blooded David Cameron & Nick Clegg were.
It doesn't make much difference what you say, the odds and the statistics remain the same.
But with every gene there is a less than 100% chance of it being passed on to our children so with every generation past the accuracy of a DNA test diminishes. There may be millions of genes but they do not test all of them by any means.
Fred DNA is made up of two types of genes. The genes that code for characteristics and the genes that bulk out the code. The coding genes do change over generation - hence evolution, but the nonsense DNA consists of numerous replications of the same non-coding DNA. This is very stable DNA and tends not to change over time.
Fred you are obviously interested in genetics. Maybe you should do a little research - it is truly fascinating stuff ;)
Anyway this is going OT. But it does sort of indicate a class issue - the aspiration of people to show off knowledge. Knowledge seems to be the new class. With more people going to university and doing Mickey Mouse degrees it makes academia diluted resulting in people arguing with conviction about topics that they seem to know very little about.
Fred DNA is made up of two types of genes. The genes that code for characteristics and the genes that bulk out the code. The coding genes do change over generation - hence evolution, but the nonsense DNA consists of numerous replications of the same non-coding DNA. This is very stable DNA and tends not to change over time.
Fred you are obviously interested in genetics. Maybe you should do a little research - it is truly fascinating stuff ;)
Anyway this is going OT. But it does sort of indicate a class issue - the aspiration of people to show off knowledge. Knowledge seems to be the new class. With more people going to university and doing Mickey Mouse degrees it makes academia diluted resulting in people arguing with conviction about topics that they seem to know very little about.
I know that there are only two tests commonly used by the general public to trace their ancestry, the Y-12 and mtDNA. The Y-12 test would have told nothing about his ancestry through his mother and the mtDNA nothing about his ancestry through his father. It is possible he had both but I doubt it, the tests are still quite expensive and most people just have the one, in this case obviously the Y-12.
So I maintain what I said before you so rudely interrupted is true, Golach does not know from the test he had done if his mother was descended from King Colla Uais or not and statistically it is very near certain that she was.
With more people going to university and doing Mickey Mouse degrees it makes academia diluted resulting in people arguing with conviction about topics that they seem to know very little about.
oooooooOOOOOOooooo, now that's a very middle class statement! :Razz
Yer divnea need a Mickey Mouse Degree to to argue ont' web, a quick slurp o' meths does the trick fer me.
But you can try here:
http://www.disneyinstitute.com/
But they don't do genetics though, so back to any old polytechnic fer that.
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