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NapalmDeath74
30-Apr-10, 15:10
Regarding objections to wind turbines: representations to planning boards are supposed to pertain to practical matters of implementation, rather than the validity of the proposals. Hence in this instance we can be expected to comment on visual intrusion for residents of Scotland visitors, strobe noise etc. but not to question the merits of large scale wind generation.
But the proposals are so grossly misconceived that it makes sense for us to add to the growing chorus of criticism by knowledgeable voices that can neither be motivated by nimbyism or vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
The output being intermittent and in relative terms very low, a massive so-called “back-up” system must remain in place. Since this system inevitably comprises a combination of fossil-fuel, nuclear and hydro power both direct generation and pump storage the variable and unpredictable wind generation element constitutes nothing more than a complication involving far more trouble and expense than is justified by its meagre contribution.
If in 25 years or so we are spending billions in getting rid of rusting forests of derelict wind turbines, we will look back on the folly of backing this pointless, discredited technology. When there are green technologies that could make a serious difference, it is sad to see such environmental vandalism.

John Little
30-Apr-10, 15:58
http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2008/03/31/jet-engine-like-wind-turbine-4-times-more-efficient/

What do you reckon to these?

NapalmDeath74
30-Apr-10, 16:39
http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2008/03/31/jet-engine-like-wind-turbine-4-times-more-efficient/

What do you reckon to these?

Still pointless what ever form they come in, nuclear, hydro energy is the only the way forward!

John Little
30-Apr-10, 17:27
Maybe but Caithness is very rich in wind. Could mean a lot of jobs.....

Gronnuck
30-Apr-10, 17:28
Even if there were wind turbines coast to coast right across Caithness and Sutherland there would be no consistant supply of electrickery. Output would vary so much that an alternative supply would still have to be used. :confused

John Little
30-Apr-10, 17:31
I make no point on that for I know nothing - but it seems to me that if it makes for jobs etc and all that go with it, then...... you know?

olivia
30-Apr-10, 19:44
I make no point on that for I know nothing - but it seems to me that if it makes for jobs etc and all that go with it, then...... you know?
Could you please enlighten us as to how many full time permanent jobs would be created from say the thirty turbine wind farm proposed for Spittal Hill? Sure, there will be jobs during construction, the same with any big industrial project, but they will all go to the successful bidders for the work, possibly from outwith the area. Long term jobs are a myth that is bandied about along with all the other myths to sweeten the bitter pill that is a discredited technology.

John Little
30-Apr-10, 20:42
Why I have not the faintest idea how many jobs would be created that were full time and permanent. I was responding to the vision raised by this;

"If in 25 years or so we are spending billions in getting rid of rusting forests of derelict wind turbines, ..."

I assume- as seems natural, that if there are proposals to build these things then they will need to be constructed. They will need foundations and service roads. They will then need maintenance crews, depots, drivers, people to paint them, engineers, electricians etc.

In fact it seems a logical thing to me that if you create an industry from scratch then it will create a number of jobs, possibly a large number.

If windfarms are a permanent and large scale feature then logistically the crews would have to be locally based. I assume that they would generate a certain amount of income in the local economy.

None of this seems outlandish to me.

As to discreditted technology , I know nothing and I say nothing.

If you read my original post, I merely speculated as to the jobs that might be created.

Is that allowed?

ywindythesecond
30-Apr-10, 20:57
Maybe but Caithness is very rich in wind. Could mean a lot of jobs.....

Well, is it still true that Caithness is rich in wind? When I came here in 1999, people walked at an angle almost all of the time against the wind. It was constant, but that is not the case nowadays.

John Little
30-Apr-10, 20:58
You raise my hopes that when my wife and I set our proposed Caithness cycling tour in action in 2011 it might be a success!

Last time was hard work!

Thumper
30-Apr-10, 21:01
Could you please enlighten us as to how many full time permanent jobs would be created from say the thirty turbine wind farm proposed for Spittal Hill? Sure, there will be jobs during construction, the same with any big industrial project, but they will all go to the successful bidders for the work, possibly from outwith the area. Long term jobs are a myth that is bandied about along with all the other myths to sweeten the bitter pill that is a discredited technology.

Actually there are long term jobs,but they have to be willing to travel all over constructing the turbines,the actual farms when completed dont need very many people to keep them running though so theres a bit of truth in both statements x

calderj
30-Apr-10, 21:35
Could you please enlighten us as to how many full time permanent jobs would be created from say the thirty turbine wind farm proposed for Spittal Hill? Sure, there will be jobs during construction, the same with any big industrial project, but they will all go to the successful bidders for the work, possibly from outwith the area. Long term jobs are a myth that is bandied about along with all the other myths to sweeten the bitter pill that is a discredited technology.


my partner works FULL time in a permanent job puttin up wind turbines and mantaining them. and there are thousands of jobs in the uk which are in the wind industry. i myself think that the wind turbines are nice to look at.

badger
30-Apr-10, 21:47
There will not be many permanent jobs in Caithness and nothing like as many as there could be if the money spent on windfarms was spent instead on improving buildings to make them carbon neutral. This would provide a permanent solution to many of our energy problems and reduce household bills. Wind energy is going to make electricity prices soar as we pay for the huge subsidies.

There are jobs during construction of windfarms, although many will not be local, but after that very few and certainly not enough to compensate for the probable reduction in tourists who won't come to Caithness to look at an industrial landscape.

John Little - if you want to learn more look at this website
http://www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk/index.htm

ducati
30-Apr-10, 21:50
my partner works FULL time in a permanent job puttin up wind turbines and mantaining them. and there are thousands of jobs in the uk which are in the wind industry. i myself think that the wind turbines are nice to look at.

Mmm... Do you live next to 30? ;)

ywindythesecond
30-Apr-10, 21:56
Mmm... Do you live next to 30? ;)
Just interested ducati, do you live next to 30?

ducati
30-Apr-10, 21:57
Just interested ducati, do you live next to 30?

Not yet :eek:

ywindythesecond
30-Apr-10, 22:04
Not yet :eek:
What do you mean "Not yet"?

ducati
30-Apr-10, 23:31
What do you mean "Not yet"?

Yes I was referring to the map posted recently of the proposed windfarms in Caithness.

We have seen how little success can be had from objecting or attending planning meetings.

The area I live in between Wick and Thurso, you won't be able to look in any direction without a (mostly large) windfarm in view.

calderj
01-May-10, 15:37
Mmm... Do you live next to 30? ;)

no but i wouldnt mind then my partner wouldnt have 2 go far 2 work lol x

olivia
01-May-10, 17:11
no but i wouldnt mind then my partner wouldnt have 2 go far 2 work lol x
Will your partner get work from the thousands of off-shore wind turbines that are proposed or does he just do on-shore? Just curious how the system works.

olivia
01-May-10, 17:19
Yes I was referring to the map posted recently of the proposed windfarms in Caithness.

We have seen how little success can be had from objecting or attending planning meetings.

The area I live in between Wick and Thurso, you won't be able to look in any direction without a (mostly large) windfarm in view.

Yep, democracy is dead in Scotland. The feeling is that whatever is said the government will wriggle its way round to justify an approval.

However, I for one will still fight on as hard as I possibly can, for as long as I possibly can, in the hope that one day someone will listen.

Also, for my own peace of mind, so that in time to come when everything is trashed and everyone throws up their hands in horror and says 'how was this allowed to happen' I can at least content myself with the fact that I and my neighbours and friends did everything we possibly could to stop it.

It's a greedy, selfish world we live in.

Green_not_greed
01-May-10, 17:27
Maybe but Caithness is very rich in wind. Could mean a lot of jobs.....

And what about Kent? After all, its much closer to where the electricity is actually needed.

John Little
01-May-10, 17:29
I have no figures for you - there's quite a few down here on the marsh not too far away, and a lot in East Kent - I've never counted them.

We don't seem to get quite as much air as you though.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://uk-shore.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/romney-marsh-wind-farm1-470x313.jpg&imgrefurl=http://uk-shore.com/blog/2008/06/romney-marsh-wind-farm&h=313&w=470&sz=38&tbnid=R8O84IfiEstvCM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dromney%2Bmarsh%2Bwindfarm&hl=en&usg=__O-Ld0usJWz4H5wLD2uNmQJxl5rA=&ei=4lbcS_q-H43-0gT__sDJBw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&ved=0CC0Q9QEwAw


There ye go.

"After all, its much closer to where the electricity is actually needed. "

You don't use it up there??? :)

olivia
01-May-10, 17:32
Yes I was referring to the map posted recently of the proposed windfarms in Caithness.

We have seen how little success can be had from objecting or attending planning meetings.

The area I live in between Wick and Thurso, you won't be able to look in any direction without a (mostly large) windfarm in view.

Yep, democracy is dead in Scotland. The feeling is that whatever is said the government will wriggle its way round to justify an approval.

However, I for one will still fight on as hard as I possibly can, for as long as I possibly can, in the hope that one day someone will listen.

Also, for my own peace of mind, so that in time to come when everything is trashed and everyone throws up their hands in horror and says 'how was this allowed to happen' I can at least content myself with the fact that I and my neighbours and friends did everything we possibly could to stop it.

onecalledk
01-May-10, 20:22
dont be fooled with the "it will bring jobs" banner that is being bandied around with the proposed wind farms. Wind farms are VERY dangerous for health. In Canada they are faced with a huge upturn of symptoms in people who live beside or near these huge turbines.

Lo level vibration plays havoc with the human body. People who live in close proximity to these turbines can suffer from a variety of dibilitating symptoms. Unfortunately a lot of people who have suffered these symptoms and complained about them have their houses bought from them by the companies who built the turbines with a GAGGING CLAUSE in them preventing them from speaking out about their suffering.

The strobe effect of the turning of the blades called the flicker effect also plays havoc with the human body. You will note that those who are building these massive turbines are building them A LONG WAY AWAY From where they live !

Just as I would have no wish to live below or near an electricty pylon (again for health reasons) I have no wish to live in close proximity to a wind turbine. The fear is that people will get carried away with the "green" banner these turbines seem to be tagged with and the health implications surface too late. When you are faced with limiting conditions, suffer migraines, fatigue, seizures, dizziness, confusion CONSTANTLY in your own home then who will listen ???

THe green banner is also a bit of a myth. Whilst wind energy may be "green" building turbines is not. The fuel involved to transport these massive turbines, the digging of the ground, pouring of cement etc etc is in no way green .The carbon footprint is immense.

The only people who will profit from these farms are the landowners who are being paid a small fortune by the companies making these turbines.

I used to look at the wind turbines and think oh much better than nuclear power until I started researching the "downside" of these huge windmills.

Although I dont neccessarily agree with nuclear power at least it states what it does on the tin.

Please dont be fooled by "windmills". A few years from now when the health service is groaning under the weight of people with serious health problems what will happen then ??????

K

olivia
01-May-10, 20:48
dont be fooled with the "it will bring jobs" banner that is being bandied around with the proposed wind farms. Wind farms are VERY dangerous for health. In Canada they are faced with a huge upturn of symptoms in people who live beside or near these huge turbines.

Lo level vibration plays havoc with the human body. People who live in close proximity to these turbines can suffer from a variety of dibilitating symptoms. Unfortunately a lot of people who have suffered these symptoms and complained about them have their houses bought from them by the companies who built the turbines with a GAGGING CLAUSE in them preventing them from speaking out about their suffering.

The strobe effect of the turning of the blades called the flicker effect also plays havoc with the human body. You will note that those who are building these massive turbines are building them A LONG WAY AWAY From where they live !

Just as I would have no wish to live below or near an electricty pylon (again for health reasons) I have no wish to live in close proximity to a wind turbine. The fear is that people will get carried away with the "green" banner these turbines seem to be tagged with and the health implications surface too late. When you are faced with limiting conditions, suffer migraines, fatigue, seizures, dizziness, confusion CONSTANTLY in your own home then who will listen ???

THe green banner is also a bit of a myth. Whilst wind energy may be "green" building turbines is not. The fuel involved to transport these massive turbines, the digging of the ground, pouring of cement etc etc is in no way green .The carbon footprint is immense.

The only people who will profit from these farms are the landowners who are being paid a small fortune by the companies making these turbines.

I used to look at the wind turbines and think oh much better than nuclear power until I started researching the "downside" of these huge windmills.

Although I dont neccessarily agree with nuclear power at least it states what it does on the tin.

Please dont be fooled by "windmills". A few years from now when the health service is groaning under the weight of people with serious health problems what will happen then ??????

K

Well said!!!!! At last someone who has researched (as I have) the downside of living in close proximity to wind turbines.

The difficulty is trying to get the authorities to take this seriously when they are bombarded with the greenwash and spin of the developers.

The noise criteria that they have to adhere to is woefully out of date, having been designed for turbines a fraction of the size of those being built now. This makes a mockery of the claim that 'there won't be any noise problems' from their turbines.

Just imagine twenty five years of health problems, due to planning authorities and governments not listening to the ever growing chorus of voices across the globe that say that there should be a setback distance to avoid these problems.

The solution is simple - do not allow wind farms to close to peoples homes.

georgen
01-May-10, 21:48
Could you please enlighten us as to how many full time permanent jobs would be created from say the thirty turbine wind farm proposed for Spittal Hill? Sure, there will be jobs during construction, the same with any big industrial project, but they will all go to the successful bidders for the work, possibly from outwith the area. Long term jobs are a myth that is bandied about along with all the other myths to sweeten the bitter pill that is a discredited technology.


4 or 5 jobs would be created for this project. Other local companies and businesses would benefit too.

Get your CV's in quick chaps. The money's great !!

olivia
01-May-10, 22:23
4 or 5 jobs would be created for this project.

Wow! That's really going to make a dent in the unemployment figures post Dounreay.

georgen
01-May-10, 23:01
Wow! That's really going to make a dent in the unemployment figures post Dounreay.


Nevermind. When we get a whole heap of windfarms in the county there'll be jobs for everybody...

Aaldtimer
02-May-10, 03:11
Aye, and there goes the "Big Skies County" that the tourists come to see!:(

Scout
02-May-10, 07:15
And what about Kent? After all, its much closer to where the electricity is actually needed.


Yes there are some in Kent at the Coast and some in London I will get pictures of the one in London my friend will send them. There are some in Cornwall, Wales, Devon. Yorkshire, Lake District, Do you want me to name more in the south :)

calderj
02-May-10, 08:32
Will your partner get work from the thousands of off-shore wind turbines that are proposed or does he just do on-shore? Just curious how the system works.

he is currently working on offshore turbines and moves about from site to site constructing them around the uk. if he wanted to be based in the one place then he would have to take a job mantaning them. but he preferes constructing them.

ywindythesecond
02-May-10, 08:47
Yes there are some in Kent at the Coast and some in London I will get pictures of the one in London my friend will send them. There are some in Cornwall, Wales, Devon. Yorkshire, Lake District, Do you want me to name more in the south :)

No need to trouble your friend, you can get this on the BWEA website
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9682/image1jb.jpg

John Little
02-May-10, 09:24
The Romney Marsh ones do not appear to be on that....

ah - they are on the operational map.

http://www.bwea.com/ukwed/map-operational.html

olivia
02-May-10, 15:34
That's a very interesting map. There are obvious 'hotspots' and yet there are huge swathes of Britain that have nothing yet, particularly the far south. I wonder why that is?

John Little
02-May-10, 15:47
Microclimate I should think. We just don't get the same amount of constant air current as Caithness. It's impeded by ridges, hills, and large swathes of woodland. Also we are right next to the continent so on the border twixt maritime and continental climates.

The coastal areas where it is flat do get more wind so we are getting windfarms too. But flat uplands like the Flow country have more 'fetch' for wind than down here.

I can see that you do not like windfarms- I wonder if there is a design which is better at tapping the potential and being less intrusive? It is an undoubted natural resource- are there better technologies for using the energy in wind?

ywindythesecond
02-May-10, 18:54
Microclimate I should think. We just don't get the same amount of constant air current as Caithness. It's impeded by ridges, hills, and large swathes of woodland. Also we are right next to the continent so on the border twixt maritime and continental climates.

The coastal areas where it is flat do get more wind so we are getting windfarms too. But flat uplands like the Flow country have more 'fetch' for wind than down here.

I can see that you do not like windfarms- I wonder if there is a design which is better at tapping the potential and being less intrusive? It is an undoubted natural resource- are there better technologies for using the energy in wind?

John
It is flat calm in Caithness at the moment, and the 1588MW of windpower National Grid meters across Scotland was producing 49MW or 3.09% of metered capacity at 18.35 BST,thereby proving the title of this thread.
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5545/1735gmt.jpg
Caithness is no longer as windy as it was ten years ago. Developers who jumped on the bandwagon should be a bit concerned that perhaps their investment is not quite as good as they thought.

John Little
02-May-10, 19:41
"It is flat calm in Caithness at the moment,"

I do not doubt it.

Nor can I comment on your statement that you get less wind. All I know is that when I lived there as a kid, and whenever I visit, it seems to be windy.

That's all.

Green_not_greed
02-May-10, 20:16
"After all, its much closer to where the electricity is actually needed. "

You don't use it up there??? :)

I think you've missed the point. We have electricity and hot water, plus TV believe it or not. Hydro electricity also covers all the Highlands needs in terms of electricity. We have no need to import any - ever! So why when the home counties, the Midlands and London need "renewable" electricity should the Highlands be covered in windfarms to accomodate them? We don't need them, so why should we do it for those in the south?

Gronnuck
02-May-10, 20:37
I think you've missed the point. We have electricity and hot water, plus TV believe it or not. Hydro electricity also covers all the Highlands needs in terms of electricity. We have no need to import any - ever! So why when the home counties, the Midlands and London need "renewable" electricity should the Highlands be covered in windfarms to accomodate them? We don't need them, so why should we do it for those in the south?

Good God Sir! :eek: The home counties, the Midlands and London are where lots of people live doncha know! By Gad Sir we couldn't possibly accommodate dozens of these very large twirly-jiggy things in our green and pleasant land!
Oh no Sir best put them in the Highlands where no-one lives and no-one will notice! :roll:
It'll give them something to look at while they're hunting their haggis . . . . . hhrrummph.

John Little
02-May-10, 20:50
"So why when the home counties, the Midlands and London need "renewable" electricity should the Highlands be covered in windfarms to accomodate them? We don't need them,"

I don't know. You could ask your MP or the Scottish Parliament.

I don't know that we do need it - there's quite a lot of power stations down here - a huge nuclear one just down the road, and cables bringing power from France, Our electricity comes for EDF - Electricite de France.

I imagine Scottish power wants to generate it to sell>
Like 'It's Scotland's wind'

That could be the reason- money.

"...so why should we do it for those in the south? '

Do you mean Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dunfermline etc or south of the border?

Well I suspect money again.


I have no answers for you. I am probing here, and learning.


Gronnuck - yer hobnails are blunt!

olivia
02-May-10, 23:09
I can see that you do not like windfarms

You're right, I don't like windfarms - but I'd like to explain that a little more.

At the risk of being branded a 'nimby' (although I would prefer 'niaby' - 'not in anyone's back yard') I have come to this conclusion based purely on what I have learnt over the past five years since I found out that I could potentially have a huge windfarm as my neighbour.

My reasons are -

They are an inefficient, expensive technology that hasn't a hope in hell of plugging the looming energy gap.

I think it is morally obscene to subsidise these developments creating wealth for a few whilst pushing more into fuel poverty.

Building them too close to homes has created health problems for many across the globe which is only now being recognised - although the wind industry would never admit it.

Wildlife, peatlands, landscapes are all detrimentally affected by them.

Residents are being forced to accept them 'for the greater good'. Whose greater good? To enable the likes of Alex Salmond to brag about Scotland becoming 'the power house of Europe'. It seems to me its not about helping to stop climate change any more, its about exporting power to make lots of money.

I'm disgusted by the whole sorry affair.

John Little
03-May-10, 09:49
Yes I can see that Mr Salmond would wish to show that Scotland could become a powerhouse, exporting electricity. Pragmatically, to any politician, not just him, I suspect that it is just a natural resource to be exploited, and to the mass of people it would bolster his green credentials.

However if what you say is so then I can see why you would not wish them in your back yard.

What about offshore ones such as in the Thames estuary or Morcambe Bay? (apart from spoiling the sea view)

badger
03-May-10, 14:00
What about offshore ones such as in the Thames estuary or Morcambe Bay? (apart from spoiling the sea view)

Apart from the cost of offshore - even more than onshore both for construction and maintenance - we have no real idea of the damage they will do to marine life, and we won't know until it is too late. What we do know right now is that they haven't got the concrete bases right so a lot of them are shifting around. Wonder how long it will be before they start falling over :eek: .

In fact we don't really know about the long term effects of onshore. We know quite a lot, as others have said, about ill effects on people but they also kill thousands of flying animals - birds, bats, insects - all very necessary to the ecology. Birds get chopped up, bats have their lungs exploded. Many are protected species which would result in prosecution if they were killed any other way.

rich
03-May-10, 15:29
Estimate how much the whole program would cost.
Then give the money to the people of Caithness.
That should keep everybody happy.
NB The sheer genius of this is that not a single wind machine would be constructed.
There is another brilliant idea. Hold the wind in trust for our chilren and grandchildren.
That would create exactly one job, somebody at Scrabster perhaps standing attired in proper wind inspector uniform (flashy green like the road constructors wear). Behold, our wind inspector places one index finger in her mouth. After a few minutes, finger is withdrawn then held up (above the head ideally) for 30 seconds. Withdraw finger.
Note the epidermal temperature quotient and plot it on a graph. Or better still a grid. (Melvin's bookstore in Inverness is bursting with these things in their stationary department. I dont believe there are any bookshops in Caithness these days...)
This is an infallible way of measuring velocity and direction of wind (I am reliably informed that this is how anglers measure the wind.)
Finally, may I offer my services as the wind inspector. If there was a wee cottage to go with the job,, a grace and favor place perhaps, then that would be nice. And a color televsion set to monitor the wild and wacky world of wind....

golach
03-May-10, 15:37
In fact we don't really know about the long term effects of onshore. We know quite a lot, as others have said, about ill effects on people but they also kill thousands of flying animals - birds, bats, insects - all very necessary to the ecology. Birds get chopped up, bats have their lungs exploded. Many are protected species which would result in prosecution if they were killed any other way.

If we used this way of thinking to its full extent, would you advocate the banning of motor vehicles?........... Millions of insects die on windscreens around the world each day, without any great impact on the environment.

rich
03-May-10, 15:51
Golach, you are completely missing the point re insects and car windscreens. To preseve the lives of small, vulnerable bugs you simply remove all the windows from your car.
Of course when motoring you would have to wrap up in swathes of tweed and some sort of a hat with earflaps might be necessary....but perhaps there is some scope for job creation - red flags and someone to walk briskly in front of the car?

onecalledk
03-May-10, 18:27
If we used this way of thinking to its full extent, would you advocate the banning of motor vehicles?........... Millions of insects die on windscreens around the world each day, without any great impact on the environment.

When the bees no longer come anywhere near these wind farms what will happen to the local area. It has already been proven that bees are necessary to the continuation of things like crops, flowers, plants etc and that if bees disappeared tomorrow the impact would be enormous on the whole of the natural world. Bats explode due to the lo level vibration dished out by these huge turbines.

Insects killed by cars are those who happen to be in the wrong place and are hit, there is no comparison. Wind turbines are a danger to the environment, a danger to the human body and serve no purpose in the big picture of renewable energy.

There are people who have researched energy that would be clean and virtually be able to made free but these people are silenced by the big multi nationals. After all the bottom line is not renewable energy its MONEY.........

K

badger
03-May-10, 18:28
If we used this way of thinking to its full extent, would you advocate the banning of motor vehicles?........... Millions of insects die on windscreens around the world each day, without any great impact on the environment.

The road kill of birds and small animals is also pretty bad but is that any reason to add to it for so little result? Vegans think they're not killing anything but plenty of wildlife dies to produce crops. You can't avoid killing things altogether (if you lay in bed all day you'd probably kill a fair number of teeny beasties).

Point I was making is that protected species seem to lose their protection where windfarms are concerned. Even humans don't count for much in the great race for money.

Neil Howie
03-May-10, 21:55
The petrochemical industry had a kind of positive knock on effect for whales...




The first principal use of whale oil was as an illuminant in lamps and as candle wax. Other uses came in time. In the 1700's it was noted that the burning oil from sperm whales glowed brightly and clearly and did not have a disagreeable odor like the oil from right whales did (Bonner, 1989). The sperm whale was the main whale being sought for its oil when the petroleum industry opened in 1859. The whale fishery, however, was in a declining state and had been so a decade or more before Drake struck petroleum in his drilled well and before general refining of crude oil commenced in Oil Creek Valley and elsewhere.

onecalledk
05-May-10, 13:12
sort of come full circle then as now the wildlife is once again fighting for its life thanks to the crude oil spilling out into the sea just now ....

K

crayola
06-May-10, 13:21
That's a very interesting map. There are obvious 'hotspots' and yet there are huge swathes of Britain that have nothing yet, particularly the far south. I wonder why that is?
That's obvious. It's less windy down there, there are no hills to a first approximation and it's more built up so there's less space for windmills.

Where's Rheg when you need him?

crayola
06-May-10, 13:23
There are people who have researched energy that would be clean and virtually be able to made free but these people are silenced by the big multi nationals. After all the bottom line is not renewable energy its MONEY.........
When I was young I remember hearing that someone had claimed that electricity from the likes of Dounreay would be 'too cheap to meter' although no-one seemed to know who had said it. Was he right? :lol:

Who are the big multi-nationals of which you speak and what is this year's 'energy that would be clean and virtually be able to made free'?

I know a druid who claims energy can be extracted from the universal cosmic consciousness field and other forms of alien technology. Is your source like that?

onecalledk
06-May-10, 13:27
http://www.theorionproject.org/en/index.html

interesting read .....

K

crayola
06-May-10, 13:47
http://www.theorionproject.org/en/index.html

interesting read .....

K
That's it exactly! Steven Greer is my druid friend's guru.

I almost went on one of his courses for fun and I started a thread about it 4 years ago. It's here (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=10007).

I'm not a believer but my druid friend is fanatical about it.

ducati
06-May-10, 20:49
http://www.theorionproject.org/en/index.html

interesting read .....

K

Presumably Barach's response was get this nutter the hell away from me!

crayola
09-May-10, 01:46
Presumably Barach's response was get this nutter the hell away from me!Oh I don't know about him being a nutter, his Global First Contact Experiment (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/exopolitica/esp_exopolitics_I_4.htm) sounds fantastic.....


To assist the visualization it is recommended that participants hear a 21 minute online recording of whale songs at least once before the experiment
[listen]. Whales are widely regarded as a highly intelligent telepathic species that communicates with extraterrestrial races, and can also stimulate human telepathic abilities.

Details of the next Global Experiment are as follows:
Visualization:
Imagine yourself being asked by benevolent extraterrestrials the question: "Do You Wish That We Show Up?" Say 'yes'! Then instantly imagine luminous extraterrestrial ships appearing high over every city of the planet for a period lasting two/three days. The ships perform light displays that indicate universal greetings of peace, joy and fraternity.

Ships play natural sounds such as whale songs indicating universal acknowledgement for cetaceans as an intelligent life form that has long communicated with extraterrestrial races. The visualization should be done in a way that releases positive emotions such as joy, love and celebration. The visualization can be modified in ways that best inspire individuals to celebrate First Contact as a new era for humanity.

The visualization will be performed at 9 pm in every time zone thereby creating an energetic wave of consciousness that sweeps around the planet. The length of the visualization should be between 5-10 minutes.
Would you not like to experience an energetic wave of consciousness as it sweeps around the planet?

ducati
09-May-10, 07:50
Oh I don't know about him being a nutter, his Global First Contact Experiment (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/exopolitica/esp_exopolitics_I_4.htm) sounds fantastic.....

Would you not like to experience an energetic wave of consciousness as it sweeps around the planet?

Yes I would! In fact I insist on having one, where do I sign up? :eek:

crayola
09-May-10, 15:03
Yes I would! In fact I insist on having one, where do I sign up? :eek:You could start here. (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/prepare4contact/)

I watched some of Steven Greer's video interviews and I can't work out whether he believes everything he says or he's just another con man trying to part you from your money. The similarity with some of the threads on here is interesting.

ducati
09-May-10, 15:32
We in the UK need to respond to the widening Alien welcome gap.

It is not acceptable to leave something as important Earth-ET relations to a small Asian enclave of Looneys. We need a large western coalition of looneys to do this properly.

David Cameron needs to get on this right away and treat it with the highest priority. :eek:

crayola
09-May-10, 15:36
I think engaging with this sort of speculative alien inspired technology is more up Alex Salmond's street. Cameron could outsource responsibility to Holyrood and Salmond could appoint Greer as his political advisor.

ducati
10-May-10, 12:03
and use Unicorn poo to fertilise his roses! Sorry Unicorn :D