PDA

View Full Version : Legislation to ban full-face veil in France



rambo1978
22-Apr-10, 04:37
Just wondering what peoples opinions are on this?

ducati
22-Apr-10, 06:08
The frogs are racist, Sorry RETF :D

The Drunken Duck
22-Apr-10, 07:19
Just wondering what peoples opinions are on this?

Dont care either way, if women want to want to walk around looking like the Emperor's personal guards out of Star Wars its nought to do with me.

riggerboy
22-Apr-10, 08:44
(my controlled view)

considering it has nothing to do with the muslim religion nowhere does it state the wearing of one in the kuran , i think if they want to wear it fine, but if asked to remove it in a shop or somewhere then i think it should be removed,along the same lines as a crash helmet, you cant walk into a bank with a crash helmet on why should you be able to walk in with a burka on, face reconition is important, as i said if they want to walk about with the thing on let them,

(my wee rant)

but i will tell you this if i owned a shop they widna be allowed in with it on, cause i said so, thats why, if they take it off they can have all the service they want, its not religious so get it off in ma shop or get oot, same goes for ye bikers dinna be coming in here askin fur chewing gum way yer helmet on, i dinna care if its hard to tie up get it off in ma shop, NEXT

ducati
22-Apr-10, 08:47
(my controlled view)

considering it has nothing to do with the muslim religion nowhere does it state the wearing of one in the kuran , i think if they want to wear it fine, but if asked to remove it in a shop or somewhere then i think it should be removed,along the same lines as a crash helmet, you cant walk into a bank with a crash helmet on why should you be able to walk in with a burka on, face reconition is important, as i said if they want to walk about with the thing on let them,

(my wee rant)

but i will tell you this if i owned a shop they widna be allowed in with it on, cause i said so, thats why, if they take it off they can have all the service they want, its not religious so get it off in ma shop or get oot, same goes for ye bikers dinna be coming in here askin fur chewing gum way yer helmet on, i dinna care if its hard to tie up get it off in ma shop, NEXT

You don't own a motorcycle shop do you? :eek:

riggerboy
22-Apr-10, 09:02
You don't own a motorcycle shop do you? :eek:

i`ve owned many bikes in my day and still do yes but not a shop lol

ducati
22-Apr-10, 09:03
i`ve owned many in my day and still do yes why

Just wondered if you had to fling people oot when they tried on a helmet? :eek:

fred
22-Apr-10, 09:17
Just wondering what peoples opinions are on this?

I think it will make a lot of French bee keepers rather angry.

riggerboy
22-Apr-10, 09:19
Just wondered if you had to fling people oot when they tried on a helmet? :eek:

hahaha get oot ma shop with at helmet on yer barred

porshiepoo
22-Apr-10, 09:30
Completely agree with the ban and can only hope that one day this country sees sense and follows suit.

The Angel Of Death
22-Apr-10, 10:08
Completely agree with the ban and can only hope that one day this country sees sense and follows suit.

Exactly wasnt there something about some bloke who escaped the uk dressed as a woman with a full on birka just showing his eyes walked right through pasport control as well

Doreen
22-Apr-10, 10:13
Live and let live.
I personally find them VERY intimidating and as most of human communication is subconciously taken in from 'reading' the face, it makes this difficult, even sometimes what sex they are. Islamic states are run almost with iron fists and these rules apply to everyone there, not just those of that religion. We arent an Islamic state, yet, and as such the rules and laws of this nation should apply. Not even taking into account the current fear and unfortunate mistrust of most muslims due to the radical terrorists, I would like to think that they would encourage and promote their cause by realising the fear and animosity that this particular aspect of their CHOSEN religion creates in western culture, and forgo the wearing of it as a step along the path of acceptance.

bekisman
22-Apr-10, 10:26
Just wondering what peoples opinions are on this?

I thought this was in Belgium ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8636605.stm

Cattach
22-Apr-10, 10:38
Just wondering what peoples opinions are on this?

TV report said it was Belgium and not France.

Cattach
22-Apr-10, 10:40
The frogs are racist, Sorry RETF :D

Your comment sounds pretty racist to me. Anyway, TV report said it was Belgium and not France banning dress that hid identity - not just full face veil..

fred
22-Apr-10, 10:40
Live and let live.
I personally find them VERY intimidating and as most of human communication is subconciously taken in from 'reading' the face, it makes this difficult, even sometimes what sex they are. Islamic states are run almost with iron fists and these rules apply to everyone there, not just those of that religion. We arent an Islamic state, yet, and as such the rules and laws of this nation should apply. Not even taking into account the current fear and unfortunate mistrust of most muslims due to the radical terrorists, I would like to think that they would encourage and promote their cause by realising the fear and animosity that this particular aspect of their CHOSEN religion creates in western culture, and forgo the wearing of it as a step along the path of acceptance.

Actually there are very few Islamic states where the full face burqa is required by law, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are I think the only ones. In the vast majority of Muslim states women have the freedom to choose if they want to wear it or not.

It is European countries who are removing the freedom to choose from women by making it illegal to wear a full face burqa. Isn't using the law to dictate to people what they can or can't wear going too far?

Crackeday
22-Apr-10, 10:50
looks like the french have the right idea, completely agree with them, this is an outdated barabaric practice that is demeaning to women, good on them!:lol:

changilass
22-Apr-10, 10:56
Totally agree with the French/Belgium (whoever it is).

If I go to a different country, I follow their rules, or expect to get into trouble.

If I felt I couldn't follow their rules for some reason I would stay away.

A bit of research and consideration afore travelling anywhere is all that is needed by all.

Anfield
22-Apr-10, 10:58
After seeing some of the grumpy & miserable faces in Caithness (Both men and women) I would be in favour of introducing full face Burkas here

ducati
22-Apr-10, 11:10
Actually there are very few Islamic states where the full face burqa is required by law, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are I think the only ones. In the vast majority of Muslim states women have the freedom to choose if they want to wear it or not.

It is European countries who are removing the freedom to choose from women by making it illegal to wear a full face burqa. Isn't using the law to dictate to people what they can or can't wear going too far?

Completely agree, thin end of the wedge, how would we feel if Tubs couldn't wear her bag? [disgust]

Tubthumper
22-Apr-10, 11:11
... how would we feel if Tubs couldn't wear her bag? [disgust]

Disturbed!

The Drunken Duck
22-Apr-10, 11:19
After seeing some of the grumpy & miserable faces in Caithness (Both men and women) I would be in favour of introducing full face Burkas here

Or you could just wear the Scouse equivalent of the Burkha and give us all a laugh .. :D

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/9168/scousersw.jpg

wifie
22-Apr-10, 11:21
After seeing some of the grumpy & miserable faces in Caithness (Both men and women) I would be in favour of introducing full face Burkas here


Oh dear, Anfield, did that post just make a burk-aoutta you? ;)

fred
22-Apr-10, 11:30
looks like the french have the right idea, completely agree with them, this is an outdated barabaric practice that is demeaning to women, good on them!:lol:

Actually one of the differences between the Christian and Muslim faiths is their attitude to women. Christians teach that women are inferior, weak, they are to be blamed for the downfall of man while the Muslim faith says that women are to be honoured.

If women want to wear a burqa how is it demeaning to let them? Surely it is passing a law dictating to women what they can or can't wear that is demeaning.

Will this law also apply to Christian nuns? To brides at a wedding or to widows at a funeral? Do you see their wearing of a veil as demeaning?

Anfield
22-Apr-10, 11:31
Or you could just wear the Scouse equivalent of the Burkha and give us all a laugh .. :D



DD you have "papped" me, front row first from left.
This photo was obviously taken when Liverpool were winning things i.e. a long time ago

The Drunken Duck
22-Apr-10, 11:38
DD you have "papped" me, front row first from left.
This photo was obviously taken when Liverpool were winning things i.e. a long time ago

Have to say .. Nice 'tache mate !! .. ;)

Sure the Reds will be back on top soon.

Tubthumper
22-Apr-10, 11:42
Actually one of the differences between the Christian and Muslim faiths is their attitude to women. Christians teach that women are inferior, weak, they are to be blamed for the downfall of man while the Muslim faith says that women are to be honoured.

In the real world both sides seem to have swapped positions though.

changilass
22-Apr-10, 11:45
Will this law also apply to Christian nuns? To brides at a wedding or to widows at a funeral? Do you see their wearing of a veil as demeaning?


I think you would find that alll of the above would be willing to take their veils off when going shopping, or going through customs, not that they are likely to be doing either.

There is also a big difference between a netting veil and one that completely covers everything but the eyes.

fred
22-Apr-10, 12:10
I think you would find that alll of the above would be willing to take their veils off when going shopping, or going through customs, not that they are likely to be doing either.

There is also a big difference between a netting veil and one that completely covers everything but the eyes.

Going through customs a Muslim woman would only object to showing her face when there were men present. Just as someone going through customs would object to a full body search by a member of the opposite sex. Surely it is not beyond the capabilities of customs to provide facilities for Muslim women, they are a fair proportion of the world's population after all.

As for going shopping surely that is a matter of personal choice for a woman what she wears.

Gronnuck
22-Apr-10, 12:13
IMHO in Britian and in many other western countries there are a siginificant number of muslim women who wear the bukha to make a political statement.
What they're saying varies from, 'I choose to cover myself to practice modesty 'cos that's what we do,' to, 'I'll wear it 'cos I'm different and I don't want to be part of your society and I don't give a flying fig what you think!'.
I really don't care what any muslim women chooses to wear but I won't become involved with anyone who covers their face, including wearing a full face helmet, and tries to talk to me because IMHO they are being rude and inconsiderate.

changilass
22-Apr-10, 12:20
Why should the airports have to pay extra staff just because someone decides to hide their face.

Most folks wouldn't try to board a plane in a crash helmet.

There is no religious requirement to completely cover the face, it is a matter of choice.

Personal choice is also on the side of the shopkeepers, they do not have to serve folks who have their faces covered.

Crackeday
22-Apr-10, 13:15
Actually one of the differences between the Christian and Muslim faiths is their attitude to women. Christians teach that women are inferior, weak, they are to be blamed for the downfall of man while the Muslim faith says that women are to be honoured.

If women want to wear a burqa how is it demeaning to let them? Surely it is passing a law dictating to women what they can or can't wear that is demeaning.

Will this law also apply to Christian nuns? To brides at a wedding or to widows at a funeral? Do you see their wearing of a veil as demeaning?
They are honoured so much in the muslim faith that they have to walk behind their husbands, and give the husband his "jollys" whenever he decides!! VERY honourbale indeed:(

northener
22-Apr-10, 13:16
Going through customs a Muslim woman would only object to showing her face when there were men present. Just as someone going through customs would object to a full body search by a member of the opposite sex. Surely it is not beyond the capabilities of customs to provide facilities for Muslim women, they are a fair proportion of the world's population after all.

As for going shopping surely that is a matter of personal choice for a woman what she wears.

Hit the nail on the head, Fred.

I'd be more concerned about some of our home-grown scrotes who creep about with their heads lowered and a hood covering their face than some woman out on a shopping exped.

Western culture makes us suspicious of anyone covering their face, in many Muslim countries covering your face is a very normal thing to do. A bit of tolerance would go a long way instead of this constant stream of media attention on the Islamic faith.

northener
22-Apr-10, 13:18
I wonder how many people commenting on this thread have ever had any close contact with a fair number of Muslims - or visited a Muslim state and actually mixed with the locals on a regular basis?

northener
22-Apr-10, 13:19
They are honoured so much in the muslim faith that they have to walk behind their husbands, and give the husband his "jollys" whenever he decides!! VERY honourbale indeed:(

Really? How do you know this?

ducati
22-Apr-10, 13:23
Your comment sounds pretty racist to me. Anyway, TV report said it was Belgium and not France banning dress that hid identity - not just full face veil..

Well, yes, towards the frogs obviously. :lol:

northener
22-Apr-10, 13:25
Well, yes, towards the frogs obviously. :lol:

It's actually legal in th UK to ridicule and insult the Frogs.




Well, it should be, anyway.:Razz

changilass
22-Apr-10, 13:26
When these women are in their muslim states then they can do as their laws state.

As I have already stated, if I visit their country, then I will do as local custom states, they should do the same when visiting or living in other countries.

All other countries should not have to change for one section.

northener
22-Apr-10, 13:26
After seeing some of the grumpy & miserable faces in Caithness (Both men and women) I would be in favour of introducing full face Burkas here


Gets my vote!:Razz

ducati
22-Apr-10, 13:28
It's actually legal in th UK to ridicule and insult the Frogs.




Well, it should be, anyway.:Razz

I thought it was compulsory :eek:

northener
22-Apr-10, 13:34
When these women are in their muslim states then they can do as their laws state.

As I have already stated, if I visit their country, then I will do as local custom states, they should do the same when visiting or living in other countries.

All other countries should not have to change for one section.

But how does a woman walking down the street, in the UK, wearing a Burka affect anyone else? Providing they identify themselves when required by Government and Law enforcement agents then don't see what business it is of anyones' how they dress.

If a shop decides to refuse to serve someone because they cannot recognise them - then they should be able to refuse service - same as they already do with bikers. That's not a religious discrimination issue - that's a personal choice issue related to security. And that's not the same as a 'blanket';) ban.

I get the distinct impression that there are more than a few people in the Uk who see every single follower of the Islamic faith as 'terrorist'.
I'd also like to see some figures that prove that burka-clad Muslim women are rampaging across our land in a bloodthirsty frenzy of crime......

fred
22-Apr-10, 13:35
Why should the airports have to pay extra staff just because someone decides to hide their face.

Most folks wouldn't try to board a plane in a crash helmet.

There is no religious requirement to completely cover the face, it is a matter of choice.

Personal choice is also on the side of the shopkeepers, they do not have to serve folks who have their faces covered.

The airports already have male and female staff and I'm sure it wouldn't cost much to have an area males couldn't see to check a Muslim woman's face.

Crash helmets are not relevant to this discussion.

It should be a matter of choice, just as a Western woman can choose not to show her legs if she wishes.

Yes, shop keepers are not obliged to serve anyone, if they decide they do not wish to serve anyone who covers their face be it a Muslim woman with a veil or a young Western person with a hood that should be their right.

You do realise this law could cause an earthquake don't you?

rich
22-Apr-10, 14:41
They are sure to end up as high fashion on the catwalks of Paris.
Whatever the government says!

changilass
22-Apr-10, 14:50
I agree that folks should be able to wear what they want, what I disagree with is the idea that they should be able to do so in all situations.

Folks do not have a right to dress how they choose in this country, this was proved by the naked rambler going to court.

There should not be extra costs to airports, it is up to the passengers to comply with rules, not the airports to pander to folks whims (it is not a religious requirement, and even if it was it is up to the individual to comply with each regions rulings, rather than each region having to make consessions to each individual)




Do I get an extra weeks free holiday for an earthquake?

Crackeday
22-Apr-10, 14:59
Really? How do you know this?
from contact with muslims.Who were pretty upfront about the whole thing, thats why you never see women at a muslim funeral, they have to stay behind and make the food, and then be seperated from the men by a screen!!!! very 21st century :roll:

katarina
22-Apr-10, 15:14
Why is it that when anyone makes a racist remark against certain minorities everyone jumps down their throats, but no one says anything when the french are called 'frogs'

fred
22-Apr-10, 15:28
Why is it that when anyone makes a racist remark against certain minorities everyone jumps down their throats, but no one says anything when the french are called 'frogs'

I don't think that's considered a racial slur is it? Isn't it a reference to what they eat like "Pom" or "Limey" or "Spud" is a reference to what British people eat. Thought it was just like calling an American a "Yank" or a Scottish person a "Jock" or a Welsh person "Taffy".

scorrie
22-Apr-10, 15:47
I don't think that's considered a racial slur is it? Isn't it a reference to what they eat like "Pom" or "Limey" or "Spud" is a reference to what British people eat. Thought it was just like calling an American a "Yank" or a Scottish person a "Jock" or a Welsh person "Taffy".

Is "Rag Head" acceptable then, as it is just a wee jape about those who like wearing tea towels?

With all these "Friendly" nicknames, there seems to be a great difference in the perceived acceptability, depending on which side of the delivery you are on and who is involved.

ducati
22-Apr-10, 16:05
Why is it that when anyone makes a racist remark against certain minorities everyone jumps down their throats, but no one says anything when the french are called 'frogs'

You just did :Razz

Turquoise
22-Apr-10, 16:08
I can't be bothered writing it again, so...


http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=97581

Bazeye
22-Apr-10, 16:45
Tunisia is 98% muslim and they are not allowed to wear it in public places there. The fact that they do here just confirms that they are deliberately doing it as a sign of defiance that says we do not want to integrate with the host nation. If thats the case ,go and wear it in a place were its regarded as "normal". if that sounds racist then so be it, I dont care.
When in Rome etc......

fred
22-Apr-10, 16:46
Is "Rag Head" acceptable then, as it is just a wee jape about those who like wearing tea towels?

No that is considered racist due to the context in which it is normally used. Just as "Paki" is racist but "Brit" isn't.



With all these "Friendly" nicknames, there seems to be a great difference in the perceived acceptability, depending on which side of the delivery you are on and who is involved.

If something is commonly used in an offensive or derogatory manner then it is considered offensive, if it isn't then it isn't.

fred
22-Apr-10, 17:06
I agree that folks should be able to wear what they want, what I disagree with is the idea that they should be able to do so in all situations.

Folks do not have a right to dress how they choose in this country, this was proved by the naked rambler going to court.

There should not be extra costs to airports, it is up to the passengers to comply with rules, not the airports to pander to folks whims (it is not a religious requirement, and even if it was it is up to the individual to comply with each regions rulings, rather than each region having to make consessions to each individual)


But the French wish to make the burqa illegal in all public places not just at customs.

The naked rambler was fined for being naked not for wearing clothes classed as illegal. The equivalent would be if they passed a law saying all women had to wear mini skirts and low cut blouses.

The Drunken Duck
22-Apr-10, 17:19
But the French wish to make the burqa illegal in all public places not just at customs.

The naked rambler was fined for being naked not for wearing clothes classed as illegal. The equivalent would be if they passed a law saying all women had to wear mini skirts and low cut blouses.

Now I am all for that last bit .. :D

bekisman
22-Apr-10, 17:42
It's actually legal in th UK to ridicule and insult the Frogs. Well, it should be, anyway.:Razz

Did not know that but in France, it is forbidden to call a pig Napoleon..

northener
22-Apr-10, 20:56
from contact with muslims.Who were pretty upfront about the whole thing, thats why you never see women at a muslim funeral, they have to stay behind and make the food, and then be seperated from the men by a screen!!!! very 21st century :roll:

Thanks for clearing that up.
It's just that I'm from West Yorkshire and have worked alongside a lot of Muslim lads whilst slaving in the weaving industry, and I don't recall any of them having their wifes trailing behind them when I've met them in Huddersfield town centre whilst shopping.

In fact some of them were even holding hands - can this be right?

ducati
22-Apr-10, 21:09
Tunisia is 98% muslim and they are not allowed to wear it in public places there. The fact that they do here just confirms that they are deliberately doing it as a sign of defiance that says we do not want to integrate with the host nation. If thats the case ,go and wear it in a place were its regarded as "normal". if that sounds racist then so be it, I dont care.
When in Rome etc......

That is a fair point Baz, but it certainly never applied to ex pat brits abroad, regardless of country or culture they are in.

In fact it is seen as very important for very many immigrent comunities to keep their cultural identity.

northener
22-Apr-10, 21:20
Why is it that when anyone makes a racist remark against certain minorities everyone jumps down their throats, but no one says anything when the french are called 'frogs'

They're just as quick to call us 'Rosbifs'...I don't view it as racism, just mickey-taking. Long may it continue.:Razz

fred
22-Apr-10, 21:21
Thanks for clearing that up.
It's just that I'm from West Yorkshire and have worked alongside a lot of Muslim lads whilst slaving in the weaving industry, and I don't recall any of them having their wifes trailing behind them when I've met them in Huddersfield town centre whilst shopping.

In fact some of them were even holding hands - can this be right?

An al bet thar missus was ome donkey stoning t'door step while them thar Muslims was out gallevanting.

northener
22-Apr-10, 21:25
An al bet thar missus was ome donkey stoning t'door step while them thar Muslims was out gallevanting.

'Appen yer right, Fred. Ah think she wo'. And ah used mek 'er muck aht me whippets an'all.

It led to nowt but trouble at t'mill, ah can tell thi.:Razz

ducati
22-Apr-10, 21:26
An al bet thar missus was ome donkey stoning t'door step while them thar Muslims was out gallevanting.

An ating mate paste an drippin pieces :cool: Actually that's a bit Wigan :roll:

changilass
22-Apr-10, 21:34
Dinnae be blurring the borders Ducati, its not nice and can be very messy.


YRA will be up in arms.

ducati
22-Apr-10, 21:38
Dinnae be blurring the borders Ducati, its not nice and can be very messy.


YRA will be up in arms.

Aye, I think I'll Trebuchet 'im over a pon o lobbys an will sa' now't mur abart it. E we're nobut lads :cool:

scorrie
22-Apr-10, 21:48
No that is considered racist due to the context in which it is normally used. Just as "Paki" is racist but "Brit" isn't.



If something is commonly used in an offensive or derogatory manner then it is considered offensive, if it isn't then it isn't.

I've never really been a big fan of the idea that we can give someone a list of nicknames and tell them which ones they are allowed to be offended by and which ones they "Just bloody well have to put up with, coz it ain't racist inn'it"

gleeber
22-Apr-10, 22:05
Christians are beginning to grumble about what they see as discrimination too. Not being allowed to wear religious jewelry and people in the caring industry not being able to offer prayer are just a couple of examples of modern restrictions on religious doctrine. Women priests, practising homosexuals living in manses, the Pope in danger of being arrested and ferries from lewis on a Sunday are other examples of Christianity under challenge and rightly so. Christians are struggling to adapt in a modern secular world but adapt they must.
Islam on the other hand slips in the back door and rather than adapting to the country, the country must adapt to Islam.
Has Islam offered to change to a more western friendly dogma?
I think its time they had their wings clipped.
With love and respect of course.

Alice in Blunderland
22-Apr-10, 22:36
from contact with muslims.Who were pretty upfront about the whole thing, thats why you never see women at a muslim funeral, they have to stay behind and make the food, and then be seperated from the men by a screen!!!! very 21st century :roll:

Must ask my Muslim contact about this one :roll: I'm sure that this isn't quite right but maybe Im not quite in touch with the Muslim way of life. ;)

Alice in Blunderland
22-Apr-10, 22:40
The fact that they do here just confirms that they are deliberately doing it as a sign of defiance that says we do not want to integrate with the host nation. If thats the case ,go and wear it in a place were its regarded as "normal".

And if its not the case ?

Bazeye
22-Apr-10, 22:42
And if its not the case ?

Then dont wear them here.

golach
22-Apr-10, 22:47
Then dont wear them here.

I think your banging Nick Griffins drum here.

Bazeye
22-Apr-10, 22:52
I think your banging Nick Griffins drum here.

Dont you mean this fellas drum?

Nigel Farage, the former UKIP leader and MEP, said: “In a liberal democracy we want to tolerate different religions and cultures and not have a small section of society impose their world view on the rest of us.” Announcing the policy, Mr Farage, who will contest John Bercow’s Buckingham seat in the election, said that Britain faced a “ghettoisation” that was a threat to society. “There is nothing extreme or radical about this. We can’t go on living in a divided society,” Mr Farage said.

equusdriving
22-Apr-10, 22:55
Christians are beginning to grumble about what they see as discrimination too. Not being allowed to wear religious jewelry

And the banning of Christmas trees in some schools and christmas decorations in some shopping centres

But the joke of it is this is all so as not to offend Muslims who have chosen to live in a Christian Country
I can just see Muslim countries pandering to the wishes and beliefs of Christians.....I dont think!!!!!!!!!!

Why is it seen as racist to put brits rights and beliefs before those of anyone else who have chosen to live here????

Alice in Blunderland
22-Apr-10, 22:55
Then dont wear them here.

Why not are we not supposed to be a free society unlike the society in which we are criticizing saying they are imposing restrictions :confused

Alice in Blunderland
22-Apr-10, 22:59
But the joke of it is this is all so as not to offend Muslims who have chosen to live in a Christian Country
I can just see Muslim countries pandering to the wishes and beliefs of Christians.....I dont think!!!!!!!!!!




Amen to that one the churches in this country are packed out to the door full and overflowing and all because we are such good upstanding Christians. :confused

Funny how we like to refer to Britain as a Christian society yet church attendance is on the decline and churches are closing their doors all over the country. :~(

equusdriving
22-Apr-10, 23:12
Amen to that one the churches in this country are packed out to the door full and overflowing and all because we are such good upstanding Christians. :confused

So its ok to offend the Good Christians (how ever many or few there are) But not the even fewer Muslims who have chosen to live here!!!!!!!

Funny how we like to refer to Britain as a Christian society yet church attendance is on the decline and churches are closing their doors all over the country. :~(

And banning the wearing of crosses and Christmas Trees and decorations will help this how?????

golach
22-Apr-10, 23:18
And banning the wearing of crosses and Christmas Trees and decorations will help this how?????

I dont like Christmas, an excuse to waste loads of money on stupid decorations and cards.

Andfield
22-Apr-10, 23:18
Christians are beginning to grumble about what they see as discrimination too. Not being allowed to wear religious jewelry and people in the caring industry not being able to offer prayer are just a couple of examples of modern restrictions on religious doctrine. Women priests, practising homosexuals living in manses, the Pope in danger of being arrested and ferries from lewis on a Sunday are other examples of Christianity under challenge and rightly so. Christians are struggling to adapt in a modern secular world but adapt they must.
Islam on the other hand slips in the back door and rather than adapting to the country, the country must adapt to Islam.
Has Islam offered to change to a more western friendly dogma?
I think its time they had their wings clipped.
With love and respect of course.

Well said Mr or Ms Gleeber :mad:

Alice in Blunderland
22-Apr-10, 23:19
And banning the wearing of crosses and Christmas Trees and decorations will help this how?????

I didn't realise there was a blanket ban legislating against Christmas Trees and crosses.

If we are supposed to be living in a free society then let it truly be a free society for all. :)

Bazeye
22-Apr-10, 23:23
Why not are we not supposed to be a free society unlike the society in which we are criticizing saying they are imposing restrictions :confused

You cannot build a Christian church in some Islamic countries.
You cannot kiss in public in some Islamic countries.
Western women have to cover their arms and legs in some Islamic countries.
You cannot drink alcohol in some Islamic countries.

Tolerance is about give and take, but from where I'm standing it's all one way traffic. As I stated in a previous post, "When in Rome etc".......

fred
22-Apr-10, 23:28
And the banning of Christmas trees in some schools and christmas decorations in some shopping centres

Which schools have banned Christmas trees?

Bazeye
22-Apr-10, 23:32
Which schools have banned Christmas trees?

I dont know about that, but in Coronation Street at someones wedding didnt they have to hide or cover the cross or something like that so as not to "offend" some viewers?

equusdriving
22-Apr-10, 23:33
I didn't realise there was a blanket ban legislating against Christmas Trees and crosses.

If we are supposed to be living in a free society then let it truly be a free society for all. :)

No one said there was a blanket ban if you read my first post i said
"And the banning of Christmas trees in some schools and christmas decorations in some shopping centres"


Im all for a free society but not when it is for muslims but not christians
as it seems you would like by implying that because attendance at church is down christians are not important!!!!

golach
22-Apr-10, 23:34
I dont know about that, but in Coronation Street at someones wedding didnt they have to hide or cover the cross or something like that so as not to "offend" some viewers?

Coronation Street is not real life, its a TV show!!!!!!![lol]

Alice in Blunderland
22-Apr-10, 23:40
No one said there was a blanket ban if you read my first post i said
"And the banning of Christmas trees in some schools and christmas decorations in some shopping centres"

Sorry this pesky veil keeps slipping in front of my eyes ;) :Razz



Im all for a free society but not when it is for muslims but not christians
as it seems you would like by implying that because attendance at church is down christians are not important!!!!

No I think that society should be free for ALL.

I was drawing attention to the fact that Britain is often referenced to as a Christian society when in all honesty we are mostly not any religion at all.
Churches are more empty than full how can we call ourselves a Christian society when we dont practice that religion :confused

Bazeye
22-Apr-10, 23:41
Not school but similar.
www.telegraph.co.uk/.../No-decorations-please-it-might-cause-offence.html

Alice in Blunderland
22-Apr-10, 23:41
Coronation Street is not real life, its a TV show!!!!!!![lol]


:eek:
No it cant be true Corrie not real life golach Im devastated . :p

equusdriving
22-Apr-10, 23:41
You cannot build a Christian church in some Islamic countries.
You cannot kiss in public in some Islamic countries.
Western women have to cover their arms and legs in some Islamic countries.
You cannot drink alcohol in some Islamic countries.

Tolerance is about give and take, but from where I'm standing it's all one way traffic. As I stated in a previous post, "When in Rome etc".......

Exactly !!!!!!!

changilass
22-Apr-10, 23:42
You don't have to attend church to be a christian.

golach
22-Apr-10, 23:42
:eek:
No it cant be true Corrie not real life golach Im devastated . :p

Alice, sorry lass if i have burst the bubble for you [lol]

Alice in Blunderland
22-Apr-10, 23:45
You don't have to attend church to be a christian.


True. I agree :)

equusdriving
22-Apr-10, 23:49
You don't have to attend church to be a christian.
That is very true you can be a good christian and never step inside a church

Alice in Blunderland
22-Apr-10, 23:49
You cannot build a Christian church in some Islamic countries.
You cannot kiss in public in some Islamic countries.
Western women have to cover their arms and legs in some Islamic countries.
You cannot drink alcohol in some Islamic countries.

Tolerance is about give and take, but from where I'm standing it's all one way traffic. As I stated in a previous post, "When in Rome etc".......

And from where Im standing its not for some :)

Alice in Blunderland
22-Apr-10, 23:50
That is very true you can be a good christian and never step inside a church

I agree. :)

fred
22-Apr-10, 23:52
You cannot build a Christian church in some Islamic countries.


The only Islamic country I know of which doesn't allow the building of churches is Saudi Arabia.

There are good Muslim countries and bad ones just like there are good Christian countries and bad ones. Do we want Britain to be one of the good ones or one of the bad ones?

golach
22-Apr-10, 23:52
That is very true you can be a good christian and never step inside a church

And likewise, many Muslims may never set foot in Mosques

fred
22-Apr-10, 23:56
Not school but similar.
www.telegraph.co.uk/.../No-decorations-please-it-might-cause-offence.html

Your link doesn't work but it seems no school has actually banned Christmas trees.

Alice in Blunderland
23-Apr-10, 00:00
In Pakistan ( A Muslim state )

You can buy alcohol and drink, worship in a church, wear what you like, kiss in public, If your a woman you can attend a funeral, go to University, work drive get divorced if Mr right turns out to be Mr wrong and much, much more. :)

fred
23-Apr-10, 00:09
I dont know about that, but in Coronation Street at someones wedding didnt they have to hide or cover the cross or something like that so as not to "offend" some viewers?

I wouldn't know, I don't watch television.

So one producer on one television program is a complete idiot which everyone seems to be agreed on including Muslims. He didn't have to hide the cross at all, there are no rules or regulations saying he had to hide the cross, one man just made a very silly decision that's all. Unless he was looking for publicity that is, unless he was trying to get free advertising for his program in the Daily Mail, in that case maybe it wasn't so silly.

spurtle
23-Apr-10, 07:09
I remember seeing an 8 - 10 year old girl being fitted for her first chador in Afghanistan many years ago - (same thing, but with a mesh across the eyes). I don't imagine she had much choice in the matter).

The Drunken Duck
23-Apr-10, 07:51
From what I have seen the Christmas issue is not one that the vast majority of Muslims seek or even like. The renaming of Christmas into things like "Winterval" and, like we had here in Aberdeenshire, "Winter Festival" are decided by the "Equality and Diversity" brigade inside the Council who, in most cases, have not even asked a single Muslim IF it offended them. Anyway, the few Muslims I know are bemused as to why they get blamed for such issues they had nothing to do with !!

I dont really care if a Muslim woman wears the Burkha, as long as the wearer complies with the law of the land and removes it when the law requires, just like everyone else. Religious beliefs should not supercede the law of the land for anyone.

John Little
23-Apr-10, 07:57
We are a country where choice is free. There is nothing in Islam that forces women to wear the veil - they are told to be 'modest' in their dress and not to use it to draw attention to themselves.

I had this dicussion with a moslem friend who attempted to go into a mosque in North Africa wearing trousers and shirt instead of one of those long robe things. A guy at the door stopped him and told him he could not go into the mosque wearing 'Un Islamic dress'. My friend blew up at him and told he that he answered to God for what he did and not to him; that there was no such thing as Islamic dress and that he was going to pray and that the man should get out of his way. Which loud row attracted the attention of the Imam who ruled my friend totally correct and let him in. The other guy was just trying to impose.

Islamic dress does not exist.

But if women want to wear veils of any sort then that is surely their choice. Personally I think it an unwise choice. If they are enjoined to be 'modest' then wearing a veil in a society where it is not usual draws attention to them and could be seen as 'immodest' as my friend pointed out.

But if we ban the veil because it hides identity then we should also ban the wearing of hoods by pimply teenagers.....

fred
23-Apr-10, 08:22
I remember seeing an 8 - 10 year old girl being fitted for her first chador in Afghanistan many years ago - (same thing, but with a mesh across the eyes). I don't imagine she had much choice in the matter).

About as much choice as a young kid gets here about wearing a school uniform I would expect.

fred
23-Apr-10, 08:25
I had this dicussion with a moslem friend who attempted to go into a mosque in North Africa wearing trousers and shirt instead of one of those long robe things. A guy at the door stopped him and told him he could not go into the mosque wearing 'Un Islamic dress'. My friend blew up at him and told he that he answered to God for what he did and not to him; that there was no such thing as Islamic dress and that he was going to pray and that the man should get out of his way. Which loud row attracted the attention of the Imam who ruled my friend totally correct and let him in. The other guy was just trying to impose.


You get the same hassle if you try going into a night club here with trainers on.

John Little
23-Apr-10, 08:34
Well I will concede the point Fred - I havenae been to a nightclub for over 30 years. :cool:

equusdriving
23-Apr-10, 08:42
I dont really care if a Muslim woman wears the Burkha, as long as the wearer complies with the law of the land and removes it when the law requires, just like everyone else. Religious beliefs should not supercede the law of the land for anyone.
I agree totally

northener
23-Apr-10, 09:04
I remember seeing an 8 - 10 year old girl being fitted for her first chador in Afghanistan many years ago - (same thing, but with a mesh across the eyes). I don't imagine she had much choice in the matter).

And young Jewish boys get no say in being physically mutilated in the name of religion, Spurtle. Shouldn't we be more concerned about that, rather than on the fact someone wears a certain item of clothing in public? I think charges of physical abuse and breach of human rights could be a winner on that one. It's been going on in the UK for centuries, but, apparently, that's 'OK'.

On a more general point, some people appear to be terrified about the 'spread' of Islam. I hear no voices of dissent from these people regarding the more rabid sections of the Christian belief system that insist it is every Christians duty to evangalise and 'convert' as many as possible.

We've spent hundreds of years ruthlessly crushing any resistance to Christianity and then some of the so-called 'Christians' of the UK have the neck to whine because an aternative religion appears to be making headway..and I'd dispute that argument, anyway.

Bazeye
23-Apr-10, 13:02
The only Islamic country I know of which doesn't allow the building of churches is Saudi Arabia.

Yemen dont either.

bekisman
23-Apr-10, 13:23
PS: IMO anyone can wear what they like...

Found this interesting piece from a Muslim

'In particular I wish to look at Cathy’s last sentiment: “you can bet your bottom dollar that we would not be able to build a Christian church in the Muslim countries.” It seems that this is a common notion amongst many Christians in the west. Many a time does one see this lie oft-repeated on the blogsphere as being the Gospel truth. For example the following is taken from a speech given by well known anti-Islam bigot Nonie Darwish:
“Arab governments have access to build mosques in the West, but they give Americans no access to build churches or synagogues in Muslim countries.”
I have travelled in the Muslim world and know that this statement/claim is an absolute lie. There are many Christians and their churches throughout the Muslim world. In order to refute the lie that there are no churches in the Muslim world I present the following images from the Muslim world:
http://islam-west.com/2007/11/christian-churches-in-muslim-countries.html (http://islam-west.com/2007/11/christian-churches-in-muslim-countries.html)

Boozeburglar
23-Apr-10, 13:37
I don't accept oppression as a means of fighting supposed oppression.

The French are suspect in their motivations I think.

As the Dutch are.

fred
23-Apr-10, 15:15
Yemen dont either.

There are four Christian churches in Yemen, the ruin of the old Christ Church Aden was completely restored and rededicated in 1997.

Crackeday
23-Apr-10, 15:18
Must ask my Muslim contact about this one :roll: I'm sure that this isn't quite right but maybe Im not quite in touch with the Muslim way of life. ;)
True story, after the Taliban were pushed back in Afghanistan a US female reporter asked some Afghan women why they still did this now they were liberated. The answer - landmines!
there You go!!![lol]

annthracks
23-Apr-10, 16:05
promote their cause by realising the fear and animosity that this particular aspect of their CHOSEN religion creates

It's not a religious requirement Doreen.
I'd love to see how far a Klansman would get with his regalia on... if only to see the sh1t getting kicked out of him :D

annthracks
23-Apr-10, 16:13
About as much choice as a young kid gets here about wearing a school uniform I would expect.

That's so you can tell which school they're skiving from :)

annthracks
23-Apr-10, 16:20
I don't think that's considered a racial slur is it? Isn't it a reference to what they eat like "Pom" or "Limey" or "Spud" is a reference to what British people eat. Thought it was just like calling an American a "Yank" or a Scottish person a "Jock" or a Welsh person "Taffy".

I don't find it racially offensive being referred to as "Rostboef" or however our froggy friends spell it!
What I do find offensive are narrow minded do-gooders who decide for others what is offensive to them!! bl00dy pc-ers

Alice in Blunderland
24-Apr-10, 17:25
True story, after the Taliban were pushed back in Afghanistan a US female reporter asked some Afghan women why they still did this now they were liberated. The answer - landmines!
there You go!!![lol]

I must be having a senior moment but I don't get this ? :confused

changilass
24-Apr-10, 17:28
Safer walking behind than straight onto the landmine, I would imagine Alice.

Crackeday
25-Apr-10, 11:17
Safer walking behind than straight onto the landmine, I would imagine Alice.
yip thats it changi!!!!!:lol: