View Full Version : Are you against Fox Hunting?
Enclosed is an email I received from Hilary Benn which should scare you if you think that Fox Hunting is banned:
Dear %$%£$^%,
i'm sure you will have seen today's Independent report that fox hunters around the country have been flooding key constituencies with resources in a bid to get pro-hunting members of the Conservative Party elected to Parliament.
They have lost the argument but now a tiny group of hunters want to get their supporters into Parliament.
We have the chance to stop them, but the anti-hunting candidates in these seats need the resources to fight back.
Click here to write to your MP
http//www.backtheban.com/contact-your-mps (http://www.backtheban.com/contact-your-mps)
If the Vote OK operation succeeds then we're sure to see hunting with dogs legalised in the next Parliament.
Naturally, the pro-hunting lobby are keen to keep this funding as quiet as possible. So we have to let local people know the realty of their candidate's pro hunting stance, but we can only do that with your help.
The work that supporters are doing through Back the Ban is hugely important to preventing the return of hunting.
But to ensure that the ban remains in place, we need to ensure that MPs who back it are elected to Parliament at the next election.
Donating to candidates who support the ban will help level the playing field and stop those candidates who support hunting from having the chance to bring it back.
Regards
Hilary .
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What we can do here in Caithness & Sutherland is to contact our prospective MP's and Councillors, and find out what their stance is on Hunting,
if you are unsure who your MP is please pm me with your post code.
Kathy@watten
31-Mar-10, 23:26
Sorry will not be signing anything to this effect, am pro hunt and pro choice......doesn't make me a bad person just like to be able to choose!
I think there is a bit of animal cruelty going on here - its called flogging a dead horse.
I think there is a bit of animal cruelty going on here - its called flogging a dead horse.
Oh my goodness, they flog dead horses in Caithness???
Sigh.... you're probably right, where do I sign? ;)
Oh my goodness, they flog dead horses in Caithness???
Sigh.... you're probably right, where do I sign? ;)
look back around 2006 lots of good stuff in the archives Moira[lol]
Anfield was around then, Golach, sharing his very important emails with us? What did he call himself at that time?
Anfield was around then, Golach, sharing his very important emails with us? What did he call himself at that time?
Oh dear was he? Moira, I am shocked
luskentyre
01-Apr-10, 00:20
Sorry will not be signing anything to this effect, am pro hunt and pro choice......doesn't make me a bad person just like to be able to choose!
How nice to be able to choose. I assume you will give the fox the ability to choose to take part as well?
Thought not...
annemarie482
01-Apr-10, 00:25
i'm also for fox hunting,
having seen what damage the can do
provided it is carried out responsibly by gamekeepers
and using a gun for a swift kill.
do not agree with the horse and hound chase though, as it shouldn't be a sport.
its for other animals stock preservation, and management of fox numbers.
Boozeburglar
01-Apr-10, 02:05
Hunting with dogs/horses is totally ineffective.
Who is this Hilary Benn woman soliciting £20 from the peasants ?.
She must be out of touch with what is happening in the country as fox hunting was banned years ago.
Sounds like one of these internet scams to me, probably some Nigerian got hold of a computer and a gullible .orger
northener
01-Apr-10, 08:40
Hmmm...noted Left Winger looking for support to stop Conservatives getting into power on back of emotive minority issue.......
"Vote Leftie - or Reynard gets it."
What an unusual ploy. I bet that's never been tried before.
"Back The Ban" - my arse.
annemarie482
01-Apr-10, 08:42
lol davie!
So: Yes, No, No, Don't Know, Don't Know, Yes, No, Yes, No and Me... Yes.
Not a bad pole that ;)
Although I think some voted twice, What is this? a trades union conference!!!
Don't say you were not warned - DO NOT send the £20.
Sooner or later this Hilary burd will be found on some Caribbean beach surrounded by empty gin bottles, knackered gigolos, Peter Meddlesom, a 5 litre drum of vaseline, two broken crack pipes, and several copies of the Daily Worker.
She will have receipts from a non-existent electrician for installing non existent leccy in her
palm leaf huttie and when Joe.orger asks where his £20 went she will say "Bog off ya mug, ye - I claim Parliamentary priviledge and your £20 is gorn".
The fox isn't the only animal persecuted by man, once prevalent throughout the world the mock is fast becoming an endangered species. In the East their meat is sought after to mix with turtle to make soup, in America their hard wearing skins are used by Native Americans to make foot ware. In Britain High Street stores still openly sell mock fur coats, live animals are still sold at mock auctions.
Every weekend down in England horse riders are turning out to go on mock hunts, the mock hounds scurry around in all directions looking for a scent, running a mock as it is known.
In a civilised society isn't it time this barbaric practice was brought to an end?
YES!
Unless it's done humanely using a gun, no horses or dogs involved as that imo is totally barbaric!
The fox isn't the only animal persecuted by man, once prevalent throughout the world the mock is fast becoming an endangered species. In the East their meat is sought after to mix with turtle to make soup, in America their hard wearing skins are used by Native Americans to make foot ware. In Britain High Street stores still openly sell mock fur coats, live animals are still sold at mock auctions.
Every weekend down in England horse riders are turning out to go on mock hunts, the mock hounds scurry around in all directions looking for a scent, running a mock as it is known.
In a civilised society isn't it time this barbaric practice was brought to an end?
You are 100% on the button there Fred old chap.
It is not often that a cause comes up on the .org which is dear to my heart but this is one of them (probably the first).
Should we not organise a partition to the Government about this or maybe print some leaflets to highlight this obnoxious practice ?.
I would be willing to take on the administrative and financial burden of this and ensure that your voices are heard at the highest level.
Anyone with the interest of these poor mocks at heart can send me a donation c/o the .org.
Remember £20 will save a mock and £50 will save 2.5 mocks. Cash money only please in a brown envelope.
Thank you for your concern.
Davie
xxx
The Drunken Duck
01-Apr-10, 10:06
The fox isn't the only animal persecuted by man, once prevalent throughout the world the mock is fast becoming an endangered species. In the East their meat is sought after to mix with turtle to make soup, in America their hard wearing skins are used by Native Americans to make foot ware. In Britain High Street stores still openly sell mock fur coats, live animals are still sold at mock auctions.
Every weekend down in England horse riders are turning out to go on mock hunts, the mock hounds scurry around in all directions looking for a scent, running a mock as it is known.
In a civilised society isn't it time this barbaric practice was brought to an end?
:D
Fred .. use this sense of humour more. Please.
My mock is outraged.......or is that mock outrage.......whatever I shall be writing a very stern mock letter to.....to......somebody.
The fox isn't the only animal persecuted by man, once prevalent throughout the world the mock is fast becoming an endangered species. In the East their meat is sought after to mix with turtle to make soup, in America their hard wearing skins are used by Native Americans to make foot ware. In Britain High Street stores still openly sell mock fur coats, live animals are still sold at mock auctions.
Every weekend down in England horse riders are turning out to go on mock hunts, the mock hounds scurry around in all directions looking for a scent, running a mock as it is known.
In a civilised society isn't it time this barbaric practice was brought to an end?
I like it :lol:
northener
01-Apr-10, 10:37
Fred, I openly mock your anti-Mock hunting stance.
You're making a mockery out of thousands of responsible Mock hunters.
If it wasn't for mock hunting keeping mocks at sustainable levels by culling feeble and weak mocks, we would be awash with mocks only fit for mocking.
I've now said 'mock' that many times that it is now beginning to lose it's meaning every time I look at it.......:confused
This link will inform you who your MP is:
http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/
I used to be but I'm not now for reasons explained in the previously closed thread.
I predict this thread will fail
http://imagechan.com/images/Shipment.jpeg
Don't say you were not warned - DO NOT send the £20.
Sooner or later this Hilary burd will be found on some Caribbean beach surrounded by empty gin bottles, knackered gigolos, Peter Meddlesom, a 5 litre drum of vaseline, two broken crack pipes, and several copies of the Daily Worker.
She will have receipts from a non-existent electrician for installing non existent leccy in her
palm leaf huttie and when Joe.orger asks where his £20 went she will say "Bog off ya mug, ye - I claim Parliamentary priviledge and your £20 is gorn".
Some village has obviously lost its homophobic idiot
Some village has obviously lost its homophobic idiot
Cheapshot!!!!!!
His views on fox hunting have nothing to do with being homophobic!
I would not actively "go looking for" foxes, however, if there was one on my ground and actively killing / harassing my livestock, then I would not hesitate to shoot / either to scare it off or if need be kill it.
Fox hunting, is a blood sport and I am against that.
Cheapshot!!!!!!
His views on fox hunting have nothing to do with being homophobic!
So it is just another failing of his character.
Read his second paragraph again or are his "hints" too subtle for you
Cheapshot!!!!!!
His views on fox hunting have nothing to do with being homophobic!
Now Sir Harry old chaps, I have never offered any views on fox hunting, merely pointed out earlier that fox hunting is banned in this Utopia of ours.
For the enlightenment of the o.p. "banned" means that it is not allowed, i.e. verboten, dinna do it, against the law etc.
Now I had to look up this homo thing that I apparently have and it says nothing about having any views (or not) about fox hunting.
I suppose there is a loose connection if one is mounted on a horse when engaged in this illegal past-time, i.e. the "thunder of horses hooves" and all that horsey stuff.
Its all too deep for me - I will just send the £20 to Hilary and keep my idiot trap shut.
Can the o.p. give us her address please ?
The Drunken Duck
01-Apr-10, 13:13
So it is just another failing of his character.
Read his second paragraph again or are his "hints" too subtle for you
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5623/threadjack.jpg
northener
01-Apr-10, 13:36
I don't really have that much of an opinion either way on the rights or wrongs of hunting foxes with hounds....but:
"Back The Ban"?
Well, as I said earlier, "My arse".
Looks good doesn't it? A group set up to fight what for some is a noble cause. No doubt those who like Mr Fox will view these people as saviours of Britains wildlife. Seems a reasonable assumption, doesn't it, fellow woodland folk?
Ooooh, hang on a minute. What's this say on the "Back The Ban" website?
"this donation facility is provided for individuals to make donations to the Labour Party. UK companies, limited liability partnerships, trade unions and unincorporated associations may also make donations to the Labour Party. Please call the Compliance Unit on 020 7783 1498 for more details"
And you honestly think your twenty quid is going towards defending Reynard and his chums?[lol][lol][lol]
Honesty is not exactly a New Labour strong point these days........
[And you honestly think your twenty quid is going towards defending Reynard and his chums?[lol][lol][lol]
Honesty is not exactly a New Labour strong point these days........
So all along this was just another New Liebour scam and there was me blaming some impoverished Nigerian who had found a computer ?
Just as well I had not gone to the Post Box with my £20 for the darling Hilaree, it would have been spent on champagne and red roses for the politburo.
Nearly bit for this one - no wonder I am the village idiot.
Ooooh, hang on a minute. What's this say on the "Back The Ban" website?
"this donation facility is provided for individuals to make donations to the Labour Party. UK companies, limited liability partnerships, trade unions and unincorporated associations may also make donations to the Labour Party. Please call the Compliance Unit on 020 7783 1498 for more details"
And you honestly think your twenty quid is going towards defending Reynard and his chums?[lol][lol][lol]
Honesty is not exactly a New Labour strong point these days........
Well spotted Northerner.
As I, and the majority of the population of the UK, did not vote for Blair/Browns New Labour, I have no wish to help them in their fundraising.
I have therefore deleted the links to the donation site. The only link on the post now takes you direct to the find your MP page of the Back The Ban site.
If people do want to make a donation to an organisation that is opposing the reintroduction of hunting, may I suggest the following:
http://www.league.org.uk/content.aspx?CategoryID=326
or
http://hsa.enviroweb.org/
northener
01-Apr-10, 15:22
Well spotted Northerner.
As I, and the majority of the population of the UK, did not vote for Blair/Browns New Labour, I have no wish to help them in their fundraising.
I have therefore deleted the links to the donation site. The only link on the post now takes you direct to the find your MP page of the Back The Ban site.
If people do want to make a donation to an organisation that is opposing the reintroduction of hunting, may I suggest the following:
http://www.league.org.uk/content.aspx?CategoryID=326
or
http://hsa.enviroweb.org/
Anfield, your integrity remains intact in my opinion.
My aim wasn't to ridicule (would say 'mock'...but i may get a slap), just to point out that all is not what it seems.
Shabbychic
01-Apr-10, 15:26
Who is this Hilary Benn woman soliciting £20 from the peasants ?.
She must be out of touch with what is happening in the country as fox hunting was banned years ago.
Sounds like one of these internet scams to me, probably some Nigerian got hold of a computer and a gullible .orger
Hilary Benn is a man. :D
Hunting with dogs may have been banned, but David Cameron plans to bring it back, and he is using this as a campaign tactic. It is not just Fox Hunting that is involved, but also Hare Coursing and Deer Hunting with dogs. :mad:
In the very best traditions of left wing gutter politics a very quick back pedal there - Hilaree & her politburo pals would be proud of you !.
Apparently this LACS kills more animals in its sanctuaries than it saves if one wants to look on the interweb.
Somewhere you will also find that a large proportion of your donations goes to fund a certain political party - after the management have had their cut. Just around a Million Squids or so.
I think there is a bit of animal cruelty going on here - its called flogging a dead horse.
Oy you,leave the horses alone.
An any mention of hillary benn---at all is enough to get me on my high horse right away.
Hilary Benn is a man. :D
Hunting with dogs may have been banned, but David Cameron plans to bring it back, and he is using this as a campaign tactic. It is not just Fox Hunting that is involved, but also Hare Coursing and Deer Hunting with dogs. :mad:
Hilary Benn is a man ?? - why is he pretending to be a woman and soliciting money under false pretences ??
You obviously have more knowledge of the Conservative manifesto than I, bringing back Fox hunting, Hare coursing, and Deer hunting with dogs does not appear anywhere on the interweb pages I can find.
Of course if all that is as you say, whats the problem ?. No one is going to vote for him.
Shabbychic
01-Apr-10, 15:46
Hilary Benn is a man ?? - why is he pretending to be a woman and soliciting money under false pretences ??
You obviously have more knowledge of the Conservative manifesto than I, bringing back Fox hunting, Hare coursing, and Deer hunting with dogs does not appear anywhere on the interweb pages I can find.
Of course if all that is true, whats the problem ?. No one is going to vote for him.
Try here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542992/Tory-plan-to-overturn-hunt-ban.html), and here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8521030.stm), and here (http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews.co.uk/news/Cameron-backs-hunting-veto-region-visit/article-1946912-detail/article.html), for example. :mad:
I really, really hope your last statement is true. :)
Try here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542992/Tory-plan-to-overturn-hunt-ban.html), and here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8521030.stm), and here (http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews.co.uk/news/Cameron-backs-hunting-veto-region-visit/article-1946912-detail/article.html), for example. :mad:
I really, really hope your last statement is true. :)
I accept the Cameron fellow has made these statements but as you probably know all politicians are liars. Maybe he was hust trying to wind up the opposition ?.
Statements to the press or others are hardly an election manifesto and that is what I would like to see.
As I said, and you obviously agree, no one is going to vote for this buffoon, so what is the problem exactly ?.
I would not actively "go looking for" foxes, however, if there was one on my ground and actively killing / harassing my livestock, then I would not hesitate to shoot / either to scare it off or if need be kill it.
Fox hunting, is a blood sport and I am against that.
I'm with you on that one Commore - when we had free range chickens (30,000 eggs a year) if I saw a fox after my hens I'd blow the fox to bits with my 12 bore..
I'm with you on that one Conmore - when we had free range chickens (30,000 eggs a year) if I saw a fox after my hens I'd blow the fox to bits with my 12 bore..
Maybe if you made sure that your chickens were secure you would not have had a problem with foxes.
There are plenty of free range chicken owners, who have more birds than you had, who dont have a problem with foxes.
is that the mocking bird ur on about :lol:
Maybe if you made sure that your chickens were secure you would not have had a problem with foxes.
There are plenty of free range chicken owners, who have more birds than you had, who dont have a problem with foxes.
Name just one. I'd love to know their secret...
Maybe if you made sure that your chickens were secure you would not have had a problem with foxes.
There are plenty of free range chicken owners, who have more birds than you had, who dont have a problem with foxes.
Now Anfield you know it is easier for Farmers not to act responsibly and blame anything else.
I heard a Farmer once spouting about how he worked alongside nature and was at one with the land. He had spent the last 30 years exterminating every last fured or feathered resident of "his" land of any persuasion whatsoever.:roll:
Name just one. I'd love to know their secret...
Freshfields Animal Rescue Centre
http://www.freshfieldsrescue.org.uk/
Hillside
http://www.hillside.org.uk/
I am sure that you can also purchase books & DVd's on Animal Husbandry, which will teach you the basics of looking after your livestock.
Freshfields Animal Rescue Centre
http://www.freshfieldsrescue.org.uk/
Hillside
http://www.hillside.org.uk/
I am sure that you can also purchase books & DVd's on Animal Husbandry, which will teach you the basics of looking after your livestock.
Rescue sites? Are you having a laugh - April fools is now over. I don't see any free range chickens on either site.
Neither has fencing any different to the average farmer :confused:
I feel sorry for anyone that can gain a sense of pleasure from filling an animal with total fear before watching it being torn to shreds. Ok...this may happen in the wild every single day, but to be a deliberate part of setting that path in motion?...you should be ashamed of yourself.
[QUOTE=Anfield;
I am sure that you can also purchase books & DVd's on Animal Husbandry, which will teach you the basics of looking after your livestock.[/QUOTE]
I fear that the great majority of livestock keepers in Caithness & Sutherland might consign your books to the outhouse - they have been practising animal husbandry with some success for a few hundred years without reference to books or DVDs
These books are aimed at the people who want to live on (or off) the land but do not really have a clue. To put it another way - the gullible types who come along from time to time.
Name just one. I'd love to know their secret...
The aforementioned 12 bore!
Freshfields Animal Rescue Centre
http://www.freshfieldsrescue.org.uk/
Is this the Fresh Fields Rescue place you are on about?:
Animal rights activists involved in bid to shut lab among 30 arrested in raids
One of the addresses raided was the Freshfields Animal Rescue Centre on Merseyside. Dave Callender, who runs the centre, has convictions for firebombing and formerly chaired the Animal Liberation Front (Alf) on Merseyside.
Mr Callender, 47, was jailed for 10 years in March 1996 for conspiring to commit arson. A jury at Birmingham crown court heard he had enough material to make more than 100 incendiary devices.
The prosecution alleged that he was planning a "campaign directed at a number of targets which included cattle farms, slaughterhouses, meat traders, egg production farms and also societies connected with hunting or other field sports". Mr Callender was also a leader of demonstrations against fox hunting, hare coursing and the Grand National.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/may/02/businessofresearch.ukcrime (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/may/02/businessofresearch.ukcrime)
Maybe if you made sure that your chickens were secure you would not have had a problem with foxes.
There are plenty of free range chicken owners, who have more birds than you had, who dont have a problem with foxes.
Don't see hens there on your link? By the way can you confirm that Conmore is included in this rebuke?
Have you ever had chickens?: Nope. I did and did not lose a single bird - now ain't that good, i.e. no 'problem' with foxes ;)
Freshfields Animal Rescue Centre
http://www.freshfieldsrescue.org.uk/
Hillside
http://www.hillside.org.uk/
I am sure that you can also purchase books & DVd's on Animal Husbandry, which will teach you the basics of looking after your livestock.
so which book/setup etc do you use?
Is this the Fresh Fields Rescue place you are on about?:
Animal rights activists involved in bid to shut lab among 30 arrested in raids
One of the addresses raided was the Freshfields Animal Rescue Centre on Merseyside. Dave Callender, who runs the centre, has convictions for firebombing and formerly chaired the Animal Liberation Front (Alf) on Merseyside.
Mr Callender, 47, was jailed for 10 years in March 1996 for conspiring to commit arson. A jury at Birmingham crown court heard he had enough material to make more than 100 incendiary devices.
The prosecution alleged that he was planning a "campaign directed at a number of targets which included cattle farms, slaughterhouses, meat traders, egg production farms and also societies connected with hunting or other field sports". Mr Callender was also a leader of demonstrations against fox hunting, hare coursing and the Grand National.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/may/02/businessofresearch.ukcrime (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/may/02/businessofresearch.ukcrime)
It bothers me that people who promote this type of thing are allowed to wander the country freely.
God forbid, we could have been infiltrated even now.
Be careful, be very careful. That new neighbour may not be what you think.
Name just one. I'd love to know their secret...
Er well, we are one.
There again, only fair to say, that where we lived there were no foxes, in fact there were no predators of the on land type, maybe the odd otter from the sea. :)
Don't see hens there on your link? By the way can you confirm that Conmore is included in this rebuke?
Have you ever had chickens?: Nope. I did and did not lose a single bird - now ain't that good, i.e. no 'problem' with foxes ;)
Bekisman, :) friend..........it's Commore :lol:
Is this the Fresh Fields Rescue place you are on about?:
One of the addresses raided was the Freshfields Animal Rescue Centre on Merseyside. Dave Callender, who runs the centre, has convictions for firebombing and formerly chaired the Animal Liberation Front (Alf) on Merseyside.
Can you do another internet search and inform members whether or not Mr Callender (who incidentally was a Volunteer for F.A.R.C. and not "running" the centre) was ever arrested or charged with any offence relating to this "raid".
If you look further into article you will see that he states that "..he had given up his activist past.." Proof that rehabilitation does work.
What is interesting about article is the fact that over 700 policemen/women were deployed to stop protests against Life Science Research Laboratories, a private company that can only trade because of the help given to it by New Labour. I wonder how many crimes were committed in the localities which these coppers come from whilst they were having on an "awayday".
The "incendiary devices" were not petrol bombs and did not contain any flammable contents. they were merely smoke bombs designed to set off sprinkler systems, but hey the red tops loved a "Firebomb" headline
Whilst you are doing searches, may I suggest that you look into the criminal history of people associated with:
Countryside Alliance(and it's previous name British Field Sports Supporters), BASC, National Gamekeepers Organisation, various terrier clubs Devon & Somerset Staghounds etc etc
Don't see hens there on your link? By the way can you confirm that Conmore is included in this rebuke?
Have you ever had chickens?: Nope. I did and did not lose a single bird - now ain't that good, i.e. no 'problem' with foxes ;)
I do not know Commore, so cant cooment on them
If you never lost a bird to a fox, why are you defending the killing of foxes.
Would your time not be better spent educating the likes of Leeanne on how to look after her animals, She does need some friends
I fear that the great majority of livestock keepers in Caithness & Sutherland might consign your books to the outhouse - they have been practising animal husbandry with some success for a few hundred years without reference to books or DVDs
These books are aimed at the people who want to live on (or off) the land but do not really have a clue. To put it another way - the gullible types who come along from time to time.
Davie, I thought I would leave you to the last.
Couple of questions for you:
If the Caithness & Sutherland Livestock keepers have been such brilliant stewards to the land, flora and fauna? why is Scotland losing so much of its wildlife, forests, sand dunes etc. year after year.
Sea Eagles, exterminated in the early 1900's and on its reintroduction poisoned along with Golden Eagles, Buzzards and other raptors by gamekeepers.
When was the last time you saw a capercaille?
Do you see any "Pure" Scottish Wildcats in Kimbrace
Caledonian forests are now down to less than 1% of their original size
Mountain Hares, I have not seen one in years
Why do so many estates/ gamekeepers end in court for poisoning birds of prey?
Rescue sites? Are you having a laugh - April fools is now over. I don't see any free range chickens on either site.
Neither has fencing any different to the average farmer :confused:
So because you can not see birds from website, you dispute the fact that it is impossible to raise chickens in free range conditions without them being taken by foxes.
Take a look at posts above from Bekiman & Commore.
As they say attack is the best form of defence !.
How anyone can 'defend the indefensible' as in the case of your lunatic Merseyside buddies just beats me but I suppose the odd bit of fire raising is quite in order when required for the cause.
Was your mate who got the 10 stretch really repentant or was that a porkie to lessen the sentence ?
So many questions that I can not answer, you seem to refer to gamekeepers whilst I thought the subject was about animal husbandry as in farmers & crofters.
I suppose you know as little about the one as you do the other, you can probably get a book or DVD on the subject.
Anyway I am sure you have had a trying day, conned by some New Liebour burd into soliciting donations under false pretences.
Then bitten by the LACS who give your donations straight to the same party ( only £1 million before the last election )
And finally your buddies on Merseyside exposed for the criminal lunatics they are.
Now one of these three might be a mistake, two would be unfortunate, but three ?. Even the village idiot would not fall for that load of piffle.
Davie, I answered bekimans points and even corrected him where he was factually wrong.
You answer the questions I asked you and then I will answer yours - Thats how Q&A sessions work
Bekisman, :) friend..........it's Commore :lol:
Aaah!
Really sorry Commore - as you know, you are my only 'official friend' on the Org, and bearing in mind the number of PM's we exchange - I should be well aware.. just a mistype (well I am old!) ;)
Maybe if you made sure that your chickens were secure you would not have had a problem with foxes.
There are plenty of free range chicken owners, who have more birds than you had, who dont have a problem with foxes.
Duh.. obviously you do not have a clue, and have gone off waffling without investigating the facts.
My hens were protected by a 6 foot high, 2" mesh wire netting fence, running around the whole perimeter secured on 3 x 3 inch posts, concreted 18 inches into the deck. The netting was additionally buried 12 inches into the ground. But you seem unaware (what's new?) that a fox will attempt to get at hens; I reiterate my original quote; "if I saw a fox after my hens I'd blow the fox to bits with my 12 bore.. " still holds.. It would be rather decent if you apologised for your wrong assertion that my chickens were not secure, but hey, I won't hold my breath. :roll:
cuddlepop
02-Apr-10, 08:26
Without going into a big debate the answeres yes I'm against fox hunting for purely "sporting" pleasure.
Surely there must be a more humane way to keep population at check whilst protecting livestock:confused.
I do not know Commore, so cant cooment on them
If you never lost a bird to a fox, why are you defending the killing of foxes.
Would your time not be better spent educating the likes of Leeanne on how to look after her animals, She does need some friends
Oh dear Tut Tut
Mystical Potato Head
02-Apr-10, 08:52
Duh.. obviously you do not have a clue, and have gone off waffling without investigating the facts.
My hens were protected by a 6 foot high, 2" mesh wire netting fence, running around the whole perimeter secured on 3 x 3 inch posts, concreted 18 inches into the deck. The netting was additionally buried 12 inches into the ground. But you seem unaware (what's new?) that a fox will attempt to get at hens; I reiterate my original quote; "if I saw a fox after my hens I'd blow the fox to bits with my 12 bore.. " still holds.. It would be rather decent if you apologised for your wrong assertion that my chickens were not secure, but hey, I won't hold my breath. :roll:
Very well said indeed!!
Duh.. obviously you do not have a clue, and have gone off waffling without investigating the facts.
My hens were protected by a 6 foot high, 2" mesh wire netting fence, running around the whole perimeter secured on 3 x 3 inch posts, concreted 18 inches into the deck. The netting was additionally buried 12 inches into the ground. But you seem unaware (what's new?) that a fox will attempt to get at hens; I reiterate my original quote; "if I saw a fox after my hens I'd blow the fox to bits with my 12 bore.. " still holds.. It would be rather decent if you apologised for your wrong assertion that my chickens were not secure, but hey, I won't hold my breath. :roll:
Mine is similar but electrified also. The henhouse is built out of slate as foxes seem to be able to chew through wood :roll: But I know nothing about keeping animals and need DVDs and friends apparently.
Mystical Potato Head
02-Apr-10, 09:59
Mine is similar but electrified also. The henhouse is built out of slate as foxes seem to be able to chew through wood :roll: But I know nothing about keeping animals and need DVDs and friends apparently.
We all need know it all experts from down south with their internet links to keep us hicks from the sticks on the right track.
Some of us have lived up here all our lives and obviously have not a scooby doo about life in a civilised modern society.
Gotta go......just heard the bear trap snap shut.
Duh.. obviously you do not have a clue, and have gone off waffling without investigating the facts.
My hens were protected by a 6 foot high, 2" mesh wire netting fence, running around the whole perimeter secured on 3 x 3 inch posts, concreted 18 inches into the deck. The netting was additionally buried 12 inches into the ground. But you seem unaware (what's new?) that a fox will attempt to get at hens; I reiterate my original quote; "if I saw a fox after my hens I'd blow the fox to bits with my 12 bore.. " still holds.. It would be rather decent if you apologised for your wrong assertion that my chickens were not secure, but hey, I won't hold my breath. :roll:
Are you saying that a fox can "crack" these defences?
I managed to bag a few of the hens that escaped in Watten - the dinosaur egg on the right came out of the poor chuck's bum :(
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/l34nn3_k4ut/Photo2032.jpg
Duh.. obviously you do not have a clue, and have gone off waffling without investigating the facts.
My hens were protected by a 6 foot high, 2" mesh wire netting fence, running around the whole perimeter secured on 3 x 3 inch posts, concreted 18 inches into the deck. The netting was additionally buried 12 inches into the ground. But you seem unaware (what's new?) that a fox will attempt to get at hens; I reiterate my original quote; "if I saw a fox after my hens I'd blow the fox to bits with my 12 bore.. " still holds.. It would be rather decent if you apologised for your wrong assertion that my chickens were not secure, but hey, I won't hold my breath. :roll:
Hold my hands up and apologise for not reading your post correctly and assuming your chickens were not secure.
So can I take it that foxes did not kill any of your chickens?
So many questions that I can not answer, you seem to refer to gamekeepers whilst I thought the subject was about animal husbandry as in farmers & crofters.
I suppose you know as little about the one as you do the other,
First of all subject is not about animal husbandry, and secondly just a few of things I know about Gamekeepers, Kinbrace is mentioned in one of them
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/6719505.stm)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/6719505.stm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article474245.ece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1339741/Gamekeeper-denies-coffee-jar-poisoning-of-buzzards.html
http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/Persecution_tcm9-132992.pdf
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/549752?UserKey=
northener
02-Apr-10, 13:02
Just as an anecdote to add to the debate:
I've had a lurcher in the past that would go over a six-foot fence when put in kennels - and she was only the same size as a dog fox.
During the last heavy snow I was driving through Killimster at about 3 in the morning and could see a fox trotting towards the road from one of the fields, because of the snow it was like watching it in daylight.
When it got to the sheep and twostrand fence at the side of the road it didn't even break stride or speed up. It just went over the fence like it wasn't there. It then crossed the road and did exactly the same into the field where the Soay sheep normally are.
Now the lurcher I mentioned could have cleared the fence easily, too. But the fox made it look even easier than my dog would...bearing in mind my mutt could scramble over a six foot fence...it makes me wonder what some foxes would be capable of.
First of all subject is not about animal husbandry, and secondly just a few of things I know about Gamekeepers, Kinbrace is mentioned in one of them
No, it wasn't about animal husbandry, or gamekeepers it was about foxhunting. You can't bleat about people changing the subject of the discussion because it doesn't fit with your views and then change the subject yourself.
http://ownedirl.com/misc/Hijack-DeNiro.jpg
No, it wasn't about animal husbandry, or gamekeepers it was about foxhunting. You can't bleat about people changing the subject of the discussion because it doesn't fit with your views and then change the subject yourself.
Quite agree Leane, nice of you to bring thread back on track.
Why are so you in favour of Fox Hunting, so much in favour that you are urging me to close thread.
Quite agree Leane, nice of you to bring thread back on track.
Why are so you in favour of Fox Hunting, so much in favour that you are urging me to close thread.
I'm not in favour of it per se. I used to be very anti hunt but since the ban the population of foxes seems to have been decimated by shooting. Hunting seemed to keep the population down, shooting just seems to thin the population down indiscriminitely.
In the pre-ban days the foxes that tended to get caught were the elderly and the weak - the ones that are more likely to risk going near hoomans to take the easy pickings of livestock, as they are too poor in condition to hunt. The result was the population was kept down and the farmers were happy (not all agree with foxhunting though of course).
Now all that seems to happen is that any fox that is seen near farmland is shot rather than risk that it might take something.
The problem up here is less - there is enough 'wild' space to support the populations. In less rural areas where the farming is more intensive the foxes are being completely wiped out.
I sometimes wonder if the reason so few foxes are seen around here is that there hasn't been a local hunt. The population control has been done by landowners and the result seems to be very, very few foxes. In my childhood haunts you would see a fox at least once a day. Since moving here I 12 months ago I have seen one - and that was split in two on the wick/thurso road :(
I find the idea of hunting hard to stomach but I am starting to feel that for the long term protection of foxes it might not necessarily be a bad thing. After all foxes now do not have a 'purpose' - they could easily go the way of the wolves :(
northener
02-Apr-10, 13:35
Davie, I thought I would leave you to the last.
Couple of questions for you:
If the Caithness & Sutherland Livestock keepers have been such brilliant stewards to the land, flora and fauna? why is Scotland losing so much of its wildlife, forests, sand dunes etc. year after year.
I never realised Caithness & Sutherland livestock keepers were responsible for the whole of Scotland, Anfield.;)
Most of the forestry was lost to grazing and clearance hundreds of years ago - hardly the fault of modern 'livestock keepers'. In fact most of the landscape you see in 'wild' Scotland is the product of about 3000 years of land management.
As for sand dunes, I've yet to meet a 'livestock keeper' who has excavated sand dunes to benefit his livestock.....try big business supplying the building trade for the answer to that one.
Sea Eagles, exterminated in the early 1900's and on its reintroduction poisoned along with Golden Eagles, Buzzards and other raptors by gamekeepers.
Lets not forget the egg and chick stealers - who are definitely not gamekeepers - who have to be kept away by the Police and .....wait for it...Highland estate workers.
Don't target the majority with the problems caused by a minority, Anfield. Many highland estates have been actively involved in safeguarding these rare birds habitats and are willing to accept the 'losses' that this will bring them for the greater cause.
When was the last time you saw a capercaille?
Speak to the estate workers and gamekeepers if you want to see one. They're the ones who are helping create the habitats for these birds to survive alongside conservation groups.
Do you see any "Pure" Scottish Wildcats in Kimbrace
Wossat got to do with livestock keepers? Try talking to the people who introduce shedloads of 'pet' cats..many owners probably couldn't draw a cow or sheep - let alone manage one. Another point would be that the horrible conifer plantations we have had inflicted upon us are actually providing cover that wouldn't exist for these animals otherwise - and that goes for the Pine Marten, too.
Caledonian forests are now down to less than 1% of their original size
Ah, that'll be those pesky gamekeepers again. After all, the Caledonian forests were virtually untouched until the big shooting estates were formed in the C19th......damn them, running around with their axes;)
Mountain Hares, I have not seen one in years
Neither have I, we used to get them up on the Pennines when I were a kid.
They dwindled away without any deliberate targeting by anyone. I remember some questions about climate change - but never heard a straight answer to their demise. One theory was their loss of winter snow made them stand out like a sore thumb to predators...dunno, though.
Why do so many estates/ gamekeepers end in court for poisoning birds of prey?
That's as ridiculous as me saying "how come so many anti-hunt supporters end up being arrested and charged with violence"
Numbers expressed as a percentage of the total amount of those engaged in land management please.....
Show me your proof.
Anfield, I can understand you do not like 'hunting', but you're digging yourself a beeg hole here by using a scattergun approach.
Instinct tells me to keep well away from this thread as it appears the op is at best an apologist for the lunatics and arsonists who will stop at nothing to get their point of view across or at worst an active member of the same group.
I note that when Bekisman unveiled the truth about some of his Merseyside buddies there was no disassociation, not even a denial, not even a little remorse for the terror and trauma that these people have caused.
Instead we had some mealy mouthed claptrap about an imbecile who has already done 10 years for arson in the cause of animal rights, who has now apparently "repented".
As I said instinct ( the survival instinct) tells me to keep well away from this thread. Who knows the day when some of these Merseyside loonies will turn up here with their fire bombs ?.
Maybe they are already here.
Thanks to Northener for answering some of the questions that are not covered in the o.p's book.
Instinct tells me to keep well away from this thread as it appears the op is at best an apologist for the lunatics and arsonists who will stop at nothing to get their point of view across or at worst an active member of the same group.
I note that when Bekisman unveiled the truth about some of his Merseyside buddies there was no disassociation, not even a denial, not even a little remorse for the terror and trauma that these people have caused.
Instead we had some mealy mouthed claptrap about an imbecile who has already done 10 years for arson in the cause of animal rights, who has now apparently "repented".
As I said instinct ( the survival instinct) tells me to keep well away from this thread. Who knows the day when some of these Merseyside loonies will turn up here with their fire bombs ?.
Maybe they are already here.
Thanks to Northener for answering some of the questions that are not covered in the o.p's book.
quite right davie
Hold my hands up and apologise for not reading your post correctly and assuming your chickens were not secure.
So can I take it that foxes did not kill any of your chickens?
The only reason a fox did not kill my hens was constant vigilance by me. A fox will find a way, over, through or under a fence, every day I would check the perimeter. At times I would find fox hair snagged on the netting where the ends were bent over, I found attempts at digging - I had forestalled this by burying the wire netting in an 'L' shape so that any attempt by a fox to get through would be met by the buried wire..
I found Fox droppings (and yes I know what they look like- being a County lad and not from a large conurbation). in various areas. I was aware that foxes can chew through wire netting, but I did not experience that.
In conclusion I was fully aware that foxes were attempting to get my hens. So, as I keep referring my honourable friend to the answer I gave some moments ago: "if I saw a fox after my hens I'd blow the fox to bits with my 12 bore.." I accept your apology for your mistake with my post, as I understand a further mistake was made as pointed out by Northener # 34.
Pray forgive my ignorance, but I would be indebted to read of your own personal experiences of stock keeping, as your statements seem to indicate a certain lack of professional management by others here?
Are you saying that a fox can "crack" these defences?
They are 'cunning' blighters; A fox will find a way, over, through or under a fence (and sometimes chew through it) :mad:
Right.
Where and when is this Caithness fox hunt? I haven't got a pink coat or a horse, but I can drink port with the best of them.
George Brims
02-Apr-10, 18:58
Hunting with dogs/horses is totally ineffective.
It's also not exactly safe for the horses.
northener
02-Apr-10, 19:09
Right.
Where and when is this Caithness fox hunt? I haven't got a pink coat or a horse, but I can drink port with the best of them.
If you bring the port - I'll start the Hunt.:Razz
Maybe if you made sure that your chickens were secure you would not have had a problem with foxes.
There are plenty of free range chicken owners, who have more birds than you had, who dont have a problem with foxes.
Name just one. I'd love to know their secret...
Mine is similar but electrified also. The henhouse is built out of slate as foxes seem to be able to chew through wood But I know nothing about keeping animals and need DVDs and friends apparently.
Leane,
As you ridiculed the status of the organisations who do not have trouble with foxes killing their chickens, perhaps Bekisman could give you some tips on how to make sure that foxes do not kill your chickens. You stated that your henhouse is of similar constuction to his and that yours is also electrified. You do remember to turn your electric fence on don't you?
I accept your apology for your mistake with my post, as I understand a further mistake was made as pointed out by Northener # 34.
Pray forgive my ignorance, but I would be indebted to read of your own personal experiences of stock keeping, as your statements seem to indicate a certain lack of professional management by others here?
Incorrect. I did not make a factual mistake in #34. Read the post again and you will see that i amended original post because of links to a New Labour fundraising link.
A couple of weeks ago you started a thread requesting members to state the location where they lived (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=101216), you then made various cryptic assumptions about where you thought I lived. (can supply posts if needed)
Now you are asking me about my background.
Given that on your profile, you declare yourself to be a "Freelance investigative Journalist"
Would I be correct in thinking that this is getting a bit too creepy?
so which book/setup etc do you use?
i dont see a reply to this yet Anfield?
A couple of weeks ago you started a thread requesting members to state the location where they lived (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=101216), you then made various cryptic assumptions about where you thought I lived. (can supply posts if needed) Now you are asking me about my background. Given that on your profile, you declare yourself to be a "Freelance investigative Journalist" Would I be correct in thinking that this is getting a bit too creepy?
Eh?
'Requesting members to state the location where they lived' - tut tut, get it right man, read it again..
The question from my thread, was - even to the simple minded - asking what experience you had in livestock management Look I'll remind you: "Pray forgive my ignorance, but I would be indebted to read of your own personal experiences of stock keeping, as your statements seem to indicate a certain lack of professional management by others here?" I am obviously asking your experience relating to this, is that clear enough? Hmm I doubt it.. ;)
Anyway, I am against Fox hunting but I will be voting Conservative. I don't believe the Tories will be interested in reversing the ban. They will be relying on a labour vote swing to get them in. The last thing they will need is to be seen to be advocates of what is perceived as a toff's pastime.
I know this is boring the pants off everyone, but Anfield quotes a post I gave. Here it is:
New Members location
"Just wondering, we seem to be getting a lot of new members - which is good. But wondered why so many do not give their location? - I don't mean exactly where they are, but for example I give 'Strathy others give 'Wick' or 'Melvich' 'Lybster' 'Tucson' 'Edinburgh' 'Kuwait' etc.. quite often we've had - for example - "it's snowing here" and have no idea where it's actually snowing.. a minor point, but just wondered what the reason was.Get the feeling nervous folks on here?.. "
How on earth anyone could misconstrue my mentioning a 'minor point' as something 'creepy' is rather perplexing.. especially as you are fully aware of where I live and even went to the extent of actually naming my personal doctor - which I hasten to add was removed post haste by the mods..
As I mentioned earlier, you mock those of us who have experience in livestock - I only ask do you have experience? Ok, if this information is too personal, don't bother replying, which I'm sorry to say seems fast to becoming the norm.. Lighten up old chap, life's not too bad; honest! :lol:
Eh?
'Requesting members to state the location where they lived' - tut tut, get it right man, read it again..
;)
Just to remind you, full post as follows:
New Members location
Just wondering, we seem to be getting a lot of new members - which is good. But wondered why so many do not give their location? - I don't mean exactly where they are, but for example I give 'Strathy others give 'Wick' or 'Melvich' 'Lybster' 'Tucson' 'Edinburgh' 'Kuwait' etc.. quite often we've had - for example - "it's snowing here" and have no idea where it's actually snowing.. a minor point, but just wondered what the reason was.Get the feeling nervous folks on here?..
"Wondering" /Requesting. Semantics aside, to me, they convey the same meaning.
I think my previous post about people, who I do not know, requesting personal info is why I do not publish my "location" or any other information about myself.
I know this is boring the pants off everyone, but Anfield quotes a post I gave. Here it is:
New Members location
How on earth anyone could misconstrue my mentioning a 'minor point' as something 'creepy' is rather perplexing.. especially as you are fully aware of where I live and even went to the extent of actually naming my personal doctor - which I hasten to add was removed post haste by the mods..
Er, you state on profile that you live in Strathy. There is only one surgery in that neck of the woods, so not exactly rocket science to guess was it!
Just to remind you, full post as follows:
"Wondering" /Requesting. Semantics aside, to me, they convey the same meaning. I think my previous post about people, who I do not know, requesting personal info is why I do not publish my "location" or any other information about myself.
'Wonder equals request' eh? You can't have your own personal interpretation of words you know Anfield.. tut tut - who's this that you don't know then? (just out of interest)
PS you've not answered jazzyr1 post - seconded by chiel yet, by the way. No pressure. ;)
Er, you state on profile that you live in Strathy. There is only one surgery in that neck of the woods, so not exactly rocket science to guess was it!
You've no idea which surgery I go to, additionally you were (it seems) out of order naming my Doctor. Yawn yawn I'm off to bed; night :roll:
i dont see a reply to this yet Anfield?
OK,sorry about that but I had to go out today.
Well first of all try the Scottish Agricultural College
http://www.sac.ac.uk/consulting/services/i-r/livestock/publs/poultrytechnotes/
Then how about Defra:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/index.htm
National Union of Farmers
http://www.nfuonline.com/
European Commission
http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/index_en.htm
Then of course you have the private companies.
Amazon sell the: Dummies guide to raising poultry
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raising-Chickens-Dummies-Kimberly-Willis/dp/0470465441/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1270246894&sr=8-1-fkmr2
and also the "Dummies guide to Chicken Coop making"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Chicken-Coops-Dummies-Brock/dp/0470598964/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1270246894&sr=8-2-fkmr2
Is that enough?
PS you've not answered jazzyr1 post - seconded by chiel yet, by the way. No pressure. ;)
Most proably answered whilst you were reading my thread above
annemarie482
02-Apr-10, 23:29
[quote=Anfield;685619]OK,sorry about that but I had to go out today.
OMG you mean theres more to life than the org?! who'd have thought it lol:lol::roll:
Anfield & Bekisman, grow up and try to pretend you are adults.
Your latest spat deserves a bringing together of heads....... What a pair of Silly Billies.....
Anfield & Bekisman, grow up and try to pretend you are adults.
Your latest spat deserves a bringing together of heads....... What a pair of Silly Billies.....
Just good natured banter, as I am sure Bekisman will agree.
Now Davie, that is different, he needs help
It's not "good natured" anything when you bring the personal details you have gleaned into the process.
Back on topic, I met Mr Fox in my friend's driveway last weekend. My friend lives in Edinburgh City.. I'm more used to seeing foxes dead in the middle of the road. It was awesome, beautiful creature.
I am sure that Bekisman does not take offence from my postings, just like I don't from his.
I agree that Foxes are beautiful animals, but nowadays people up here are more used to seeing foxes like this:
Taken locally just before Christmas 2009
What is your definition of "locally"? Anfield ?
I agree that Foxes are beautiful animals, but nowadays people up here are more used to seeing foxes like this:
Taken locally just before Christmas 2009
Here we go again another picture of foxes strung up on a fence. I am not upset by your photo as i have seen foxes hung up on my own fence during lambing time after they've had there fun mauling my lambs. And before you tell me i need training in looking after livestock, i've managed quite well over the last 30 years without your help.
buggyracer
03-Apr-10, 00:40
I am sure that Bekisman does not take offence from my postings, just like I don't from his.
I agree that Foxes are beautiful animals, but nowadays people up here are more used to seeing foxes like this:
Taken locally just before Christmas 2009
just so we see both sides of the argument :confused
mods remove if need be
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/buggyracer/fox.jpg
just so we see both sides of the argument :confused
mods remove if need be
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/buggyracer/fox.jpg
People don't see both sides that's the problem, the fox can kill because well that's just nature and it has to eat but if the farmer kills the fox for what it's done that's a dispicable act. :confused
It's not "good natured" anything when you bring the personal details you have gleaned into the process.
Back on topic, I met Mr Fox in my friend's driveway last weekend. My friend lives in Edinburgh City.. I'm more used to seeing foxes dead in the middle of the road. It was awesome, beautiful creature.
It's fine Moira, although Anfield and I are the antithesis of each other and we agree on absolutely nothing - and sometimes personal details are leaked - it (really) bothers me not in the least - robust arguments, which are countered at every move.
Back on track: Re foxes; if one was trying to destroy my flock, I will shoot it dead.
Foxes may be beautiful creatures when they are walking down the street, as they do these days, but they are not so when they have been in a field killing lambs, or been into a chicken coup and killed the chickens, not for food but just for 'fun'.
After all 'technically' the fox has no predator except man now adays.
John Little
03-Apr-10, 09:17
I am neither for nor against the fox.
There is one who visits my garden, and I feed him old bones etc because I wish to encourage his presence. The reason is because we are over-run with rabbits who eat my wife's expensive plants and drive her wild. Mr Fox's visits discourage Monsieur Lapin a little bit.
There are a lot of foxes round here - because there are a lot of rabbits.
Foxes are the top of the food chain because nothing preys on them.
Somewhere above Helmsdale on the main road used to be a stone marking the place where the last wild wolf in Scotland was shot in the 18th century - probably it's gone now. Maybe wolves ate the foxes - I don't know.
What I do know is that foxes need to eat, and they will eat whatever they can- and that includes chickens and lambs - which is why farmers are at war with them. I can relate to that.
The fox is a beautiful creature and is not eaten for food and is shy of humans - well I relate to that too.
But it's hard for me to see why the fuss over hunting.
Nature is red in tooth and claw. People speak of the terror of the fox being chased and killed- but the lamb and the chicken being eaten by the fox also feel terror. That's how nature is.
Farmers shoot foxes.
They did not use to shoot so many because the hunts kept the numbers under control - one farmer told me the only reason foxes survived was because of hunting- if hunting was ended then farmers would shoot the lot within 10 years. Their numbers have to be controlled - otherwise we shall be over-run with them, like rabbits down here.
And hunting provided a certain type with a recreation they found enjoyable - the thrill of the chase. I don't do it myself and do not really get it - but I do know that beneath the veneer we are animals as well and however much we try to deny it we are still mental beasts.
Hunting is also a billion pound industry that provides jobs, puts food on table and pays mortgages.
I care not one way or the other really.
But as the argument over hunting with dogs, or shooting - it strikes me as a little absurd. It reminds me of a scene in Kirk Douglas's film Paths of Glory where two French soldiers are discussing the merits of different ways of getting killed. Imagine two foxes doing it-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uC8hbVVvJw
In the end we all die anyway.
I wonder if Monsieur Renard, outside all the anthropomorphising, makes any distinction as to how it is done?
northener
03-Apr-10, 10:00
just so we see both sides of the argument :confused
mods remove if need be
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/buggyracer/fox.jpg
Thanks for that Buggy, it may just pre-empt any clueless remarks about foxes not taking healthy lambs.
But no doubt someone will pipe up and claim that it's Photoshopped or it's a pet fox 'playing' with a friendly lamb.......
northener
03-Apr-10, 10:06
I am sure that Bekisman does not take offence from my postings, just like I don't from his.
I agree that Foxes are beautiful animals, but nowadays people up here are more used to seeing foxes like this:
Taken locally just before Christmas 2009
I'd say that shows just how many foxes there are up here, Anfield.
If you take the numbers culled there in one (presumably relatively smal) area and multiply it across the region (bearing in mind anecdotal evidence would suggest fox numbers are still increasing), then I would say that there are a hell of a lot of foxes out there.
What impact do you think these foxes will have on our ground nesting birds, for example?
Like, for example, the Eider Ducks on the Moray Firth who have had their population decimated by a huge increase in foxes, despite fencing and deterrent efforts by the Country Rangers?
Shabbychic
03-Apr-10, 10:21
just so we see both sides of the argument :confused
mods remove if need be
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/buggyracer/fox.jpg
What I would like to know is why whoever is taking this picture is not doing anything to save the lamb?
Its a stunt lamb and a trained fox. They were seen later at the tea wagon discussing the next scene.
annemarie482
03-Apr-10, 11:34
for those of you thinking about the cute fluffy little foxes out there,
you may find this interesting.
http://www.terrierwork.com/pestcontrol.htm
annemarie482
03-Apr-10, 11:42
and to be fair one for the fox lover
http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/index.html
and to be fair one for the fox lover
http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/index.htmlfor
well done for posting this ,give some people an eye opener:eek: to the damage and harm some foxes do and why farmers take action to get rid of the pests
OK,sorry about that but I had to go out today.
Well first of all try the Scottish Agricultural College
http://www.sac.ac.uk/consulting/services/i-r/livestock/publs/poultrytechnotes/
Then how about Defra:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/index.htm
National Union of Farmers
http://www.nfuonline.com/
European Commission
http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/index_en.htm
Then of course you have the private companies.
Amazon sell the: Dummies guide to raising poultry
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raising-Chickens-Dummies-Kimberly-Willis/dp/0470465441/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1270246894&sr=8-1-fkmr2
and also the "Dummies guide to Chicken Coop making"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Chicken-Coops-Dummies-Brock/dp/0470598964/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1270246894&sr=8-2-fkmr2
Is that enough?
no direct answer as to what YOU use though,eh?
OK,sorry about that but I had to go out today.
Well first of all try the Scottish Agricultural College
http://www.sac.ac.uk/consulting/services/i-r/livestock/publs/poultrytechnotes/
Then how about Defra:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/index.htm
National Union of Farmers
http://www.nfuonline.com/
European Commission
http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/index_en.htm
Then of course you have the private companies.
Amazon sell the: Dummies guide to raising poultry
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raising-Chickens-Dummies-Kimberly-Willis/dp/0470465441/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1270246894&sr=8-1-fkmr2
and also the "Dummies guide to Chicken Coop making"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Chicken-Coops-Dummies-Brock/dp/0470598964/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1270246894&sr=8-2-fkmr2
Is that enough?
No it's not. None of those show advice on how to keep foxes from the chickens as you promised. They are generic sites offering generic advice. And the chicken coops for dummies is the exact type that foxes find so easy to get into.
These work better
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/l34nn3_k4ut/IMG_1895.jpg
Along with a strip of electric tape and the wire buried at the bottom. Oh and a couple of big, fox chasing, dogs is the best deterrent of all
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/l34nn3_k4ut/Dogs/IMG_1874.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/l34nn3_k4ut/Photo1851-1.jpg
or been into a chicken coup and killed the chickens, not for food but just for 'fun'.
This isn't strictly true. Foxes, in the wild, will chase a prey animal until it is captured, expending a lot of energy. If the fox has eaten it's fill of a large prey animal it will take the rest and hide it for eating at a later date. The reason foxes kill large numbers of chickens is that we do our best to secure them in one area at night, effectively making it very easy for the fox to kill them. It kills them all as that is nature, to kill what is there and hide the rest for when pickings are slim. The reason they only eat the heads is that brain meat is extremely high in energy and protein so it makes sense that the fox eats the parts that contain the highest nutritional value. The fox will then, one by one, remove the rest of the birds. Unfortunately for the fox, they don't normally get this far as there are a lot of birds to remove usually - the reason they appear to leave them is that they are disturbed during this process and abandon the kill.
Well if you all fill your fields with Fox Food what do you expect-grow turnips then you can complain about Rabbits.
Farming is always going to come into conflict with the environment. Its about time you learned to live with nature rather than trying to exterminate it :(
Well if you all fill your fields with Fox Food what do you expect-grow turnips then you can complain about Rabbits.
Farming is always going to come into conflict with the environment. Its about time you learned to live with nature rather than trying to exterminate it :(
so you think that farming/lambs etc can live hand in hand with things like foxes,how would that work?without farmers/crofters going bust,loosing profit etc to foxes and the like?
Early in his career, P. T. Barnum created an exhibit, entitled “The Happy Family,” consisting of a cage housing a lion, a tiger, a panther – and a baby lamb. The remarkable display earned Barnum unprecedented publicity and attendance figures. Some time after its opening, Barnum was asked about his plans for the happy family. “The display will become a permanent feature,” he declared, "if the supply of lambs holds out."
http://www.quotiki.com/quotes/13309
Well if you all fill your fields with Fox Food what do you expect-grow turnips then you can complain about Rabbits.
Farming is always going to come into conflict with the environment. Its about time you learned to live with nature rather than trying to exterminate it :(
What do suggest i put in my fields??. I put in turnips and have no trouble with rabbits so no complaining here.
Can you please explain how farming is in conflict with the enviroment?????
annemarie482
03-Apr-10, 20:38
Eh? I thought the whole second part of this thread was about that. The bit after whether we agree with fox hunting.
I made my decision years ago and don't have anything to do with meat production (nobody needs meat). However, I am not an evangelist and don't try to push my lifestyle onto anyone else.
If, after about 2000 years we still can't farm without coming into conflict with the environment it is sad. But so be it. Just don't try to pass meat production off as anything other than an environmentally damaging industry.
LOL!:lol::roll:
Eh? I thought the whole second part of this thread was about that. The bit after whether we agree with fox hunting.
I made my decision years ago and don't have anything to do with meat production (nobody needs meat). However, I am not an evangelist and don't try to push my lifestyle onto anyone else.
If, after about 2000 years we still can't farm without coming into conflict with the environment it is sad. But so be it. Just don't try to pass meat production off as anything other than an environmentally damaging industry.
Nobody needs meat. Nobody needs vegetables.
I made my decision years ago. I decided I could probably be vegetarian if it wasn't for one thing.....!
the fantastic fillet steak I treat myself to once a month, if I can afford it.
Ducati is being silly lol. :)
Good on you Ducati
I'm not a veggie though I think I could be, quite easily.
Not quite the point of this thread however.
Eh? I thought the whole second part of this thread was about that. The bit after whether we agree with fox hunting.
I made my decision years ago and don't have anything to do with meat production (nobody needs meat). However, I am not an evangelist and don't try to push my lifestyle onto anyone else.
If, after about 2000 years we still can't farm without coming into conflict with the environment it is sad. But so be it. Just don't try to pass meat production off as anything other than an environmentally damaging industry.
I will give you the opportunity of reaching a thousand.
I look around and see what the environment produces if left alone, it produces a lot of grass. Wonderful stuff, grows anywhere and everywhere, grows on it's own, if it gets eaten it just grows again.
Only one thing wrong with it, we can't eat it, we can't digest it, it is of no use to us.
Unless we get animals to turn it into something we can eat that is.
buggyracer
04-Apr-10, 01:06
I will give you the opportunity of reaching a thousand.
I look around and see what the environment produces if left alone, it produces a lot of grass. Wonderful stuff, grows anywhere and everywhere, grows on it's own, if it gets eaten it just grows again.
Only one thing wrong with it, we can't eat it, we can't digest it, it is of no use to us.
Unless we get animals to turn it into something we can eat that is.
AMEN :cool:
annemarie482
04-Apr-10, 09:48
Don't see the relevance but..go to a natural forest (There are a few small pockets dotted around Scotland) look on the floor. Thats what covered the whole of mainland UK, apart from a small area in Caithness funnily enough.
you bear grills?!
what are there secret areas of vegetables growing wild?
a hill of wild neeps?
patches of carrots and tatties?
random beetroot?
enough to feed britain anyway?
where would we be without farmers lol:lol::roll:
What do suggest i put in my fields??. I put in turnips and have no trouble with rabbits so no complaining here.
Can you please explain how farming is in conflict with the environment?????
Foxy, can I get a fresh neep for my clapshot when we next meet? And please Foxy, not one of those things called Swedes, a Neep has colour.
I agree with farmers and gamekeepers and the like controlling foxes, but not the Hoorah henrys and their horses and packs of dogs chasing an animal through the countryside.
Nothing wrong with a nice rare steak or a tender lamb chop....good owld Scots mince and tatties...mmmmmm comfort food.
Don't see the relevance but..go to a natural forest (There are a few small pockets dotted around Scotland) look on the floor. Thats what covered the whole of mainland UK, apart from a small area in Caithness funnily enough.
We can't eat wood either.
northener
04-Apr-10, 11:30
To provide enough non-meat food for all the population would require just as much farming effort and land as for meat production.
So the net effect upon the environment would be exactly the same: large swathes of land under agribusiness to provide food.
The forests would still have been cleared. The natural balance of the landscape would still have been altered to suit human habitation and use.
We can't eat wood either.
Well you can if you like, I was only illustrating that grass is not as universal as you think. Witness my front lawn :eek:
Some seem to have the idea I'm against farming, not so, that would be silly.
I only bring Veggies into the conversation occasionally because it winds people up.
What happened to the Veggie thread that someone started BTW? :confused
northener
04-Apr-10, 13:55
.....
What happened to the Veggie thread that someone started BTW? :confused
It starved to death....[lol]
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