What is a Scot?

[John Little]

Sorry Cattach – this is going to be another of those long ones.

I got told I was an Englishman on another thread, and it got me to thinking that while it is true, it is not quite as clear cut as all that, so I thought I’d just clear some air.

What is an Englishman? Someone who is born in England and speaks with an English accent- like me?

Or what is a Scot?

Is this a Scot?

On the mother’s side.
Middle name is Gordon to remind him of his mother’s surname. Grandfather Gordon served in the First World war in the Seaforth Highlanders. He was born in the Isle of Man – his parents having left Ayrshire about 1890 to seek a better life. They didnae find it.

Great Grandparents number Johnstones and Bells from the Kelso area.

On the father’s side.
Family originally comes from Roxburghshire. If you follow the B6357 out of Newcastleton towards Old Castleton you will find an old cemetery on the left as you go up onto the moors. It is full of Littles including six John Littles which is a sobering sight. It is also firmly in Scotland- has been since the dark ages. Lowland Scots I grant ye, and nothing to do with Highland aristocracy, but still Hibernian.

One of them left in the 1790s and went a few miles south where he married Mary and settled down to farm south of Carlisle- which is where my Dad’s family came from.

You see I do not think of myself as English or even Scottish - neither will do. I’m British and I like being British.

Such a mongrel.

But I tell you what- I might not like shortbread, wear a kilt or even toss cabers, but I am proud as a dog with two tails of my Scottish ancestry, and I’d stack my celtic DNA up against anybody’s. I have however an inordinate love of whiskey and bagpipes - could this be inherited?


So call me an Englishman if you like – the label means little to me.


I imagine there are quite a few on these boards who have a similar mix...

[The Drunken Duck]

Well my father was a Yorkshireman, but then we all have our crosses to bear. My mother was a Wicker and I was born in Wick so I am Scottish. Never see myself as anything other than Scottish and only refer to myself as British when I have to, although obviously I am, I just see myself as Scottish first.

I even have British (Scot) on my passport which earned me a long stay in a Police Station in Turkmenistan once as the Policemen had no idea what the Scot part meant and thought I was some kind of spy. I also have English mates who have lived in Scotland so long they see themselves as Jocks so I reckon the whole concept is pretty fluid to be honest.

[Metalattakk]

If a coo is born in a stable, it disna make it a horse. ;)

[ducati]

If a coo is born in a stable, it disna make it a horse. ;)

Do you know, that is one of the most profound things I have read on here.

What if a chicken is born in a shed?

I'm a quarter Scot (Cunninghame) and married a Scots lass. Lived in Scotland for more than 20 years. So I'm English right?

[davie]

Close, John Little - but no ceegar .

You are at best a Sassenuch or at worst an Englishman. Dinna worry aboot it - we can not all be God's chosen people.

[Metalattakk]

Do you know, that is one of the most profound things I have read on here.

What if a chicken is born in a shed?

Impossible. Chickens aren't born, they're hatched.

(Nice try though. ;))

[DeHaviLand]

I'm a quarter Scot (Cunninghame) and married a Scots lass. Lived in Scotland for more than 20 years. So I'm English right?

Not enough info. You could belong to any race in the world, but you're not Scottish ;)

[northener]

Going off at a tangent (but one I really like):

"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car".:Razz


Place of birth is probably the most common reference people use to decide 'who is what'. But personally, I'd say someone's attitude and actions make them what they are - not some accident of location at the end of a pregnancy.

I have a nephew who was born in Yorkshire and moved to Shetland aged a few months. As far as he's concerned - he's a Shetlander. No connection with England in his mind whatsoever.

[changilass]

I have 'made in Singapore' stamped on the bottom of my feet.

Does that mean I am plastic?

[ducati]

Going off at a tangent (but one I really like):

"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car".:Razz


Place of birth is probably the most common reference people use to decide 'who is what'. But personally, I'd say someone's attitude and actions make them what they are - not some accident of location at the end of a pregnancy.

I have a nephew who was born in Yorkshire and moved to Shetland aged a few months. As far as he's concerned - he's a Shetlander. No connection with England in his mind whatsoever.

Yep, Wife's sister moved to new England with 2 kids, had 4 more there, they are all American and nothing you can say will change their minds. (not that I have tried to). Of course mum is still Scots :confused

[Bazeye]

Not enough info. You could belong to any race in the world, but you're not Scottish ;)

Ive no doubt if your reply had been directed at, say for instance, someone that had been born in Bangladesh and moved to the UK 20 years ago, married a British woman and now held a valid UK passport you would have had accusations of being a racist, even if you did put a wink emoticon at the end. Why's that? Im not having a go at you btw, I was just wondering why that would be the case.

[ducati]

Not enough info. You could belong to any race in the world, but you're not Scottish ;)

Oops! Born in Manchesterford (of Shropshire and Manchester parents) :roll:

[DeHaviLand]

If you look at the original post Ducati said " So I'm English, right" However nowhere in his post did he say he was born in England.

Wondered how long it would take some eejit to bring racism into the thread :roll:

[ducati]

If you look at the original post Ducati said " So I'm English, right" However nowhere in his post did he say he was born in England.

Wondered how long it would take some eejit to bring racism into the thread :roll:

Isn't it great when someone gets offended on your behalf? [lol]

[rich]

The question lurking here is WHICH IS BEST? Scots or English? And WHY?

I have Hugenots on my mother's side. (Or as the Rev. Ian Paisley would put it "Hottentots")

So I cast my vote for being French. Now I know the Hugenots were not the jolliest of French folk - being of a somewhat religious (Calvinist) frame of mind but they were still a barrell of laughs compared to the Scots and even to the English.

I know some Orgers who are pedantically inclined will say I have not answered the question.

But let us not forget, Scots were mercenary soldiers in France for centuries and I am sure a test of their DNA would reveal a whole Gallic side of the Caledonian nation. Note GALLIC - not GAELIC so dont expect to learn anything at the Great Debate.

And note please that GALLIC shares a root (no pun intended) with GARLIC.
Garlic is a pungent, strong smelling bulb best eaten when swollen...

If I keep this up the Org police will close me down for sure

So Mes Amis - I rest my case!

[northener]

The question lurking here is WHICH IS BEST? Scots or English? And WHY?

I have Hugenots on my mother's side. (Or as the Rev. Ian Paisley would put it "Hottentots")

So I cast my vote for being French. Now I know the Hugenots were not the jolliest of French folk - being of a somewhat religious (Calvinist) frame of mind but they were still a barrell of laughs compared to the Scots and even to the English.

I know some Orgers who are pedantically inclined will say I have not answered the question.

But let us not forget, Scots were mercenary soldiers in France for centuries and I am sure a test of their DNA would reveal a whole Gallic side of the Caledonian nation. Note GALLIC - not GAELIC so dont expect to learn anything at the Great Debate.

And note please that GALLIC shares a root (no pun intended) with GARLIC.
Garlic is a pungent, strong smelling bulb best eaten when swollen...

If I keep this up the Org police will close me down for sure

So Mes Amis - I rest my case!

A little early to be drinking over there isn't it, Rich?

You been swigging Calvados with those pesky French Canadians?

[brandy]

well i am american, and southern at that.. *G* hubby is a wicker thru and thru... kids were born in inverness so what does that make all of us *G* as far as im concerned a family..

[Gronnuck]

:roll: A Scot is anyone who wants to be fur we're all Jock Tamson's Bairns.

[Phill]

More importantly, how many generations does it take before the 'Incomer' tag is lost?

[John Little]

Well I think Northerner has it - it's part attitude; I was brought up partly in Scotland as well. I think I am an associate member of the Scottish Diaspora, but full membership will elude me.

I'm cool with that.

[davie]

Until a few years ago I thought I was definitely 100% pure born unadulterated Caithness Scot.

Then I started doing the fambly tree, one side is the genuine 48carat article right back to Latheron 1700 or so and probably before that.
Lo and behold, on the other side in the early 1800's there appears a lowlife Northumbrian sheep herder !!!. Hard to accept that I must be some kind of mongrel with a tinge of Sassenuch blood .

That fairly put my gas at a peep I can tell you

[canuck]

I'd surely pass the DNA test, even have the 'right' name, but my accent is all wrong.

[annemarie482]

i mind being told i wisna a keisser unless i had 2 sets o grandparents in the cemetery!:lol: (which i don't!)


my mums a geordie, my dad a glasweigan
i was born in thurso
lived in keiss from birth till last september.

i call my self a keisser!
and a proud scot at that!

[Beat Bug]

Paternal Grandparents thoroughbred Scots. Father born in Dublin. Maternal Grandparents thoroughbred Irish. I was born in London, grew up in Ireland. Went to live in London aged 20. Now live in Caithness. As far as I'm concerned I'm half Scottish, half Irish. But I was once told we take our nationality from our father. That would make me Scottish! But does it really matter? There is really only one race, the Human race!

[Tubthumper]

This Peter Dow chap would seem to be the classic thoroughbred Scot. As far as the human race is concerned though, I'm sure he'd get disqualified.

[davie]

This Peter Dow chap would seem to be the classic thoroughbred Scot. As far as the human race is concerned though, I'm sure he'd get disqualified.

Ever the diplomat - Mr/Ms/Mrs/Miss Thubtumper.

[ss.sv650]

:roll: A Scot is anyone who wants to be fur we're all Jock Tamson's Bairns.

well said my OH escaped england at 16 most of his family are scottish he married one and is a mad scotland rugby fan and has been for over 20 years so as far as i am concerned he can class himself as a honaery scott ( tried for the full blood transfusion but the NHS wont have any of it!!)

[bluechesse]

Who really cares?
If you need to ask this question, or your not really sure if you are a Scot or not, then in all honestly, your probably something else all together.

But, Welsh, English, Chinese, Giraffe, Martian, Celtic Supporter, who really cares what your are? As long as your not here illegaly, not claiming money your not entitled to, and not doing any harm to any one else, does it really matter a monkeys where you pigeon hole your self?

BUT, If you still aint sure, and you absolutley must find out whether or not your a Scot, I recomend you do the following:
1. Drink 3/4 of a bottle of Old Pultney in under an an hour and a half with out passing out.
2. Nip down to the chippy (stagger, dont drive!) and order a double haddy supper. Eat it all out side the chippy with your fingers with out burning your hands or mouth, and absolutley NO throwing up!
3. Stagger home and go to bed. Wake up in the morning with a thumping sore head, little memory of the night before, and the urger to shave your tounge.
4. Have a shower. Swallow 2 x neurofen with a tin of Irn Bru. Feel much better.
5. Have a Johnstons Pie and another tin of Irn Bru about 10am. Feel absolutley perfect and ready for Saturday nights festivities.

If you cant complete all 5 activities successfully and exactly as stated, your probably not a Scot.

If you failed at step 1 due to a total inability to drink Old Pultney, your probably English.
If you fancied leaks and seaweed instead of a haddy supper at step 2, your could well be Welsh.
If you couldn't make it home at step 3, no matter how hard you staggered, theres a good chance your either Chinese or Matrian.
If you didnt bother with the shower in step 4, your definately a Celtic fan.
If you didnt fancy a Johnstons pie at step 5, but preffered some leaves from a high up tree, in all probability your a giraffe.
If you went through all this to wake up and find it's Tuesday, what you are is an alcy. Lay off the whiskey, a nice tonic wine is the ticket for you.

Hope this helps.;)

[davie]

I can't do the 3/4 bottle - when its open I have to finish it !. The rest is easy peasy. So what does that make me (dont say I is a Weeker cos that is a slur on my character)

[northener]

Who really cares?
If you need to ask this question, or your not really sure if you are a Scot or not, then in all honestly, your probably something else all together.

But, Welsh, English, Chinese, Giraffe, Martian, Celtic Supporter, who really cares what your are? As long as your not here illegaly, not claiming money your not entitled to, and not doing any harm to any one else, does it really matter a monkeys where you pigeon hole your self?

BUT, If you still aint sure, and you absolutley must find out whether or not your a Scot, I recomend you do the following:
1. Drink 3/4 of a bottle of Old Pultney in under an an hour and a half with out passing out.
2. Nip down to the chippy (stagger, dont drive!) and order a double haddy supper. Eat it all out side the chippy with your fingers with out burning your hands or mouth, and absolutley NO throwing up!
3. Stagger home and go to bed. Wake up in the morning with a thumping sore head, little memory of the night before, and the urger to shave your tounge.
4. Have a shower. Swallow 2 x neurofen with a tin of Irn Bru. Feel much better.
5. Have a Johnstons Pie and another tin of Irn Bru about 10am. Feel absolutley perfect and ready for Saturday nights festivities.

If you cant complete all 5 activities successfully and exactly as stated, your probably not a Scot.

If you failed at step 1 due to a total inability to drink Old Pultney, your probably English.
If you fancied leaks and seaweed instead of a haddy supper at step 2, your could well be Welsh.
If you couldn't make it home at step 3, no matter how hard you staggered, theres a good chance your either Chinese or Matrian.
If you didnt bother with the shower in step 4, your definately a Celtic fan.
If you didnt fancy a Johnstons pie at step 5, but preffered some leaves from a high up tree, in all probability your a giraffe.
If you went through all this to wake up and find it's Tuesday, what you are is an alcy. Lay off the whiskey, a nice tonic wine is the ticket for you.

Hope this helps.;)

My own personal experiences tell me that using your guide, the whole of Her Majesties Royal Navy are definitely Scots.

You've just described a pretty dull run ashore....:Razz

[Phill]

Who really cares?
If you need to ask this question, or your not really sure if you are a Scot or not, then in all honestly, your probably something else all together.

But, Welsh, English, Chinese, Giraffe, Martian, Celtic Supporter, who really cares what your are? As long as your not here illegaly, not claiming money your not entitled to, and not doing any harm to any one else, does it really matter a monkeys where you pigeon hole your self?

BUT, If you still aint sure, and you absolutley must find out whether or not your a Scot, I recomend you do the following:
1. Drink 3/4 of a bottle of Old Pultney in under an an hour and a half with out passing out.
2. Nip down to the chippy (stagger, dont drive!) and order a double haddy supper. Eat it all out side the chippy with your fingers with out burning your hands or mouth, and absolutley NO throwing up!
3. Stagger home and go to bed. Wake up in the morning with a thumping sore head, little memory of the night before, and the urger to shave your tounge.
4. Have a shower. Swallow 2 x neurofen with a tin of Irn Bru. Feel much better.
5. Have a Johnstons Pie and another tin of Irn Bru about 10am. Feel absolutley perfect and ready for Saturday nights festivities.

If you cant complete all 5 activities successfully and exactly as stated, your probably not a Scot.

If you failed at step 1 due to a total inability to drink Old Pultney, your probably English.
If you fancied leaks and seaweed instead of a haddy supper at step 2, your could well be Welsh.
If you couldn't make it home at step 3, no matter how hard you staggered, theres a good chance your either Chinese or Matrian.
If you didnt bother with the shower in step 4, your definately a Celtic fan.
If you didnt fancy a Johnstons pie at step 5, but preffered some leaves from a high up tree, in all probability your a giraffe.
If you went through all this to wake up and find it's Tuesday, what you are is an alcy. Lay off the whiskey, a nice tonic wine is the ticket for you.

Hope this helps.;)

What's the Neurofen all about are ye soft?

[cuddlepop]

Can you still call yourself a Scot if you cant stand bag pipe "racket".?:Razz

The tourist just love all this and no matter what "touriste" shop you go onto the now its all "hookie,tuekey music" does my nut in.:Razz

[davie]

A Skianach not liking the pipes ?.
i am speechless !. In my experience anyone making a statement like that would be excommunicated or transported South of the border or hung drawn & quartered, or boiled in oil, or hung off the Skye Bridge on a clothes rope.
Pipe music to me is quite special, joking apart.

[John Little]

Me too - love the pipes. I remember watching Thurso pipe band marching up and down when I was a kid. And a group of tourists standing under the trees in the square...
No locals stood under the trees when the band went past.

You should have heard them scream when the guano came down...

[bluechesse]

What's the Neurofen all about are ye soft?

Neurofen is to dull the toothache the irn bru causes........

[bluechesse]

I can't do the 3/4 bottle - when its open I have to finish it !. The rest is easy peasy. So what does that make me (dont say I is a Weeker cos that is a slur on my character)

Erm...... Greedy haha![lol]

[davie]

Neurofen is to dull the toothache the irn bru causes........

A true Scot would get the pliers and pull oot the offending toof - Neurofen is for Jessies.

[bluechesse]

. Must be some mongrel in me after all.......

[cuddlepop]

A Skianach not liking the pipes ?.
i am speechless !. In my experience anyone making a statement like that would be excommunicated or transported South of the border or hung drawn & quartered, or boiled in oil, or hung off the Skye Bridge on a clothes rope.
Pipe music to me is quite special, joking apart.

It must be my fathers ancestoral french genes influencing my taste it music because I seriously find that kind of music "head splitting".:lol:

[veritas]

Its what you feel in your heart and soul

Who do you support when Scotland Play England at any sport regardless of where you are born

Rod Stewart for instance in English by birth but Scots in ancestry and in Heart and Soul. He will always Support Scotland against England even though he ahs an English accent

It is simples yah

[John Little]

Not ifs you is not fonds of football...

[veritas]

Not ifs you is not fonds of football...

Doesnt matter what sport or event it is Football, Rugby, Commonwealth Games, Tennis etc etc if you support the Scottish guy or girl against all other then your heart and soul is Scottish try the test and see !!

[John Little]

Errr - trouble is that I'm a bit of a weirdo - I don't do sport, don't watch it and don't really care about it in any way shape or form. Never have since leaving school.

And I don't do flag waving or loyalty to groups wearing colours or stuff.

If push comes to shove I would support the person I liked best and I would not give a damn where they came from.

BTW - I used to have a Scottish accent - if you are in Primary school in Thurso you do tend to. But the English kids teased it out of me when we moved south.

[veritas]

Then you have answered your question your not Scottish !

[Tubthumper]

If you're mad for Scottish football
Even though it's pretty poor
If your team in europe playing
In first round gets shown the door
If the players look like carthorses
The pitch is like a field
And the captain sticks the V's up
So his playing fate is sealed

You're a Jock, You're a Jock
You go to weddings and get drunk and wear a frock
Your team's all foreign, all gone the morn'
And the national squad get beat each year by Iceland, You're a Jock

If you're mad for flag supporting
But can hardly lift the pole
If on junk your kids are living
And you're scrounging off the dole
If your schooldays were suspended
Cos you couldn't take the stress
And you've got a social worker
To help you sort out your mess

You're a ned, You're a ned
In a basball cap and tracksuit, You're a ned
You like the MadDog and underage snog
And a Corsa with dropped-down suspension, You're a Ned

If your diet's pretty dodgy
Live on deep fried crap and pie
Smoke like lum and drink like drainpipe
Early days you're going to die
You've got furring of the arteries
Your only exercise
Is going down the bingo
For a chance to win a prize

You're a Chav, You've a Chav
Opportunities? You flushed them down the lav
You cannae read right, But Scottish Gov might
Give you all sorts of help to live the life you want to have

Every night you're on the bevvy
Thunderbird and Buckfast too
Join a gang and run frae polis
Think yer hard with schemie crew
Though you like your reek and jellies
It's the bottle thats your fave
And a jumping on bystander's head
Is all the buzz you crave

You're a Ned, You're a Ned
You've never worked, you never will, you stay in bed
You've got an ASBO, it makes the burds glow
And the Burberry cap just shows the world that you're a Ned

[porshiepoo]

Until moving here I have never really thought of myself as anything but British. Being English just meant I was born there, I never made a distinction between England, Scotland or Wales. I was born in the UK making me British. I love the diversity of the UK and I love Bagpipes as much as English countryside as much as 'Danny Boy'.
Since moving here I've found that it's considered 'normal' to make the distinction between English, Scottish etc.
I have no problem stating that as I was born in England to English parents, English grandparents and so on and so on, I'm classed as English and if I had to make the distinction then I would be proud to say I'm English.

What makes a Scot? I couldn't tell you to be honest but I'm guessing the same thing that makes an Englishman consider themselves English as opposed to British.

[John Little]

That is brilliant- you need to write a book Tub person- totally wicked.

So Veritas - let's get it straight then.
To be a Scot a love of Sport is compulsory.

That settles it then - I definitely have no claims at all.



I'll take the hit
I'm just a Brit
My veins are full of mongrel s***

With my assorted pedigree
all true Hibernians must agree
T'is just too sassenacheee.

Farewell ye banks o' bonny Doon
Ne'er more shall I see Thirza toon
My credentials are so out of order
I'd best stay well south o't Border


While Alex Salmond rules the land
This Gordon will not cry 'By Dand!'
My pretensions have been rumbled
My Aenglish pride full well humbled
To Caithness we'll be strangers
I've failed the test - of Celtic V Rangers.

[ducati]

Oh no wee John
You must not run
Fea the bonny, bonny banks of Loch Lomand

For you we cry
Our eyes won’t dry
‘till you return ta the land of mist and heather

for English we
have great need
to redress the balance in terms of numbers :eek:

so on ye go
along that road
high, till ye get back to Thirza Toon

Criket! that makes Tub's look good!

[northener]

Then you have answered your question your not Scottish !

Nah, you're a Scotsman with a brain.;)

[Saveman]

We're all human. Natives of planet Earth. What's the point in making any other distinction, it only serves to seperate us.

[davie]

Until moving here I have never really thought of myself as anything but British. Being English just meant I was born there, I never made a distinction between England, Scotland or Wales. I was born in the UK making me British. I love the diversity of the UK and I love Bagpipes as much as English countryside as much as 'Danny Boy'.
Since moving here I've found that it's considered 'normal' to make the distinction between English, Scottish etc.
I have no problem stating that as I was born in England to English parents, English grandparents and so on and so on, I'm classed as English and if I had to make the distinction then I would be proud to say I'm English.

What makes a Scot? I couldn't tell you to be honest but I'm guessing the same thing that makes an Englishman consider themselves English as opposed to British.

An excellent post Porshie - and very well put

[northener]

I actually had some numpty ask why I (as an English protestant) was supporting Celtic.

And the reason this towering intellect had arrived at this incisive conclusion?

I'd painted my garage door and fence green and white.

I'm not kidding - and neither was he.:(

[Cattach]

Sorry Cattach – this is going to be another of those long ones.

I got told I was an Englishman on another thread, and it got me to thinking that while it is true, it is not quite as clear cut as all that, so I thought I’d just clear some air.

What is an Englishman? Someone who is born in England and speaks with an English accent- like me?

Or what is a Scot?

Is this a Scot?

On the mother’s side.
Middle name is Gordon to remind him of his mother’s surname. Grandfather Gordon served in the First World war in the Seaforth Highlanders. He was born in the Isle of Man – his parents having left Ayrshire about 1890 to seek a better life. They didnae find it.

Great Grandparents number Johnstones and Bells from the Kelso area.

On the father’s side.
Family originally comes from Roxburghshire. If you follow the B6357 out of Newcastleton towards Old Castleton you will find an old cemetery on the left as you go up onto the moors. It is full of Littles including six John Littles which is a sobering sight. It is also firmly in Scotland- has been since the dark ages. Lowland Scots I grant ye, and nothing to do with Highland aristocracy, but still Hibernian.

One of them left in the 1790s and went a few miles south where he married Mary and settled down to farm south of Carlisle- which is where my Dad’s family came from.

You see I do not think of myself as English or even Scottish - neither will do. I’m British and I like being British.

Such a mongrel.

But I tell you what- I might not like shortbread, wear a kilt or even toss cabers, but I am proud as a dog with two tails of my Scottish ancestry, and I’d stack my celtic DNA up against anybody’s. I have however an inordinate love of whiskey and bagpipes - could this be inherited?


So call me an Englishman if you like – the label means little to me.


I imagine there are quite a few on these boards who have a similar mix...

I did not bother reading the post - answer is too obvious. A Scot is someone born and bred in Scotland. Colour or racial background of prior generations does not matter. Some will claim they are English because they have English parents but born and bread in Scotland - certainly Scottish.