View Full Version : Bullying on the org
Why can't someone post to this forum without being subjected to personal abuse?
This morning I look in and find personal abusive remarks being made about me on a thread I don't even contribute to yet again.
I like the org and most of the people who post here but when I'm reading personal insults every day it makes me angry and frustrated because I know that if I respond with the same I will be reported and suspended again. This makes reading the org less than a pleasant experience for me.
Now the odd jibe at someone during the course of a debate is part of forum life but that isn't what this is, this is constant harassment.
Take a chill pill Fred and grow a thick skin. Its only a forum. The cyber bullies should be pitied as its probably the only thing they "get off" on.
Take a chill pill Fred and grow a thick skin. Its only a forum. The cyber bullies should be pitied as its probably the only thing they "get off" on.
I think it's important Bazeye, I recently returned to the forum after not posting for a while and noticed that many of the users who used to stick to the facts of a discussion and were a pleasure to debate with had left while those who always resort to personal abuse are still here.
Oh well at least you are getting talked about:)
You made an impact on some people.....:eek:
I think it's important Bazeye, I recently returned to the forum after not posting for a while and noticed that many of the users who used to stick to the facts of a discussion and were a pleasure to debate with had left while those who always resort to personal abuse are still here.
Probably because they lead sad and empty lives, Fred. Bullies are cowards and this applies just as much in the virtual world as in the real one. It is only a forum but it turns nasty when people gang up on particular posters. It's happened to some of the unlikeliest people who have mostly left as a result. :(
Ignore the bullies if you can and don't rise to their bait... or as you rightly say it will be you, not them, that will get suspended, which is exactly what they want to happen. It's been the case over and over again, when folk are obliged to defend themselves endlessly and eventually get so exasperated they become enraged, go OTT and then the infractions stick to them.
This makes the bullies feel big and powerful. [disgust]
But do you really want to engage with people who don't want a real debate anyway? As you say, most of the good debaters are long gone.
I don't agree with much of what you post, but that ain't the point. I'm pleased to see you posting again. :)
Well you started the thread soo...
I find the tone of many of your posts extremely insulting and derisory. So I guess if others feel the same there might be a reason people have a go at you.
On many occasions you and another on here have "ganged up" on me.
But I don't go shouting bully do I?:roll:
Fred,bullying takes many different forms and sometimes people are accused of bullying just for simply standing up for their own beliefs :roll: yes it does go on on here,and sadly much doesnt seem to be done about it,but I guess its very much a case of ignoring it,although that is very hard to do soemtimes! I myself not long agao got accused of being a bully on here,simply for standing by what I had said and refusing to change my thoughts on a subject to the OP opinion of the situation,it annoyed me that I could be called a bully for standing by my own opinion but there was no way I was changing my views just to make others happy,I paid for it in the end as I was made an "outcast"by quite a few on this forum but at least i didnt compromise my values so I still hold my head high and let the others get on with it,it would be a boring world if we all agreed on eveything,but at the same time its sad that people have to resort to childish behaviour to win a point x
Seems to be plenty of trolling going on and nothing ever done about it. Fred gets jumped on whenever he posts. In fact the poor bloke canot express an opinion with out getting jumped on. Its not just Fred tho is it!! I dont see why all the off topic trolling is left on the boards as it soon disrupts a thread leaving a wooly mess that others have to try and post around if they want to continue the original conversation. Its even more suprising to see cross posted off topic insults and attacks appearing draging the the threads further off topic. Its stated in the forum rules that trolling is not on but a lot of posters are reveling in it, claiming it is their right (to spoil things for every one). Its boring, at times vendictive and i am sure puts a lot of folks off contributing to threads that are just begining to develop when this egotistical polution muddies the water. At the end of the day its down to the mods to police but it seems the mods lack the backbone to take on the problem which is quite sad thing for what is suposed to be a comunity forum. It certainly puts me off contributing to some threads. I know i can opt not to see certain threads but why should i !! Its not me thats draging threads i am intrested in down is it! :mad::mad::mad:
telfordstar
20-Mar-10, 11:56
Sometimes I feel that folk on here ( not saying you fred) post certain remarks/posts to get folks back up. If this is done a few times then little wonder folk swipe back. Ive a few who if i see them posting on a thread i just avoid the topic through wanting to have a good swipe at them. Its only a forum but if you insist on winding folk up be prepared for the backlash.
Go and boil your head
So the above post is an acceptable form of intelligent debate
Have you not heard of head boiling? It's very relaxing...
But the serious answer is no.
So the above post is an acceptable form of intelligent debate
No, and neither was the post it responded to. This is Fred's thread so lets not highjack it this early?
changilass
20-Mar-10, 12:14
This is not Fred's thread.
It is a thread on the org and therfore open to anyone to post on it.
If the same folks are constantly winding you up, then put them on ignore, saves a lot of hassle.
arana negra
20-Mar-10, 12:22
This is not Fred's thread.
It is a thread on the org and therfore open to anyone to post on it.
If the same folks are constantly winding you up, then put them on ignore, saves a lot of hassle.
I have not been around for ages so have no idea what is going on. The above quote is true and very good advice. Having been a moderator on another forum it is really is best to ignore those that get to you, then the whole forum does get into bad feeling and nasty comments all over the place.
Just my opinion as a member on here.
This is not Fred's thread.
It is a thread on the org and therfore open to anyone to post on it.
If the same folks are constantly winding you up, then put them on ignore, saves a lot of hassle.
Exactly chang
simple soloution.....
log in
Click "User CP"
Then look down left hand side.....u may need to scroll down....
Click "edit ignore list"
Add in the people u detest, hate, wanna kill, despise, sick of.....whatever your thoughts are.
Once thats done save changes and voila....u will never see there posts again..........simples!
Exactly chang
simple soloution.....
log in
Click "User CP"
Then look down left hand side.....u may need to scroll down....
Click "edit ignore list"
Add in the people u detest, hate, wanna kill, despise, sick of.....whatever your thoughts are.
Once thats done save changes and voila....u will never see there posts again..........simples!
Trouble is, if I did that I'd be talking to myself [lol] Hello.. Hello..?
^^^^^
http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/data/media/2/LOL.jpg
"Suspended again" - what for?.
Reading through your posts it's difficult to see why you are so offended by this perceived 'bullying' An initial sample quote from you on the Nato Thread: "They found that the missile wasn't faulty, it was aimed at the family, carry on as normal lads", insinuating it was deliberate.
We may not agree with the British being in Afghanistan, but personal jibes such as these are offensive - especially when a fair percentage of Orgers have loved ones out there..
No doubt - as has already been mentioned - folk have not ploughed through the Thread 'NATO Strike..' and so it is reasonably fair to give an insight into the background., I hasten to add this is not bullying to mention a few of your comments.
Which with all due respect are answered robustly , which unfortunately you have possibly misconstrued as harassment.
"Grow up."
"You just don't listen do you?"
"You just don't get it do you?"
"You seem to be suffering from delusions of grandeur."
"Oh I enjoy intelligent debate, if I can find someone intelligent to debate with".
"Strange how people who can't handle the truth revert to a mental age of twelve."
"Now have you got enough intelligence to open your eyes and see the world as it really is"
"The we is the people of Britain, wasn't that obvious? I'll try and use shorter words for you."
"The only reason people like berkisman try to ridicule it is because it makes it too easy for people to show they're talking out of their backsides"
"I am anti torture, anti paedophiles, anti the killing of innocent civilians especially women and children. But I think those who are in favour of these things should really present their arguments rather than just trying to shout me down with personal abuse."
Forceful and vigorous replies are perfectly acceptable; Anfield (with whom I have been at loggerheads) and Stavro regularly have a go - with mainly well thought out argument - and they get it back!.
I do post thought-provoking threads - judging by PM's and rep points - but in the thread to which I am alluding, the deeply entrenched attitudes - on all sides - brings the Irresistible force paradox into play, and I've eased off.
Please take it generally Fred, really, it's not a personal attack
The Drunken Duck
20-Mar-10, 13:50
Blimey, what a whining big girls blouse.
Fred got a dig from me on one subject but he also got rep from me for another. Both were deserved. Fred sets himself up as the font of all knowledge and then cries like a spanked step child when he gets called on it. He claims to want to debate but I have tried that and found that even if you have personal experience and try to add to the debate if it doesnt fit in with what Fred thinks it is either ignored and/or ridiculed. It doesnt matter what you say Fred is always right and if you refuse to accept his point of view then you may as well save the bandwidth and ignore him.
Fred got held to his own words on a couple of subjects and got owned. He was quite happy lecturing everyone else until he got challenged and shown up. Now the dummy is is on an even larger trajectory and he is claiming he is being bullied. Met a few people with that view of life, they will happily trot among lecturing, insinuating and insulting (as Fred does) but the minute you call them on it they start bleating and play the victim.
If Fred said something that I agreed with I would agree, If he posts something I think is worth rep he will get it. Just like his constant stating that the Forces run around killing civilians got a response he didnt like.
Man up and deal with it.
I used to react to it to be honest......now i just [lol] at the people looking for a reaction! I would just ignore it buddy
I must admit I now make use of "ignore" quite a lot,something I never used to use,but then I realised that life is too short to allow faceless people annoy or upset you,so ignore helps me to keep things quiet x
I don't always agree with what Fred says but he doesn't (as far as I have seen) resort to personal insults and childish retorts like many of his opponents do. Seems to have got a lot worse recently. If you don't agree with the viewpoint of a certain select view you seem to be bullied and the mods/admins do little about it.
I would like a mods input on this. I have seen a few threads started with personally attacking Fred and it seems like they have been deleted but the perpetuators get away with it.
As people have said it is blatant trolling.
Some people also say some of the stuff Fred etc post is trolling but normally it is either a reasonable point or a start to a debate. I have not seen them lower themselves to personal insults.
I don't always agree with what Fred says but he doesn't (as far as I have seen) resort to personal insults and childish retorts like many of his opponents do. Seems to have got a lot worse recently. If you don't agree with the viewpoint of a certain select view you seem to be bullied and the mods/admins do little about it.
I would like a mods input on this. I have seen a few threads started with personally attacking Fred and it seems like they have been deleted but the perpetuators get away with it.
As people have said it is blatant trolling.
Some people also say some of the stuff Fred etc post is trolling but normally it is either a reasonable point or a start to a debate. I have not seen them lower themselves to personal insults.
mods/admin and trolling should be in the same sentence[lol]
I do agree with you though!
I must admit I now make use of "ignore" quite a lot,something I never used to use,but then I realised that life is too short to allow faceless people annoy or upset you,so ignore helps me to keep things quiet x
Me too Thumps...otherwise I'd be long gone! ;)
No other forum I belong to has a 'bad rep' facility that anyone can use for any reason - or indeed no reason. Now how can I give the Org rep system bad rep?
:lol:
Now I fear I've strayed onto another thread.....
Me too Thumps...otherwise I'd be long gone! ;)
No other forum I belong to has a 'bad rep' facility that anyone can use for any reason - or indeed no reason. Now how can I give the Org rep system bad rep? :lol:
Insult a moderator....:eek: Let me know how you get on lol
Me too Thumps...otherwise I'd be long gone! ;)
No other forum I belong to has a 'bad rep' facility that anyone can use for any reason - or indeed no reason. Now how can I give the Org rep system bad rep?
:lol:
Now I fear I've strayed onto another thread.....
Wise words there Angela,and yes I agree with you,I too have been onother forums where there is no rep system and have hardly ever seen any bullying etc go on on them,perhaps its just a different type of poster on those though.Maybe if instead of just showing our good reps it should show bad reps,good reps and infractions then we would maybe think twice about doing things x
changilass
20-Mar-10, 14:42
If you don't agree with the viewpoint of a certain select view you seem to be bullied and the mods/admins do little about it.
I would like a mods input on this. I have seen a few threads started with personally attacking Fred and it seems like they have been deleted but the perpetuators get away with it.
As people have said it is blatant trolling.
As infractions are private, what makes you think that the posts were simply removed and that was the end of it?
As infractions are private, what makes you think that the posts were simply removed and that was the end of it?
The fact that the same users have done it several times in a short period of time and have never been suspended is what I was basing it on.
changilass
20-Mar-10, 14:50
Whatever happened to warnings and infractions?
Do we really need to go straight for suspension every time?
Who decided that every thread involving Fred was bullying?
A lot of times its a case of you reap what you sow IMHO
The org seems to be a place for all the self-righteous and sarcastic people out there to get on their pedestal and talk down to others, when they don't have the backbone to do it in the real world. Some of the attitudes of posters on here just reflects on how full of their own importance they are. Instead of light-hearted banter or healthy debate on this forum, it is instead most often a case of someone starting a thread, then being attacked with nit-picking, childish name-calling and just down-right rude and nasty comments.
Whatever happened to warnings and infractions?
Do we really need to go straight for suspension every time?
Who decided that every thread involving Fred was bullying?
A lot of times its a case of you reap what you sow IMHO
You obviously misread my use of the word "several". No we don't need to go straight to suspension straight away, that would be ridiculous. But there are one or two who go out of there way,on a frequent basis, to bully certain members. Ie the ones that don't agree with their views.
"Suspended again" - what for?.
Reading through your posts it's difficult to see why you are so offended by this perceived 'bullying' An initial sample quote from you on the Nato Thread: "They found that the missile wasn't faulty, it was aimed at the family, carry on as normal lads", insinuating it was deliberate.
First of my statement was true, the missile in question was withdrawn from use pending an investigation, the investigation did find that the missile had not been faulty and the missile was put back into use.
Secondly the remark was not personal, I did not accuse you or anyone else on this forum of firing the missile.
Thirdly I think I made it clear that I was not talking about the things said in debate though they can go too far too, I'm talking about being insulted in debates I have not participated in, being hounded, persecuted.
I too would like the option of only reading the threads which interest me but when I never know in which thread I am going to be insulted next it doesn't leave me much option.
changilass
20-Mar-10, 15:02
I suppose it would depend on just who was defining of bullying?
Some call it banter some call it bullying.
I think certain folks do protest too much.
Its a forum, it aint real life, put them on ignore, then they can't bully you - easy.
Insult a moderator....:eek: Let me know how you get on lol
I did in 2007 and got 12 infraction points!
Boozeburglar
20-Mar-10, 15:39
Why can't someone post to this forum without being subjected to personal abuse?
This morning I look in and find personal abusive remarks being made about me on a thread I don't even contribute to yet again.
Remember it is only an internet message board.
It is not actually personal as such.
Also, remember that old saying, "If you can't take it . . .".
Ask yourself whether you have ever resorted to personal insults.
As far as the concept of 'bullying'; it takes many forms.
I would be hesistant to accuse anyone of such a thing, I would examine closely the possibility that I myself might be similarly accused before I began down the road of accusing everyone else.
Insult a moderator....:eek: Let me know how you get on lol
i did too, by accident. i didna get let off too lightly either!!
turns oot 'e person that i insulted is actually a really cool person - il lek her anyway ;)
I did in 2007 and got 12 infraction points!
Holy smoke!!!
i did too, by accident. i didna get let off too lightly either!!
turns oot 'e person that i insulted is actually a really cool person - il lek her anyway ;)
did you get a wee ban?[lol]
ShelleyCowie
20-Mar-10, 16:34
Remember it is only an internet message board.
It is not actually personal as such.
Also, remember that old saying, "If you can't take it . . .".
Ask yourself whether you have ever resorted to personal insults.
As far as the concept of 'bullying'; it takes many forms.
I would be hesistant to accuse anyone of such a thing, I would examine closely the possibility that I myself might be similarly accused before I began down the road of accusing everyone else.
I agree with you! And i thought exactly the same "If you cant take it dont give it"
After also reading Berkismans post with all of what Fred has also said well im sorry Fred but those comments arent the nicest.
I have nothing against you, i have nothing against anyone. Any orgers i have met have been lovely. And thats even including e 2 pervs Mik & Bob. ;)
Fred, just relax. Its all typing. I let the orgers rip the mikey out of me this week about my thongs. Its got to be light hearted fun!
This place needs more fun!!!!!!!! [lol]
I agree with you! And i thought exactly the same "If you cant take it dont give it"
After also reading Berkismans post with all of what Fred has also said well im sorry Fred but those comments arent the nicest.
I have nothing against you, i have nothing against anyone. Any orgers i have met have been lovely. And thats even including e 2 pervs Mik & Bob. ;)
Fred, just relax. Its all typing. I let the orgers rip the mikey out of me this week about my thongs. Its got to be light hearted fun!
This place needs more fun!!!!!!!! [lol]
I ain't Berkisman! I'm Bekisman (Bekis Husband) - I only put that on my earlier posts as it was as Fred wrote it. but I don't mind ShellyBain - honest! - you're right of course we need a bit of light here ;)
I ain't Berkisman! I'm Bekisman (Bekis Husband) - I only put that on my earlier posts as it was as Fred wrote it. but I don't mind ShellyBain - honest! - you're right of course we need a bit of light here ;)
Mebbe Shelly is just doing a bit of clever word play man is berk :Razz
Mebbe Shelly is just doing a bit of clever word play man is berk :Razz
oh, I get it now Phill!
I ain't Berkisman! I'm Bekisman (Bekis Husband) - I only put that on my earlier posts as it was as Fred wrote it. but I don't mind ShellyBain - honest! - you're right of course we need a bit of light here ;)
It's an easy mistake to make, Berk and Berkis are common names in some parts, I always thought it was Berkisman.
ShelleyCowie
20-Mar-10, 17:44
im sorry bekisman! My mistake! :)
People still spell my name wrong.....eh metalattakk ;) If i have spelt that wrong it really wasnt intentional!! lol.
Who farted? [lol]
mike.mckenzie
20-Mar-10, 17:57
Taking offence to someone else's statements does not constitute bullying. By definition, bullying is someone exploiting a position of superiority at the expense of the victim. I hardly think this forum is somewhere that provides a base for such practices, its virtual, what is there to gain?
I would say what others have said, if you don't like certain posters, ignore them. If you don't like the responses to your posts on an internet forum, don't post them. People don't have to agree with you.
im sorry bekisman! My mistake! :)
People still spell my name wrong.....eh metalattakk ;) If i have spelt that wrong it really wasnt intentional!! lol.
Who farted? [lol]
No Probs ShellyBain - Fred initially misquoted it and I was just reproducing it in #18 above - I accept it in good humour..
Taking offence to someone else's statements does not constitute bullying. By definition, bullying is someone exploiting a position of superiority at the expense of the victim. I hardly think this forum is somewhere that provides a base for such practices, its virtual, what is there to gain?
I would say what others have said, if you don't like certain posters, ignore them. If you don't like the responses to your posts on an internet forum, don't post them. People don't have to agree with you.
Hi Mike.mckenzie, bit different now than when you posted this: "I dunno, I think this is the most polite, well behaved and friendly forum I have ever been on". in Sep 08!. ;)
Metalattakk
20-Mar-10, 18:14
People still spell my name wrong.....eh metalattakk ;) If i have spelt that wrong it really wasnt intentional!! lol.
Spot on Shelley, except for a capital 'm'. ;)
:D
ShelleyCowie
20-Mar-10, 18:32
No Probs ShellyBain - Fred initially misquoted it and I was just reproducing it in #18 above - I accept it in good humour..
yeah i know. Spelling isnt a huge issue anyways! :) I will remember from now on
Spot on Shelley, except for a capital 'm'. ;)
:D
Aw shucks! *Slaps wrists* i will memorise it yet! haha
mike.mckenzie
20-Mar-10, 18:42
Hi Mike.mckenzie, bit different now than when you posted this: "I dunno, I think this is the most polite, well behaved and friendly forum I have ever been on". in Sep 08!. ;)
Haha, yeah i stand by that - you been trawling my post history?!? That was kind of the point i was making when I said "I hardly think this forum is somewhere that provides a base for such practices"
I always say this though
"Its the internet - people say stuff!"
Bobinovich
20-Mar-10, 18:45
Taking offence to someone else's statements does not constitute bullying. By definition, bullying is someone exploiting a position of superiority at the expense of the victim. I hardly think this forum is somewhere that provides a base for such practices, its virtual, what is there to gain?
I would say what others have said, if you don't like certain posters, ignore them. If you don't like the responses to your posts on an internet forum, don't post them. People don't have to agree with you.
Spot on :cool:
I agree with you! And i thought exactly the same "If you cant take it dont give it"
After also reading Berkismans post with all of what Fred has also said well im sorry Fred but those comments arent the nicest.
I have nothing against you, i have nothing against anyone. Any orgers i have met have been lovely. And thats even including e 2 pervs Mik & Bob.
Fred, just relax. Its all typing. I let the orgers rip the mikey out of me this week about my thongs. Its got to be light hearted fun!
This place needs more fun!!!!!!!!
Oh no - I'm gonna yell "Bully" 'cos someone used my name in a thread that I've not posted on (well not until now anyway!) :lol:
I'm not sure if Fred was meaning my post here (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=677924&postcount=127) when he started this thread (if not then ignore the rest), but it was merely pointing out that I find some of the 'conspiracy theory' posts of the three members quite similar. Hardly bullying in anybody's books.
Maybe he feels that, as a Moderator, I shouldn't post interjections such as that? Well sorry to say it but unless I post a statement wearing my Moderator's hat then everything I say is me, and only me :confused
Spot on
Maybe he feels that, as a Moderator, I shouldn't post interjections such as that? Well sorry to say it but unless I post a statement wearing my Moderator's hat then everything I say is me, and only me :confused
Doesn't shelley calling a moderator a perv constitute an insult and an automatic 12 point infraction? [lol]
Taking offence to someone else's statements does not constitute bullying. By definition, bullying is someone exploiting a position of superiority at the expense of the victim. I hardly think this forum is somewhere that provides a base for such practices, its virtual, what is there to gain?
I would say what others have said, if you don't like certain posters, ignore them. If you don't like the responses to your posts on an internet forum, don't post them. People don't have to agree with you.
"Exploiting a position of Superiority at someone's expense'............. Not many Superior people on here.. Maybe Tubthumper's poetry!!
changilass
20-Mar-10, 19:02
Doesn't shelley calling a moderator a perv constitute an insult and an automatic 12 point infraction? [lol]
It don't count, cos she was calling Bob a perv not moderator - he wasnae wearing his hat at the time :lol:
Bobinovich
20-Mar-10, 19:05
Doesn't shelley calling a moderator a perv constitute an insult and an automatic 12 point infraction? [lol]
Well after spotting the cheesewire (I love that expression - ty Wifie) she calls a thong, quoting Sisquo, and subsequently insisting she call me an old perv, not just a perv, I really have left myself no room to manoeuvre :lol:
John Little
20-Mar-10, 19:16
I am relieved that the Berk thing is sorted out and is a typo. If it were not then it would be extremely offensive.
People do tend to use words whose meaning they have no idea of, and I had thought this deliberate.
I am glad it was not.
Well after spotting the cheesewire (I love that expression - ty Wifie) she calls a thong, quoting Sisquo, and subsequently insisting she call me an old perv, not just a perv, I really have left myself no room to manoeuvre :lol:
[lol][lol]
Fred just respond in kind and keep using the report button.
ShelleyCowie
20-Mar-10, 19:28
Doesn't shelley calling a moderator a perv constitute an insult and an automatic 12 point infraction? [lol]
I was only tellin the truth! Bob is a perv and he didna even deny it! lol
Well after spotting the cheesewire (I love that expression - ty Wifie) she calls a thong, quoting Sisquo, and subsequently insisting she call me an old perv, not just a perv, I really have left myself no room to manoeuvre :lol:
"Spotting"?? More like "seeking" lol I know u and Mik were "Cheesewire" seeking! Im sure i saw binoculars lol
Mystical Potato Head
20-Mar-10, 19:29
Taking offence to someone else's statements does not constitute bullying. By definition, bullying is someone exploiting a position of superiority at the expense of the victim. I hardly think this forum is somewhere that provides a base for such practices, its virtual, what is there to gain?
I would say what others have said, if you don't like certain posters, ignore them. If you don't like the responses to your posts on an internet forum, don't post them. People don't have to agree with you.
Very true,ppl dont have to agree with you but some of the replies do get rather personal and you shouldnt have to put up with that on a supposedly civilised forum although lately its not been quite so civilised with neanderthal man lowering the general IQ.
It may not be bullying per say but if someone feels they have had a hard time due to the behaviour and replies of some of the arseholes on here then there is a problem,bullying or not the one thing that cant be argued is the general forum has turned into a complete joke with hardly any threads being immune to the petty bickering that has dominated the org for weeks,in fact months and its the same ppl who are constantly to blame,everyone knows who they are and quite obviously,they are revelling in it.
Its all very easy for ppl to advise "just ignore them" because its only a forum or its not real life, problem is not everyone has thick skin or are in a little clique who come running like the cavalry to their assisstance when someone has the nerve to disagree or criticise them.
Haha, yeah i stand by that - you been trawling my post history?!? That was kind of the point i was making when I said "I hardly think this forum is somewhere that provides a base for such practices"
I always say this though
"Its the internet - people say stuff!"
Hi Mike.. no, it was your signature that made me wonder, so had a quick look to see if you had 'gone somewhere' - just found that (very apt) quote on the way! ;)
danc1ngwitch
20-Mar-10, 19:39
maybe it's to strong to use the word bulling on the org,
( pecking order )
You know I'm accually beginning to beleive that nice people are few and far between.
I read posts and i just think well thats opinions, and do they count for me errrr NO.
I tell my little boy, "if you can't say anything nice say nothing at all",
But this is a forum, expect people to be different.
I'm not sure if Fred was meaning my post here (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=677924&postcount=127) when he started this thread (if not then ignore the rest), but it was merely pointing out that I find some of the 'conspiracy theory' posts of the three members quite similar. Hardly bullying in anybody's books.
I hadn't posted to the thread, why bring my name into it?
As a result of you making personal remarks about me this post (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=678224&postcount=171) was made.
As I said earlier, if these were isolated instances it wouldn't matter but they happen so often as to constitute harassment, every day I have to read offensive remarks made about me.
ShelleyCowie
20-Mar-10, 19:59
I hadn't posted to the thread, why bring my name into it?
As a result of you making personal remarks about me this post (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=678224&postcount=171) was made.
As I said earlier, if these were isolated instances it wouldn't matter but they happen so often as to constitute harassment, every day I have to read offensive remarks made about me.
Peoples names are mentioned on threads that they have not posted in all the time Fred, i think your taking this a little too seriously.
and the link you gave im not sure i can see how its an offensive remark? Sorry if im just being thick!
Also maybe to back up what you have said "every day I have to read offensive remarks made about me."
then a few more links might make people realise what you mean!
No offense....just trying to help understand where your coming from! ;)
Shelleys here to help! Thong an'all! [lol]
and the link you gave im not sure i can see how its an offensive remark? Sorry if im just being thick!
So tell me, what was the purpose of the post in your opinion, what reason do you think the poster had to make it?
changilass
20-Mar-10, 20:11
Sorry Fred but IMHO you are like a dowg wi a bone, you have made your point, just leave it be and folks may have a bitty sympathy. Keep gnawing at it and no one will give a toss.
ShelleyCowie
20-Mar-10, 20:11
So tell me, what was the purpose of the post in your opinion, what reason do you think the poster had to make it?
Ok so i had to go and read back on the thread because your link just gave that one post. anyway, there isnt probably a real purpose to it Mr Fred. This is a forum and i think it was a joke.
As Bekisman pointed out on some of the things you have posted...they did not seem so "jokely" (not a word probably) Im making no jibes at you Fred, im just stating what i think.
And not to be nasty again but to be honest i dont read alot of threads you post on such as the obama thread, i lost interest in that long ago, same as the nato thread or whatever its called. So i cant say iv noticed actual bullying.
Im confusing myself here actually. Im off for a brew! Who wants one? ;)
Just the other night I was browsing here and actually thought to myself why is Freds name brought into so many posts, so if I noticed then I am not surprised Fred has.
It has almost become a slang term here for describing a type of posting and it is rarely done in a positive way.
Bobinovich
20-Mar-10, 20:14
I hadn't posted to the thread, why bring my name into it?
As a result of you making personal remarks about me this post (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=678224&postcount=171) was made.
As I said earlier, if these were isolated instances it wouldn't matter but they happen so often as to constitute harassment, every day I have to read offensive remarks made about me.
So by your logic Shelley bringing my name onto this thread, despite my not having posted on it, also constitutes bullying? I think not [evil]! Mine was a simple quip based on .D.'s posts sounding similarly 'conspiracy theorist' to some of your own and Savros'.
Your first post after mine apparently classes my post as 'abusive' :eek:. Do I take offence, no. It's plainly obvious to all and sundry that my post was merely a comparison of your respective styles and opinions. In fact it is because of your 'abusive' post that you start getting the rip pulled out of you, so as others have suggested, maybe you bring it upon yourself.
Ok so i had to go and read back on the thread because your link just gave that one post. anyway, there isnt probably a real purpose to it Mr Fred. This is a forum and i think it was a joke.
I didn't think it was funny.
So by your logic Shelley bringing my name onto this thread, despite my not having posted on it, also constitutes bullying? I think not [evil]! Mine was a simple quip based on .D.'s posts sounding similarly 'conspiracy theorist' to some of your own and Savros'.
Your first post after mine apparently classes my post as 'abusive' :eek:. Do I take offence, no. It's plainly obvious to all and sundry that my post was merely a comparison of your respective styles and opinions. In fact it is because of your 'abusive' post that you start getting the rip pulled out of you, so as others have suggested, maybe you bring it upon yourself.
So you were accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist.
It isn't exactly a compliment to call someone a conspiracy theorist is it? It is a derogatory term.
ShelleyCowie
20-Mar-10, 20:22
I didn't think it was funny.
Then im done here Fred. I think you have taken it far too seriously and am now wondering what the aim of this thread was? Why not sort it out through a moderator? They are nice enough to help people. PM's i have sent always got replied too. Actually think iv only ever sent one tbh.
But anyways. Im done trying here, was trying to make the thread a bit less serious. But its just turned back serious! :confused
northener
20-Mar-10, 20:28
I keep likening Stavro to 'Rik' off the Young Ones.......does this make me a bad person?:Razz
changilass
20-Mar-10, 20:31
Tut tut Northener, that's bullying that is.
Stavros hasn't even posted on this thread, how very dare you bring his name into it.
Bobinovich
20-Mar-10, 20:33
So you were accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist.
It isn't exactly a compliment to call someone a conspiracy theorist is it? It is a derogatory term.
IMHO yes you are, but don't worry, I won't tell anyone else!
I don't think it's any worse than Shelley calling me a perv - horses for courses.
Anyhoo - a chicken patia with onion rice & chicken pakora is calling me, so I'll bid you adieu for now.
Just the other night I was browsing here and actually thought to myself why is Freds name brought into so many posts, so if I noticed then I am not surprised Fred has.
It has almost become a slang term here for describing a type of posting and it is rarely done in a positive way.
I've noticed this too unicorn, from the moment Fred set foot back here, but more so now. It doesn't seem to be in a good way and if it was 'Angela' not 'Fred' treated like this, I'd be feeling pretty aggrieved, tbh.
I know that one person's 'banter' can be another person's 'abuse' and folk can take things the 'wrong' way, but what I've read have not been replies within a thread, but bringing Fred's name quite gratuitously into other threads...even starting threads primarily to have a go at him. I had thought this was simply against the forum rules.
If the man's paranoid [para][para][para]... well, it's little wonder!
Why oh why can't folk stick to replying to the post without having to attack the poster? You can disagree 100% with what someone posts without resorting to a personal attack.
Very true,ppl dont have to agree with you but some of the replies do get rather personal and you shouldnt have to put up with that on a supposedly civilised forum although lately its not been quite so civilised with neanderthal man lowering the general IQ.
It may not be bullying per say but if someone feels they have had a hard time due to the behaviour and replies of some of the arseholes on here then there is a problem,bullying or not the one thing that cant be argued is the general forum has turned into a complete joke with hardly any threads being immune to the petty bickering that has dominated the org for weeks,in fact months and its the same ppl who are constantly to blame,everyone knows who they are and quite obviously,they are revelling in it.
Its all very easy for ppl to advise "just ignore them" because its only a forum or its not real life, problem is not everyone has thick skin or are in a little clique who come running like the cavalry to their assisstance when someone has the nerve to disagree or criticise them.
Good all round post,an well presented fred.
Some really well humourous replys, had me chuckling there,the more obvious serious ones,are of course due their worth.
My take is mostly with PTH's reply.
John Little
20-Mar-10, 22:10
"It isn't exactly a compliment to call someone a conspiracy theorist is it? It is a derogatory term. http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=678584)
This is true. But perhaps it is not more derogatory than this;
"your philosophy smacks very much of that of Nazi Germany, nothing wrong with genocide"
Which was part of your reply to me on another thread. I am new here and do not see myself as one of the org bullies you refer to. I had no image of Fred when I arrived here - the one that I have is largely your creation.
But as I remarked at the time, you are rather given to hyperbole. And the use of rather emotive language.
You obviously feel very strongly about quite a range of matters, which is laudable, but I do think it's a bit rich to want it both ways.
You are a responsible adult and must know that the choice of language elicits certain responses and creates in the mind of the recipient a certain image of the person making the remarks. Logically this gives you a certain responsibility in the form those remarks take. To be surprised at the rather heated tenor of them rather smacks of the pot calling the kettle black.
Intemperate language breeds intemperate language. If you want politeness and restraint in dealing with people, then perhaps it would be wiser to use that currency yourself?
This is true. But perhaps it is not more derogatory than this;
"your philosophy smacks very much of that of Nazi Germany, nothing wrong with genocide"
That wasn't a personal attack, we were discussing political philosophies, Plato's noble lie, realpolitik.
I'm sorry but I just can't agree with you that a nation's self interests come before human rights or that the people should be lied to for their own good because they are too stupid to understand the truth. If you read what was said by German political leaders in pre war Germany you will see that that is exactly what they were saying too.
There is good reason for this, the person behind the Machiavellianism in modern politics was a man called Leo Strauss who emigrated to America from Germany in the 1930s, he taught many of the American politicians like William Kristol and Paul Wolfowitz who came to power in 2001 and started putting their philosophy into practice.
That isn't personal or derogatory, it's just telling what modern political philosophy is.
John Little
20-Mar-10, 23:12
I know something of modern political philosophy. And I also know that likke the Kaiser's army you always counter attack. I will write this now. You invoked Godwin's Law when replying to me. On Wiki rational the definition of Godwin's law is this;
"Godwin’s Law does not dispute the validity or otherwise of references or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis. As such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate in a discussion, Godwin has argued that overuse of the Nazi comparison should be avoided as it waters down the impact of any valid usage. In its purest sense, the rule has more to do with completely losing one's sense of proportion rather than just mentioning Nazis specifically.[1] (http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law#cite_note-0)
With the increase in the number of media for online discussion, Godwin's law is now applied to any online discussion - be they mailing lists, message boards, forums, chat rooms, blog comment threads, or wiki talk pages.
Traditionally in many Internet discussion forums, it is the rule that once such a comparison is made, the discussion is effectively finished and whoever mentioned Hitler or the Nazis has automatically lost the debate (http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Cohen%27s_Law)"
You knew this, but you still went ahead and did it.
Your purpose?
I asks you guvner- is this rational? And I leaves you to answer it.
John Little
20-Mar-10, 23:16
"...or that the people should be lied to for their own good because they are too stupid to understand the truth."
You disagree with this? Then you also disagree with just about every writer on Propaganda since the last world war including Jaques Ellul and Noam Chomsky to name but two. This is how it works.
You blame Strauss? Don't you think that's a wee bit deterministic? It's rather more complex than that.
Anyway this is thread drift - you were talking of Org Bullies I think, and that is what I replied about.
I'm not sure if Fred was meaning my post here (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=677924&postcount=127) when he started this thread ...
I saw that comment last night and I found it very amusing. Nothing to be offended about from my point of view.
However, I can understand why Fred would not find it quite so funny (well, not funny at all actually), because he has taken a lot of stick recently that was uncalled for.
For example, one member started a thread with no purpose whatsoever, other than to demean Fred. It was one of the most premeditated, vindictive and spiteful posts that I have ever seen on a public forum. So I flagged it as such (and told the moderators what I thought of it). Others must have done the same, because the thread was removed. The system thus worked well - the moderators considered the matter and made a decision. We should congratulate them for that, not decry them for "doing nothing."
The problem, in my opinion, is that the type of subject that Fred is undoubtedly very knowledgeable on (even if you do not agree with him for whatever reason) is such that the discussion can easily become heated. Comments within the thread are then to be expected, but comments that are placed elsewhere blatantly and vindictively (rather than light-heartedly, as with Bobinovich's quip) can become quite nasty I would imagine.
I keep likening Stavro to 'Rik' off the Young Ones.......does this make me a bad person?:Razz
Yes! :lol: ... Gotcha!
Tubthumper
20-Mar-10, 23:25
Very true,ppl dont have to agree with you but some of the replies do get rather personal and you shouldnt have to put up with that on a supposedly civilised forum although lately its not been quite so civilised with neanderthal man lowering the general IQ.
It may not be bullying per say but if someone feels they have had a hard time due to the behaviour and replies of some of the arseholes on here then there is a problem,bullying or not the one thing that cant be argued is the general forum has turned into a complete joke with hardly any threads being immune to the petty bickering that has dominated the org for weeks,in fact months and its the same ppl who are constantly to blame,everyone knows who they are and quite obviously,they are revelling in it.
Its all very easy for ppl to advise "just ignore them" because its only a forum or its not real life, problem is not everyone has thick skin or are in a little clique who come running like the cavalry to their assisstance when someone has the nerve to disagree or criticise them.
It's just a bit difficult to pick out who you're aiming this at MPH. If I'm one of those being branded a bully, can I point out that the situation has arisen since fred came back to posting. Perhaps that says something, especially if one takes into account the reasons for his last departure.
I'll say this in anticipation of being shot at: before you takes sides with Fred and his bemoaning of the persecution he feels he's suffering, make sure you carefully read the input he and his acolytes have made. There may be logic, there may be some sense, but in amongst it there's a lot of utter tripe, and there are posts which are there simply to inflame and annoy. There are only two sides in fredworld - with fred or against fred. And when he feels he's not getting his own way, he's being bullied or a clique is campaigning.
'Don't bully me!' he cries, while supporting the persecution of those who are unjustly accused, then brands anyone who disagrees with his paranoid world view as a 'paedophile apologist' or 'torture supporter'.
I'm a member of no clique. There are some of us who have similar life experiences and who as a result see aspects of life in the same way. Like it or not it's how we and many thousands of other people in the UK are. I have a robust sense of humour. If you don't like it, don't read my posts. And I firmly believe in getting wired into people (with the minimum necessary force) [Clarification: I mean through words on the org, not by threat of physical violence!] who post garbage and support terrorism, who undermine this country and the people who defend it and who generally call everything I stand for into question.
I'll happily take a ban if it's justified - in fact I want no part of an org where the likes of fred and his clique are supported without question. [evil]
There are a couple of things to consider:
The way people post and their actual meaning does not always sit within 'netiquette'. (I guess I'm teaching granny to suck eggs here)
There is no real way of recognising if a persons reply is flippant, sarcastic, caustic, nasty, intentionally personal or a childish quip which seemed a good idea at the time (I think I fall into this category most of the time).
I must say fred that sometimes your posts do come across in an inflammatory way, your manner and demeanour on the .org does seem to be aimed at rubbing people up the wrong way without actually writing (saying) anything directly, although some of your replies have been quite personal in their manner.
Why and how is being claimed to be a conspiracy theorist derogatory?
You have to admit that some of your posted views follow what would be thought as such in comparison to the media mainstream. This is an observation, not a criticism.
Some of your posts have made me think and made sought further research, which is a good thing. However, all that is on the 'web is not gospel.
Yet on occasion it appears you've argued those who have direct experience with vagarious links of information off the web and tried to belittle them, again because their experience does not match your views.
I do get the impression sometimes that you are not even accepting of another holding a different viewpoint, never mind open to discussion.
I can't decide if your are subject to uncalled for and overtly negative postings or if you are bringing this on a little yourself by your apparent 'manner' on the .org, and by highlighting any negative or non-agreeing response as a "bullying" post.
After all this is public forum on the 'tinterweb. Learn to live a little, if you frequent public houses often I'm sure you'll have been part of more 'robust' and 'colourful' debate than on this sanitised place.
Don't take it to heart, it's a distraction, not a way of life.
I fear I'm rambling now so I'll leave it there.
John Little
20-Mar-10, 23:31
Tubthumper-
Now that's the problem! Emotive language.
Fred's got a point of view and the right to say what he thinks.
So have you.
So why the need for pistols at dawn?
Thump the tub by all means but blood on the grass?
Calm doon dears - it's only a forum fergawdsake!
You knew this, but you still went ahead and did it.
Your purpose?
I asks you guvner- is this rational? And I leaves you to answer it.
As I explained, because in this instance it was relevant. I don't think you can defend things like torture or lying to the public because they wouldn't understand why we were starting an illegal war which will kill millions without a comparison with Nazi Germany coming into the discussion.
Tubthumper
20-Mar-10, 23:38
Tubthumper-
Now that's the problem! Emotive language.
Fred's got a point of view and the right to say what he thinks.
So have you.
So why the need for pistols at dawn?
Thump the tub by all means but blood on the grass?
Calm doon dears - it's only a forum fergawdsake!
I am calm, JL, I just keep getting these headaches.
John Little
20-Mar-10, 23:43
And in the climate of this thread andafter what Phill has just said, I do agree, so I'm not going to let go what you said in your last repy Fred. You seem to make certain assumptions about me which, I can see, in a less tempered mind might evoke an inflamed response. eg;
"I'm sorry but I just can't agree with you that a nation's self interests come before human rights.."
There's an assumption here that I agree that national self interests come before human rights.
What do you mean? Do you mean that I agree that they should do so? Or do you not agree with my observation that they do, regardless of what I believe should be?
"If you read what was said by German political leaders in pre war Germany..."
Why do you assume that I have not?
Actually I have - quite a lot.
"he taught many of the American politicians like William Kristol and Paul Wolfowitz who came to power in 2001 and started putting their philosophy into practice."
Well yes but I assure you that the Whig tendencies in the rulers of the USA have a much longer pedigree than this. The selfishness goes right back to the founding fathers and before. It's too simple.
I know you know scads of stuff.
But so do a lot more people here - and they also know what they speak of.
John Little
20-Mar-10, 23:51
"or lying to the public because they wouldn't understand why we were starting an illegal war which will kill millions without a comparison with Nazi Germany coming into the discussion."
But my dear fellow the public are always lied to.
The whole structure of society is a lie.
The entire fabric of 'Democracy is a lie'
That's another discussion.
Do you really think you can sit there comparing the views of your fellow posters with Nazis and not have them think you guilty of getting things out of proportion?
Please never never never tell a fellow in a pub discussion that he thinks like a Nazi. I would just leave - but I cannot answer for what others may do.
I repeat, whatever you may think of my mild examples - you have not riled me- but I have seen some of the things you have said to others - and what they have said to you.
Anyway- as before, I have said my piece, but reiterate as I move out of this thread.
Doasyouwouldbedoneby
Bedonebyasyoudid.
Fare thee well.
It's just a bit difficult to pick out who you're aiming this at MPH. If I'm one of those being branded a bully, can I point out that the situation has arisen since fred came back to posting. Perhaps that says something, especially if one takes into account the reasons for his last departure.
The reasons for my last departure?
What would they be then?
can I point out that the situation has arisen since fred came back to posting.. [evil]
Male bovine excretia!!!! The same nastiness goes on whether Fred posts or not with the same people being nasty at every possible occasion. This used to be a good forum for a heated debate but no more.
I must say fred that sometimes your posts do come across in an inflammatory way, your manner and demeanour on the .org does seem to be aimed at rubbing people up the wrong way without actually writing (saying) anything directly, although some of your replies have been quite personal in their manner.
How do you see that?
If I wanted to be rubbing people up the wrong way I would be posting to their Wooten Basset and George Cross threads, I could really rub people up the wrong way if that was my intention. But I don't, I stay out of them.
However when I post about the deaths of innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq I am harassed and victimised for it.
Don't you understand that someone can feel just as strongly about the death of a Muslim child as they do about a British soldier? People can post and call Rachel Corrie "stupid" but what would happen if I said the same about a British bomb disposal expert?
Male bovine excretia!!!! The same nastiness goes on whether Fred posts or not with the same people being nasty at every possible occasion. This used to be a good forum for a heated debate but no more.
Actually Gleber2 I would disagree with that and I don't mean Fred.
There's been an influx of "new posters" here recently and I think it is patently obvious that some of them have been around the block before. We all have the option to either ignore them or report http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/report.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/report.php?p=678712) their posts. :)
Actually Gleber2 I would disagree with that and I don't mean Fred.
There's been an influx of "new posters" here recently and I think it is patently obvious that some of them have been around the block before. We all have the option to either ignore them or report http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/report.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/report.php?p=678712) their posts. :)
Pray tell me how you came to that conclusion? Perhaps some read more that they post! And some were not graciously welcomed!
So Fred has retired to his tent, either exhausted or in a state of high moral dudgeon.
I suppose it is too much to hope that he will stay there...
Listen up, folks - employing a sense of humor is a perfectly legitimate rhetorical device. And there is no doubt in my mind at least that Fred has brought much of his current woes upon his own head.
He has done this by preaching - Im sorry but there is no other word for it. I would remind him that in Caithness we have had considerable historical experience of being denounced from the pulpit - we are, after all, a Calvinist country, here in Scotland. (You are in Scotland, arent you Fred)
So I think many of us have a built in resistance to the Unco Guid as Burns would have it. Its in our DNA!
So while you are sitting on your camp stool wondering if you dare stick your head outside meditate upon your mode of argument.
Because it is no surprise to me that lot of people on the Otg do not find you to be exactly a barrel full of laughs. Lighten up! You might even lure some people to your side in this endless series of Fred threads.
Aaldtimer
21-Mar-10, 04:41
Stavro..."For example, one member started a thread with no purpose whatsoever, other than to demean Fred. It was one of the most premeditated, vindictive and spiteful posts that I have ever seen on a public forum. So I flagged it as such (and told the moderators what I thought of it). Others must have done the same, because the thread was removed. The system thus worked well - the moderators considered the matter and made a decision. We should congratulate them for that, not decry them for "doing nothing."
Yes, I started a thread(if it is the one you are referring to) with a bit of (stated) mischief intended.
Yes, I mentioned Fred.
But, that thread, when it lasted actually evoked some interesting responses.
You claimed to know not of which I spoke when I suggested that you had run "whingeing to the Mods".
Now , if we are talking about the same thread, you seem to be hoist on your own petard.
It wasn't done in a vindictive, spiteful way at all.
It was done to illustrate that anyone could start a controversial thread.
The thread got pulled by the Mods...OK, pity really, it could have been quite interesting.
I got an infraction...Jeeze, I haven't slept since...Leanne, that jumper to conclusions, gave me bad rep...wooo, really gonna worry about that!
Meanwhile, I'll just sit back , shake my head, and laugh at the conspiracy theorists posts.
Oh, and Stav, no lessons learned I'm afraid!;)
So Fred has retired to his tent, either exhausted or in a state of high moral dudgeon.
I suppose it is too much to hope that he will stay there...
Listen up, folks - employing a sense of humor is a perfectly legitimate rhetorical device. And there is no doubt in my mind at least that Fred has brought much of his current woes upon his own head.
He has done this by preaching - Im sorry but there is no other word for it. I would remind him that in Caithness we have had considerable historical experience of being denounced from the pulpit - we are, after all, a Calvinist country, here in Scotland. (You are in Scotland, arent you Fred)
So I think many of us have a built in resistance to the Unco Guid as Burns would have it. Its in our DNA!
So while you are sitting on your camp stool wondering if you dare stick your head outside meditate upon your mode of argument.
Because it is no surprise to me that lot of people on the Otg do not find you to be exactly a barrel full of laughs. Lighten up! You might even lure some people to your side in this endless series of Fred threads.
You know RICH, I am just wondering if you are 'funning' or stirring...I have read these posts and think that this is of what people detest.....'verbose'. We can all talk as such, but when we are talking normally there is little need to actually make a point, beyond making our point!
Poor Fred...Not really....The one person on the here that I have met, knowingly, is Fred..... many years ago. To me he seemed more an Intellect than most. So I would not normally reply to such post, but I feel that we should leave this alone. Humor is in the eye of the beholder, much as beauty is, and if in doubt, we should temper it with respect.
Over the past months I have learned much from the people on here and enjoyed the 'fun! So be it!
So Fred has retired to his tent, either exhausted or in a state of high moral dudgeon.
I suppose it is too much to hope that he will stay there...
Listen up, folks - employing a sense of humor is a perfectly legitimate rhetorical device. And there is no doubt in my mind at least that Fred has brought much of his current woes upon his own head.
So you think I should have injected a bit of humour into the George Cross thread? Made a few jokes about bomb disposal experts dying? What do you think would have happened if I had. Yet you say you are just trying to inject a bit of humour into a thread about Afghani women and children dying horrible deaths and I get blamed for trying to rub people up the wrong way.
The person who started the George Cross thread didn't get questioned about his motives for starting it yet someone who starts a thread about Rachel Corrie did.
Last night in this post (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=678765&postcount=557) you make more personal attacks trying to switch the debate round to me and others and away from the subject of the thread yet people say it is my manner and demeanour that is the probem.
I am calm, JL, I just keep getting these headaches.
And the voices, never forget the voices :eek:
Well after all this whinging from all camps, I haven't changed my mind in any way.
Treat the org as good old-fashioned bull session, where anyone is welcome to express any daft opinion they want, and everyone else is equally welcome to ridicule it.
But remember this, if you don't get on with most of your neighbours, you are the common denominator ;)
Oh, and if you call fellow org members: murdering psyocopaths, don't expect them to thank you
I dont think fred does him self any favours but he still has a point. The same protagonists that are all over him every time he posts and are continuing it on here, denigrating his opinions and making light of the whole situation. If every time i posted i had to fend off all this crap attack then i would be fed up with it as well. Its all very well saying ignore it but if its in your face every time you posted how would you feel. Its not a single person issue either. There are a certain few that if you disagree with will take against that poster. Free speech is one thing but it dont give folks the right to indulge in all the egotistical trolling thats going on across the general board derailing threads and spoiling things for others to satisfy their own egos. The Org looks well lame for it!!
Saying all that though i supose that we should be greatfull that it is only such a small section of the boards that are being affected by this nonsence and its not overly wide spread!!!
I do sometimes wonder if everyone ignored the "problem" would they stop posting or perhaps turn on each other then? At the end of the day,life is just to short for squabbles and childishness when there are far bigger isssues going on in the world than who is talking rubbish and who isnt,although I suppose thats why half the world is at war-simply because people cant agree to disagree!x
So you think I should have injected a bit of humour into the George Cross thread? Made a few jokes about bomb disposal experts dying? What do you think would have happened if I had. Yet you say you are just trying to inject a bit of humour into a thread about Afghani women and children dying horrible deaths and I get blamed for trying to rub people up the wrong way.
The person who started the George Cross thread didn't get questioned about his motives for starting it yet someone who starts a thread about Rachel Corrie did.
Fred - I'd better try to clarify - my own personal opinion is that posters simply seem to imply you should 'lighten up' a bit - this does not interpret into your suggestion of inserting jokes into my George Cross thread, or calling a Bomb Disposal expert stupid No-one has inserted jokes into the Rachel Corrie thread.
1. Rachel Corrie:
'On March 16 2003, Rachel Corrie, as part of her activities with the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), had gone to Rafah on the Egypt-Gaza border to prevent IDF demolitions of arms smuggling tunnels. ISM activists had repeatedly interfered with these operations, standing in front of the bulldozers and then leaping out of harm’s way. In this case, the IDF was bulldozing shrubbery that camouflaged the tunnels. Rachel apparently thought she was protecting the nearby home of a Palestinian pharmacist. She knelt in front of the bulldozer behind a pile of dirt.
The ISM claimed the bulldozer intentionally ran her over and killed her. After extensive investigation, the IDF concluded that the driver could not see her and that her death was an unfortunate accident. The IDF Judge Advocate’s Office concluded: “The driver at no point saw or heard Corrie. She was standing behind debris which obstructed the view of the driver and the driver had a very limited field of vision due to the protective cage he was working in.” An autopsy revealed that the bulldozer never rolled over Corrie: she was killed when debris dislodged by the bulldozer struck her head.
The ISM claim was based on two photos it released: one of Rachel standing in a bright orange flak jacket, a bull horn in her hand, with a bulldozer only yards away; the second of the fallen Rachel, the bulldozer just behind her. ISM claimed these photos were taken within minutes of each other. However, it quickly became apparent that the photos had not been taken sequentially, but probably hours apart. The first photo showed a morning sky; the second photo showed an afternoon sky. The bulldozer in the first picture was not the same one shown in the second picture. The first picture did not fit initial eyewitness reports that Rachel did not have a bullhorn in her hand at the time of the accident nor did it show the mound of earth repeatedly described. ISM bystanders said no photographers were present before the accident occurred. The IDF concluded that Rachel was sitting on a mound of dirt and could not be seen by the driver. When he continued his operations, she could have rolled away but instead tried to climb to the top of the mound but the digging drew her downward, causing the accident. Later autopsy reports revealed that the cause of death was blows to the head, probably from the heavy debris dislodged by the bulldozer.' [see #43 of Rachel Corrie thread]
2. Bomb Disposal Experts: I think for the vast majority of Orgers, nothing needs to be explained.
Fred - I'd better try to clarify - my own personal opinion is that posters simply seem to imply you should 'lighten up' a bit - this does not interpret into your suggestion of inserting jokes into my George Cross thread, or calling a Bomb Disposal expert stupid No-one has inserted jokes into the Rachel Corrie thread.
Where did I say they had?
My mistake!!!
I would be remiss if I didn't correct the fact that I have also met Golach & Canuck. Both very nice people....and intelligent I may add!.
And as one Great Man said.. Am oota here!
yawn yawn yawn yawn yawn
My apologies if you find the deaths of Peace Campaigners and / or Bomb disposal Experts boring.
Where did I say they had?
"No-one has inserted jokes into the Rachel Corrie thread" was an observed fact.
Fred, you are obviously unacquainted with Jonathan Swift. He was an Irish guy who recommended that the poor eat their children - "a modest proposal."
You dont seem to know much about satire!
Fred, you are obviously unacquainted with Jonathan Swift. He was an Irish guy who recommended that the poor eat their children - "a modest proposal."
You dont seem to know much about satire!
What I know about satire is irrelevant.
The standard bully's excuse of "it was just a bit of fun, we were just having a laugh" excuses nothing, it's just a cop out, how bullies justify what they do to themselves. It's still bullying and bullying is never much fun for the victim.
Stavro..."For example, one member started a thread with no purpose whatsoever, other than to demean Fred. It was one of the most premeditated, vindictive and spiteful posts that I have ever seen on a public forum. So I flagged it as such (and told the moderators what I thought of it). Others must have done the same, because the thread was removed. The system thus worked well - the moderators considered the matter and made a decision. We should congratulate them for that, not decry them for "doing nothing."
Yes, I started a thread(if it is the one you are referring to) with a bit of (stated) mischief intended.
Yes, I mentioned Fred.
But, that thread, when it lasted actually evoked some interesting responses.
You claimed to know not of which I spoke when I suggested that you had run "whingeing to the Mods".
Now , if we are talking about the same thread, you seem to be hoist on your own petard.
It wasn't done in a vindictive, spiteful way at all.
It was done to illustrate that anyone could start a controversial thread.
The thread got pulled by the Mods...OK, pity really, it could have been quite interesting.
I got an infraction...Jeeze, I haven't slept since...Leanne, that jumper to conclusions, gave me bad rep...wooo, really gonna worry about that!
Meanwhile, I'll just sit back , shake my head, and laugh at the conspiracy theorists posts.
Oh, and Stav, no lessons learned I'm afraid!;)
It is very evident that you have not learned anything, Aaldtimer, since I had already told you that I had not "run whingeing to the Mods," as you so eloquently put it about you or your silly, self-proclaimed trolling thread. I had just avoided it, as a lesson to you to grow up.
You are obviously bothered by your bad rep and infraction, which I knew nothing about until you broadcast it to the nation (well, Caithness anyway), or you would not keep harping on about it.
The thread I was referring to was started by Tubthumper. There. Can I be of any more assistance to you in clearing your mind? (The Council charge Ł15 for uplifting rubbish - maybe I should start charging you?) :lol:
No-one has inserted jokes into the Rachel Corrie thread.
1. Rachel Corrie:
'On March 16 2003, Rachel Corrie, ...
bekisman, having made the first statement quoted above, you could have left it at that, but instead you went to all the trouble of copying the propaganda that you had posted in post #43 of the Rachel Corrie thread.
You are trying to score points, especially as you then state that most org members would have sympathy with the death of a bomb disposal expert. Of course they would, but you tried to turn this into some sort of contest. "Roll up, roll up, place your sympathy on 'my side' folks."
And all this on a thread about targeted bullying.
Some time ago you accused me of being "sick," for pointing people (with a very clear warning) to a link to a photo of one example of the carnage that you have consistently defended on these boards.
What you have done is deliberately and with some effort repeat a biased, Zionist claim against Rachel Corrie, in a totally inappropriate place, for the purpose of emphasis. In my opinion, your post is sick.
bekisman, having made the first statement quoted above, you could have left it at that, but instead you went to all the trouble of copying the propaganda that you had posted in post #43 of the Rachel Corrie thread.
You are trying to score points, especially as you then state that most org members would have sympathy with the death of a bomb disposal expert. Of course they would, but you tried to turn this into some sort of contest. "Roll up, roll up, place your sympathy on 'my side' folks."
And all this on a thread about targeted bullying.
Some time ago you accused me of being "sick," for pointing people (with a very clear warning) to a link to a photo of one example of the carnage that you have consistently defended on these boards.
What you have done is deliberately and with some effort repeat a biased, Zionist claim against Rachel Corrie, in a totally inappropriate place, for the purpose of emphasis. In my opinion, your post is sick.
Bullying? this post of yours and certainly the one above mine, is more akin to that me thinks..
I think it's important Bazeye, I recently returned to the forum after not posting for a while and noticed that many of the users who used to stick to the facts of a discussion and were a pleasure to debate with had left while those who always resort to personal abuse are still here.
your right i even got an abusive PM from a now banned member the banter and 'craick' is one thing but abusiveness and bulling is out of order and usually only carried out by the week minded anyway.
Fred, are you accusing me of being a bully?
If so I am delighted to wear that hat.
You hurtle from arrogance to self pity in the blink of an eye. You can dish it out but you cant take it.
Now here's a bully question for you. What do you think would happen to Afghan women if we pulled out. Doesn't bear thinking about does it?
And the other question you refuse to answer is: are you going to withhold from your income tax the portion that goes to the military?
The Org deserves an answer. So 'fess up!
Fred, are you accusing me of being a bully?
If so I am delighted to wear that hat.
You hurtle from arrogance to self pity in the blink of an eye. You can dish it out but you cant take it.
Now here's a bully question for you. What do you think would happen to Afghan women if we pulled out. Doesn't bear thinking about does it?
And the other question you refuse to answer is: are you going to withhold from your income tax the portion that goes to the military?
The Org deserves an answer. So 'fess up!
That is none of your business, nothing I do outside this forum is any of your business. Please do not keep trying to pull my personal and private life into discussions, that is just bullying, the exact sort of bullying this thread is all about.
I see rich is pleased to be called both a warmonger and a bully. No wonder he is obsessed with getting decent folk in prison. :D
That is none of your business, nothing I do outside this forum is any of your business. Please do not keep trying to pull my personal and private life into discussions, that is just bullying, the exact sort of bullying this thread is all about.
Fred, now you are becoming comical! You can't erect a "no-go" area around a political debate! I haven't insulted your parents or your colleagues or your employer. I have been remarkably restrained.
Indeed it is difficult to see how any sort of political debate could be carried out if one of the parties decides he has been bullied.
OK Fred here it comes. Here is the ultimate bullying job. Fred, you are:
A CRY BABY!!!!!!
Now tell me how much tax you are going to hold back to protest the war and how you are going to deal with the women of Afghanistan in the event of a western withdrawal?
Fred, now you are becoming comical! You can't erect a "no-go" area around a political debate! I haven't insulted your parents or your colleagues or your employer. I have been remarkably restrained.
Indeed it is difficult to see how any sort of political debate could be carried out if one of the parties decides he has been bullied.
OK Fred here it comes. Here is the ultimate bullying job. Fred, you are:
A CRY BABY!!!!!!
Now tell me how much tax you are going to hold back to protest the war and how you are going to deal with the women of Afghanistan in the event of a western withdrawal?
This is personal abuse and harassment. I have told you twice already, I do not discuss personal matters on the forum. My taxation is private, nothing to do with you or anyone else.
Tubthumper
21-Mar-10, 21:23
And the voices, never forget the voices :eek:
At least I never get lonely any more...
This is personal abuse and harassment. I have told you twice already, I do not discuss personal matters on the forum. My taxation is private, nothing to do with you or anyone else.
Fred, my man, it's back to political science 100 for you. Luckily I am here to do the educational work.
You are living in a democracy. So dont be so scared of the police or the Internal revenue inspectors. It's your right as a citizen to express yourself politically. In fact, that's what you have been doing on the Org.
What you need to do is formulate a position. You might like to begin by saying to me - that is a very good question, Rich. Here is my position on this interesting issue.
And you phrase it so you are sitting comfortably on the fence - on the one hand, but on the other.
Perfectly simple!
Gad to have been of help and now I am joining the ENOUGH club.
Tubthumper
21-Mar-10, 21:58
Rich - but that's what I do! I put my point, people disagree, I accuse them of being blind, they come back with smart retort, I spit the dummy and close the thread! Why don't you people LISTEN to me??
It's bullying, harrassment, invasion of privacy, breach of contract!
Oh sorry, it's the voices in my head - I thought I was Fred there for a moment...
My apologies if you find the deaths of Peace Campaigners and / or Bomb disposal Experts boring.
No i find your bullying campaign of off topic posting to persue this war of words against fred boring. I find fred having to fend off all this crap, personal digs and insults every time he posts no matter what he posts boring. I find having to wade through post after post of off topic kack to get back too someone who is posting on the actual thread topic boring. I find that one of two folks continualy getting their opinions crushed no matter what they express boring.
God knows i dont particularly aggree with many things raised by either side of the devide, all i want to see is folks respect each others opinion and their right to express it with out all this bullying and denigration.
Sorry if i am boring any one out there. I am just saying it as i see it!!
No i find your bullying campaign of off topic posting to persue this war of words against fred boring. I find fred having to fend off all this crap, personal digs and insults every time he posts no matter what he posts boring. I find having to wade through post after post of off topic kack to get back too someone who is posting on the actual thread topic boring. I find that one of two folks continualy getting their opinions crushed no matter what they express boring.
God knows i dont particularly aggree with many things raised by either side of the devide, all i want to see is folks respect each others opinion and their right to express it with out all this bullying and denigration.
Sorry if i am boring any one out there. I am just saying it as i see it!!
Well said.
Pray tell me how you came to that conclusion? Perhaps some read more that they post! And some were not graciously welcomed!
sandyr1, that's how I perceived it, that's all. As a member of this forum I have a right to express my opinion without explaining to you or anyone else as to how or why I arrived at that opinion.
I'm not sure about your penultimate sentence nor your last one. If you're trying to bully me by "exclamation mark", can I say, it's not working. :)
I find having to wade through post after post of off topic kack to get back too someone who is posting on the actual thread topic boring.
Well don't do it dear boy! ;)
can if i want.....na na na nana :lol::lol::lol:
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 00:33
No i find your bullying campaign of off topic posting to persue this war of words against fred boring. I find fred having to fend off all this crap, personal digs and insults every time he posts no matter what he posts boring. I find having to wade through post after post of off topic kack to get back too someone who is posting on the actual thread topic boring. I find that one of two folks continualy getting their opinions crushed no matter what they express boring.
God knows i dont particularly aggree with many things raised by either side of the devide, all i want to see is folks respect each others opinion and their right to express it with out all this bullying and denigration.
Sorry if i am boring any one out there. I am just saying it as i see it!!
Not boring at all. I think we could all do with a bit of 'see the other side's point of view', and that means all of us...
Once someone's gone off on one, its a bit hard not to jump to one side or the other.
can if i want.....na na na nana :lol::lol::lol:
Of course you can... enjoy!
My mistake!!!
I would be remiss if I didn't correct the fact that I have also met Golach & Canuck. Both very nice people....and intelligent I may add!.
And as one Great Man said.. Am oota here!
Sandyr1 ...mate have passed on your remarks to our mutual friend, she reminded me you also met the elusive Dr Szin, now thats an experience, I am glad to have had also, dinna let your standards slip Sandy lol
Sandyr1 ...mate have passed on your remarks to our mutual friend, she reminded me you also met the elusive Dr Szin, now thats an experience, I am glad to have had also, dinna let your standards slip Sandy lol
I think it is the retirement mode plus the ORG that makes me hazily befuddled (Gawd are there such words). Yes Dr Szin!
There are so many varied opinions and such strong people....and from so many facets and stations in life, & life experiences.
northener
22-Mar-10, 10:43
I've just realised i've posted on the wrong thread..it shoulda been on here.:roll:
Apologies for the 'cross posting' but i think it is warranted:
Originally Posted by Leanne http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=679360#post679360)
Actually ridiculing like that is bullying...
Now, this is where it gets complicated, one persons attempt at a humorous use of the subject is interpreted by another as bullying.
I'll hold my hand up and say that I mentioned Fred on another one quite some time ago. I cannot remember the exact details, but there was someone posting in the same style - and having the same line of argument/discussion that Fred would use.
My comment was "You're not related to Fred, are you?"
Now, I saw that as an attempt at humour with no malicious intent whatsover. Yet no doubt someone else would see it as 'bullying'.
I've noticed that there's been more references to Fred popping up since this FredThread* started and I've got to say that most references appear to be nothing more than very tongue in cheek mischief making and teasing at Freds' expense...but does that constitute bullying?
If someone said on another thread "You're as bad as Northener with that attitude", then, me personally, I wouldn't call that bullying.
If someone did a bit of mickey taking regarding my views, then that's fair game as well as far as I'm concerned. In fact it's a good way to diffuse some more heated moments in an online squabble or overcooked debate.
However, although I disagree with about 90% of what Fred says, I believe some of the 'criticism' is getting a little bit naughty. But Fred is as guilty as the next man or woman when it comes to unwarranted put downs and insults.
It's very much a two-way street. I would politely suggest that all parties take a step back and take a breath.
It's not real y'know.
*I've copyrighted that expression.....
I'll cross post too
Bullying and discrimination actually now has a legal definition. Something is classed as bullying or discrimination if it has the potential to cause offence regardless of the manner in which it was given. You may call someone the N word in good humour but it doesn't make it perceived as any less racist...
It's not real y'know.
But it is real.
I know not everyone who does it is being malicious, those who can't argue against the facts so turn to ridiculing the person who is stating them are the ones who are malicious but there are plenty who see it as fun to put people down and want to join in. It soon spreads from thread to thread and then new threads are started just to slag someone off more and more people see it as acceptable and want to join in and then it goes way over the top.
As I have said before I have a pretty good record for getting it right by not subscribing to mainstream opinion on this forum, many of the things they put me down and slagged me off for saying turned out to be true.
When I get replies like this one (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=676708&postcount=10) for making a valid point, when two days later the Jews for Justice web site post an article making the exact same point (http://jfjfp.com/?p=11500) I made, that is just bullying.
northener
22-Mar-10, 11:51
But it is real.
I know not everyone who does it is being malicious, those who can't argue against the facts so turn to ridiculing the person who is stating them are the ones who are malicious but there are plenty who see it as fun to put people down and want to join in. It soon spreads from thread to thread and then new threads are started just to slag someone off more and more people see it as acceptable and want to join in and then it goes way over the top.
As I have said before I have a pretty good record for getting it right by not subscribing to mainstream opinion on this forum, many of the things they put me down and slagged me off for saying turned out to be true.
When I get replies like this one (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=676708&postcount=10) for making a valid point, when two days later the Jews for Justice web site post an article making the exact same point (http://jfjfp.com/?p=11500) I made, that is just bullying.
So in other words Fred, you are a completely innocent party, with no record whatsoever of putting anyone down, insulting anyones' beliefs or opinions and have never in all of this caused offence?
Are you prepared to shoulder any responsibilty in all of this?
So in other words Fred, you are a completely innocent party, with no record whatsoever of putting anyone down, insulting anyones' beliefs or opinions and have never in all of this caused offence?
Are you prepared to shoulder any responsibilty in all of this?
Oh I see, I'm supposed to be perfect am I? If I'm not a saint it justifies all the persecution does it?
Here is a link to every post I have made containing the word "northener", have I made personal remarks about you in any of them?
http://forum.caithness.org/search.php?searchid=555636
Tell me which one was offensive.
northener
22-Mar-10, 12:31
Oh I see, I'm supposed to be perfect am I? If I'm not a saint it justifies all the persecution does it?
Here is a link to every post I have made containing the word "northener", have I made personal remarks about you in any of them?
http://forum.caithness.org/search.php?searchid=555636
Tell me which one was offensive.
Fred.
I'm not even going to bother following the link. I know you have never insulted me personally. But that wasn't the question I asked you, as you well know.
You know full well what I'm getting at.
Fred.
I'm not even going to bother following the link. I know you have never insulted me personally. But that wasn't the question I asked you, as you well know.
You know full well what I'm getting at.
Well yes, I know exactly what you were trying to do.
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 13:44
... I know not everyone who does it is being malicious, those who can't argue against the facts [my underline] so turn to ridiculing the person who is stating them are the ones who are malicious...
That's a key part of my gripe. If you'd said 'those who can't argue with the facts as I see them, or 'those who would like to dispute the veracity of such evidence as I present or who doubt the sources' I would be less scornful.
But when someone posts as 'facts' information that is at best conjecture and at worst malicious gossip, and then refuses to acknowledge that doubt may exist, that person is failing to debate.
Likewise when someone posts information on legal matters which is wrong, then defies anyone to prove it wrong even in the face of clear evidence that it IS wrong, that person is failing to play fair and deserves ridicule.
Much of what you claim as 'fact' is anything but. Much of what you propose as 'evidence' would be laughed out of a kangaroo court. And you get irate and spit the dummy. Then deny any responsibility. And accuse people of bullying.
You can't demand robust debate, then refuse to acknowledge others' arguments or counterpoints (or evidence!) and keep bleating about being bullied when people get ratty. Grow up.
northener
22-Mar-10, 16:01
Well yes, I know exactly what you were trying to do.
And that would be trying to get you to accept that the responsibility for the current situation is not purely the sole domain of 'others'.
So, I repeat my question: Are you willing to accept that you have, in the past, made derogotary remarks about other posters beliefs and opinions?
Yes or No?
I'll hold my hand up. I have said things that should not really be part of an intelligent discussion. But, as you just said, none of us are perfect.
Yes or No, Fred?
Your call.
And that would be trying to get you to accept that the responsibility for the current situation is not purely the sole domain of 'others'.
So, I repeat my question: Are you willing to accept that you have, in the past, made derogotary remarks about other posters beliefs and opinions?
Yes or No?
I'll hold my hand up. I have said things that should not really be part of an intelligent discussion. But, as you just said, none of us are perfect.
Yes or No, Fred?
Your call.
Well I think I answered this already and we established that I have never said anything derogatory about you.
If you go back to the first post you will see I said the following words
Now the odd jibe at someone during the course of a debate is part of forum life but that isn't what this is, this is constant harassment.
Have you ever known me partake of the sort of harassment I am constantly on the receiving end of?
Have you ever see me partaking in the sort of harassment you were partaking of in the "Who would appreciate an ignore thread option?" thread? You said I was as guilty of the next man when it came to unwarranted put downs and insults but am I? Where are all these unwarranted put downs and insults? Where did I ever talk about anyone in a thread they didn't even post to like you were talking about me?
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 21:32
Have you ever known me partake of the sort of harassment I am constantly on the receiving end of?
You said that anyone who disagreed with your ravings was a paedophile apoligist and torture supporter. You never ever admit you're wrong. And you never answer a question when the answer doesn't suit you. And you can't tell the difference between allegation and fact, you can't define evidence and you think there is no law against Murder in Scotland. And you won't admit you're wrong.
Stop greeting Fred, it's a bad example to be showing young Stavro.
Yoda the flump
22-Mar-10, 21:41
Question:
And that would be trying to get you to accept that the responsibility for the current situation is not purely the sole domain of 'others'.
So, I repeat my question: Are you willing to accept that you have, in the past, made derogotary remarks about other posters beliefs and opinions?
Answer:
Well I think I answered this already and we established that I have never said anything derogatory about you.
Am I missing something here?
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 21:43
He won't reply, he never does. He's afraid. Of everything.
You said that anyone who disagreed with your ravings was a paedophile apoligist and torture supporter. You never ever admit you're wrong. And you never answer a question when the answer doesn't suit you. And you can't tell the difference between allegation and fact, you can't define evidence and you think there is no law against Murder in Scotland. And you won't admit you're wrong.
Stop greeting Fred, it's a bad example to be showing young Stavro.
Where did I say that anyone who disagrees with me was a paedophile apologist and torture supporter?
Where did I say there is no law against murder in Scotland?
northener
22-Mar-10, 22:08
...... we established that I have never said anything derogatory about you.
Which we both agree on. Go back and read my question again - I never metioned me personally. I'm asking you if you are willing to say that you have insulted anyone in the past - yes or no. You have so far refused to answer that very simple question, Fred.
If you go back to the first post you will see I said the following words....
And I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly.
Have you ever known me partake of the sort of harassment I am constantly on the receiving end of?
I've never seen you bring anyone elses name into a thread that wasn't relevant. But that doesn't mean that all else is necessarily 'harassment' Fred. I've already stated that some of the attention you were getting was unwarranted, that does not make every single negative comment about you 'harassment' or 'bullying'.
Have you ever see me partaking in the sort of harassment you were partaking of in the "Who would appreciate an ignore thread option?" thread?
I'll play you at your own game now, Fred. You point out where in that thread I have harassed you. I have not mentioned your name, I have not insinuated that I was referring to you - or any other individual for that matter. None of the banter I was using on that thread can be even remotely connected to you. Period. Speak to the other people on that thread if you want that answering.
You said I was as guilty of the next man when it came to unwarranted put downs and insults but am I? Where are all these unwarranted put downs and insults?
"....Which is why if you are discussing the abuse of children the best source of information is not a paedophile and if you are discussing the killing of innocent women and children the best source of information is not a British serviceman." (18 March)
I'd say that little comment of yours is a fine example of a post that I find personally insulting and extremely inflammatory. So much so that if you'd said that to me face to face - you'd be lucky if you were still standing. And don't try to come up with some glib explanation, it won't work.
There's plenty more, Fred. I just can't be arsed to go and get them, but they're there.....
You see, the problem I have with all of this is that at no point will you accept that you are as capable of dishing out unwarranted insults as the next person. I've agreed that some comments have been out of order to say the least, but you seem to be incapable of admitting that any of this could be down to yourself. It's always 'them' and never 'us'.......
Do you remember a thread some few weeks back Fred, where you were complaining about people harassing you? The one where I outlined the reasons why you rub people up the wrong way?
Every single damn thing I said would happen, has happened.
And I don't know if you've noticed, but there's quite a few people apart from me who have said exactly the same about your arrogant attitude towards those who do not agree with you. Even on this very thread, your opinion is that you are above reproach and are to be viewed as some preacher of the 'truth' to uneducated plebs who are incapable of understanding just how right you are all the time. Unbelievable.
No attempt from you to find a common line, no attempt or agreement to find a way forward. Just 'pity me' and carry on with the high-minded 'I'm right - what could you possibly know' attitude that you usually display when you get annoyed because people differ from you.
And just to reiterate, yes, you have been unduly called. I agree with you there 100%, but if you want to be treated fairly, lose the blind arrogance that will not allow you to admit you may be occasionally wrong and as culpable as the next person when it comes to getting shirty and dishing out unwarranted insults.
This will be my last post on this. I have nothing more to say Fred and I look forward to talking to you on a less ridiculous thread.
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 22:25
Where did I say that anyone who disagrees with me was a paedophile apologist and torture supporter?
Originally Posted by Tubthumper http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=676585#post676585)
...And now you've had a chance to mull it over and you're now lumping torturers, paedophiles and the 'org bullies' together? You're a very sad man.
Please post links to evidence in the Hollie Greig case Fred. Let the people see how you're right Fred. Show them how the conspiracy gathers pace, and how we masons are victimising you...
"Well now as what you want to think at least I'm not a paedophile apologist"
That was post #129 in the 'Are British Intelligence Stupid' thread. I shall find the other one shortly.
But it is real.
I know not everyone who does it is being malicious, those who can't argue against the facts so turn to ridiculing the person who is stating them are the ones who are malicious but there are plenty who see it as fun to put people down and want to join in. It soon spreads from thread to thread and then new threads are started just to slag someone off more and more people see it as acceptable and want to join in and then it goes way over the top.
As I have said before I have a pretty good record for getting it right by not subscribing to mainstream opinion on this forum, many of the things they put me down and slagged me off for saying turned out to be true.
When I get replies like this one (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=676708&postcount=10) for making a valid point, when two days later the Jews for Justice web site post an article making the exact same point (http://jfjfp.com/?p=11500) I made, that is just bullying.
You called me BERKisman Fred I did not call you FredA did I? get it right..
I'm just back from Inverness (saw no one in Portgower, either going or coming) But just to refresh your memory Fred as you might have missed #18 your comments?
"Grow up."
"You just don't listen do you?"
"You just don't get it do you?"
"You seem to be suffering from delusions of grandeur."
"Oh I enjoy intelligent debate, if I can find someone intelligent to debate with".
"Strange how people who can't handle the truth revert to a mental age of twelve."
"Now have you got enough intelligence to open your eyes and see the world as it really is"
"The we is the people of Britain, wasn't that obvious? I'll try and use shorter words for you."
"The only reason people like berkisman(sic) try to ridicule it is because it makes it too easy for people to show they're talking out of their backsides"
"I am anti torture, anti paedophiles, anti the killing of innocent civilians especially women and children. But I think those who are in favour (my underlining) of these things should really present their arguments rather than just trying to shout me down with personal abuse."
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 22:38
Where did I say there is no law against murder in Scotland?
Post #194 in the 'Drug Dealers' thread
'...like the law against murder, there has never been an act of parliament making murder illegal, it is illegal because it is the law not because it is a statute passed by parliament.'
Actually I must admit you didn't actually say there was no law against murder. However this statement was a key part of the garbage you were spouting about law and statute, when it was blatantly obvious even to me you were raving.
So I'm sorry for getting the order of your endless slavers wrong.
That 'sorry' is a lot more than we'll get out of you I'll bet.
Originally Posted by Tubthumper http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=676585#post676585)
...And now you've had a chance to mull it over and you're now lumping torturers, paedophiles and the 'org bullies' together? You're a very sad man.
Please post links to evidence in the Hollie Greig case Fred. Let the people see how you're right Fred. Show them how the conspiracy gathers pace, and how we masons are victimising you...
"Well now as what you want to think at least I'm not a paedophile apologist"
That was post #129 in the 'Are British Intelligence Stupid' thread. I shall find the other one shortly.
You've quoted me saying I am not a paedophile apologist not me saying that anyone who disagrees with me is a paedophile apologist.
You also quoted yourself calling me a "very sad man", that's you making a direct personal insult against me.
You called me BERKisman Fred I did not call you FredA did I? get it right..
I've only just realised your user name isn't Berkisman eek
Post #194 in the 'Drug Dealers' thread
'...like the law against murder, there has never been an act of parliament making murder illegal, it is illegal because it is the law not because it is a statute passed by parliament.'
Actually I must admit you didn't actually say there was no law against murder. However this statement was a key part of the garbage you were spouting about law and statute, when it was blatantly obvious even to me you were raving.
So I'm sorry for getting the order of your endless slavers wrong.
That 'sorry' is a lot more than we'll get out of you I'll bet.
You said "you think there is no law against Murder in Scotland".
Then you quote me saying that murder is illegal "it is illegal because it is the law".
You claimed I said the exact opposite of what I said.
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 22:47
You've quoted me saying I am not a paedophile apologist not me saying that anyone who disagrees with me is a paedophile apologist.
You also quoted yourself calling me a "very sad man", that's you making a direct personal insult against me.
The comment indicated to me (and I have no doubt to other 'real' people) that you considered anyone who chose to disagree with you was a Paedophile Apologist. Especially when examined in association with the one Bekisman pulled up. Stop squirming Fred.
And as to my comment about you being a very sad man, I already said it and I don't think I'm wrong.
Now how about addressing the abuse you've offered that bekisman has taken the time to bring together. Rather damning evidence that you are in denial and talk mince.
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 22:48
You said "you think there is no law against Murder in Scotland".
Then you quote me saying that murder is illegal "it is illegal because it is the law".
You claimed I said the exact opposite of what I said.
And in the argument at the time, you jumped on me for quoting what you'd just said. And you also said I was too ignorant to understand.
You rave, and you squirm.
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 22:49
The points remain Fred, no matter how hard you try to squirm out. You accused people of supporting paedophiles. You said bad things about people. You think we're all stupid, don't you?
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 22:50
"I am anti torture, anti paedophiles, anti the killing of innocent civilians especially women and children. But I think those who are in favour (my underlining) of these things should really present their arguments rather than just trying to shout me down with personal abuse."
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 22:52
You said "you think there is no law against Murder in Scotland".
Then you quote me saying that murder is illegal "it is illegal because it is the law".
You claimed I said the exact opposite of what I said.
Then I apologised for getting the sense wrong. Don't crow in triumph Fred just because you've found a little fault, address the main issue, the abuse you've dished out.
Where did I say that anyone who disagrees with me was a paedophile apologist and torture supporter?
"I am anti torture, anti paedophiles, anti the killing of innocent civilians especially women and children. But I think those who are in favour (my underlining) of these things should really present their arguments rather than just trying to shout me down with personal abuse."
I'm just back from Inverness (saw no one in Portgower, either going or coming) But just to refresh your memory Fred as you might have missed #18 your comments?
"Grow up."
"You just don't listen do you?"
"You just don't get it do you?"
"You seem to be suffering from delusions of grandeur."
"Oh I enjoy intelligent debate, if I can find someone intelligent to debate with".
"Strange how people who can't handle the truth revert to a mental age of twelve."
"Now have you got enough intelligence to open your eyes and see the world as it really is"
"The we is the people of Britain, wasn't that obvious? I'll try and use shorter words for you."
"The only reason people like berkisman(sic) try to ridicule it is because it makes it too easy for people to show they're talking out of their backsides"
"I am anti torture, anti paedophiles, anti the killing of innocent civilians especially women and children. But I think those who are in favour (my underlining) of these things should really present their arguments rather than just trying to shout me down with personal abuse."
As I have already said, the misspelling of your name was a genuine mistake, Berk and Berkis are common names but Bekis isn't.
You didn't really think I would do anything so petty did you?
As for the rest it looks like the usual cut and thrust normal in a debate, not the sort of victimisation I made it clear at the outset this thread is about.
Boozeburglar
22-Mar-10, 23:28
As for the rest it looks like the usual cut and thrust normal in a debate, not the sort of victimisation I made it clear at the outset this thread is about.
Except if it was you on the receiving end of your own words you would be complaining it was bullying.
"I am anti torture, anti paedophiles, anti the killing of innocent civilians especially women and children. But I think those who are in favour (my underlining) of these things should really present their arguments rather than just trying to shout me down with personal abuse."
I posted that on the 16th of March at three minutes to midnight, that was the same day I had to close the "Hollie Greig and The Palestine Telegraph" thread because of deliberate disruption by another user and the day there was a thread started specifically for the purpose of being personally abusive to me by the same user.
But it still doesn't say that anyone who disagrees with me is a paedophile apologist and torture supporter, loads of people disagree with me I don't think they are all paedophile apologists and torture supporters.
Tubthumper
22-Mar-10, 23:57
I posted that on the 16th of March at three minutes to midnight, that was the same day I had to close the "Hollie Greig and The Palestine Telegraph" thread because of deliberate disruption by another user and the day there was a thread started specifically for the purpose of being personally abusive to me by the same user.
Nah, you shut the thread because you couldn't defend your position, and you couldn't provide any evidence and you lost. You conveniently read it as personal abuse.
But it still doesn't say that anyone who disagrees with me is a paedophile apologist and torture supporter, loads of people disagree with me I don't think they are all paedophile apologists and torture supporters.
Detail. So who are 'those who support torture, paedophiles and the killing of innocent civilians' then Fred.
Metalattakk
23-Mar-10, 00:01
that was the same day I had to close the "Hollie Greig and The Palestine Telegraph" thread
LOL! You didn't have to close it fred, you chose to close it because you couldn't justify your rabid support of a witch-hunt.
You were found out, fred, fair and square. Away and cry in the corner and leave us in peace, eh?
Except if it was you on the receiving end of your own words you would be complaining it was bullying.
Little old me bullying all those people all by myself?
Boozeburglar
23-Mar-10, 00:40
No.
I said you would complain it was bullying.
Completely different from actually being bullied.
No.
I said you would complain it was bullying.
Completely different from actually being bullied.
Me and you have had our differences of opinion in the past, heated arguments even but have I ever followed you around the forum replying to every post you make just to make derogatory remarks? Do I start threads just to insult you? Do I talk about you in threads you aren't even posting to? Was I doing any of those things in any of the quotes Bekisman posted?
Boozeburglar
23-Mar-10, 01:00
Even if you had I would not consider it bullying.
You talk like a little kid.
Is this thread not drifting towards the realms of a self fulfilling prophecy.
Or is it just me?
Niall Fernie
23-Mar-10, 11:15
As this thread seems to have run its course I'd like to add a point that I think has been, and is, missed by a few of our regular posters.
By posting regulalrly on a forum you become a publicly known figure. Just as anyone who regulalry writes to our local newspapers, you become well known. Just as someone who casts their hat into the political arena and states their veiwpoint on many topics, you become well known.
As far as I can see there is no division between well known figures other than the scale of the number of people who know of them.
I have obviously seen first hand what is said about a person that would be generally considered a public figure and known that these things are false.
People feel that it is fine to discuss the likes of myself and my father, my fellow admins and mods in public places with no real thought to how we may receive what is said about us. Indeed my father is mentioned on many threads on this forum with relation to his being a councillor. You'll also see mentions of him in the local press and their letters pages. I am mentioned on this forum (and several other places) in all manner of kind or derogitory ways. The mods similarly are brought up from time to time without real consideration given to how they may feel about this.
I learned my lesson a few years ago and now realise that people are entitled to their opinion of people who are very public with their views, which is the reason I tend not to post them very often. Also I think that people who realise they have a public persona learn better methods of coping with these opinions. When I was first attacked online for they way this forum was run things got out of control very quickly, other web sites appeared, tempers were frayed and at one point the police were even involved. These days, I simply ignore it.
I realise that anyone who disagrees with me is perfectly entitled to go and have a good rant about it on their website, even to gather together lots of of poeple with the same opinion of me and start a forum. Well I stopped reading it years ago and guess what? It no longer bothers me. I realise that I've got a public profile of sorts and that entitles whoever comes across me online to think whatever they like about me, right or wrong. If anyone was to be in direct contact with me then I'd like to think I could change their perception of me but perhaps not, a shame but hey, that's life.
Perhaps a few of the posters on this forum should compare themselves to some of the characters who regularly write letters to our local press. If you were to compare a letter writer to say, a 1k orger, taking each post as a letter then the orger would have been writing to the groat for over 19 years. Some letter writers in the Groat have definatly become public figures as their name has appeared again and again for years.
Like I mentioned earlier its a question of scale as to how public you are, if you post a lot then you will be more regarded as a public figure and as we know public figures just have to put up with what people think of them and can only try as hard as they can be bothered to make the opinions about them positive ones.
Fred, You have had very little support on this thread (which should tell you something) even some who initially were sympathetic have changed their view.
If we are to take anything positive from this thread (unless you like arguing for the sake of it) it is for us all to temper our language and attitude, just a little bit.
Do as you would be done
I've delayed posting on this thread to see how it ran but have to post now to thank Niall for putting things in perspective in a well thought out post.
PS I liked the comparison of org posts to Groat letters. I'm now a public figure. Yee haa :D
Well put Niall, I totally agree with all you have posted, I too in the past have been ridiculed and vilified and probably still am on other web sites, who have latched themselves on to the Org, and maybe they had just cause. I did used to rise to the bait, but now I could not care less what is said.
Did I consider myself bullied....No, is a web site for goodness sake not real life.
Fred, You have had very little support on this thread (which should tell you something) even some who initially were sympathetic have changed their view.
If we are to take anything positive from this thread (unless you like arguing for the sake of it) it is for us all to temper our language and attitude, just a little bit.
Do as you would be done
There was one section of the forum I wasn't expecting to get any support from.
As for doing as you would be done, do I follow people around the forum making abusive replies to everything they post? Do I make comments about other users in threads they aren't even posting to? Do I start threads just to insult other users?
Boozeburglar
23-Mar-10, 15:03
do I follow people around the forum making abusive replies to everything they post? Do I make comments about other users in threads they aren't even posting to? Do I start threads just to insult other users?
Fred, your neat cul-de-sac avoids the issue well.
The issue is the nature of things being said to others.
From my recollection, you are as guilty as anyone else of making personal, insulting, remarks and insinuations. Regardless of the context in which you have posted them.
As the one complaining so vociferously, you really are obliged to change your ways if you really expect others to follow suit.
Or do you prefer it this way, so you can continue claiming persecution?
Why can't someone post to this forum without being subjected to personal abuse?
This morning I look in and find personal abusive remarks being made about me on a thread I don't even contribute to yet again.
I bet you wouldn't have kicked off if you had logged on to see it happening to somebody else.
This is a 'poor me' thread and nothing more. This isn't an attack. It's fact.
Why would you let something that was posted in a forum bother you to the point where you've made enemies out of most of its users anyway? That's exactly what this forum isn't for. (Am I right?)
Try doing what I do and let it all go over you're head. I find I spend a lot more time smiling and a lot less time being miserable. :D
And if you're still wondering why people say what they say, try having a look at yourself. Sometimes we all (and I mean 'we all') deserve a bit of a slagging for something we've said. If we can't accept this fact, we're knackered.
Tighsonas4
02-Apr-10, 14:28
I think it's important Bazeye, I recently returned to the forum after not posting for a while and noticed that many of the users who used to stick to the facts of a discussion and were a pleasure to debate with had left while those who always resort to personal abuse are still here.
as org is not working,asking for me to log in when all feady loged in help'
The reason I left the org all in one thread on here just read and look at it sad
As this thread seems to have run its course I'd like to add a point that I think has been, and is, missed by a few of our regular posters.
By posting regulalrly on a forum you become a publicly known figure. Just as anyone who regulalry writes to our local newspapers, you become well known. Just as someone who casts their hat into the political arena and states their veiwpoint on many topics, you become well known.
As far as I can see there is no division between well known figures other than the scale of the number of people who know of them.
I have obviously seen first hand what is said about a person that would be generally considered a public figure and known that these things are false.
People feel that it is fine to discuss the likes of myself and my father, my fellow admins and mods in public places with no real thought to how we may receive what is said about us. Indeed my father is mentioned on many threads on this forum with relation to his being a councillor. You'll also see mentions of him in the local press and their letters pages. I am mentioned on this forum (and several other places) in all manner of kind or derogitory ways. The mods similarly are brought up from time to time without real consideration given to how they may feel about this.
I learned my lesson a few years ago and now realise that people are entitled to their opinion of people who are very public with their views, which is the reason I tend not to post them very often. Also I think that people who realise they have a public persona learn better methods of coping with these opinions. When I was first attacked online for they way this forum was run things got out of control very quickly, other web sites appeared, tempers were frayed and at one point the police were even involved. These days, I simply ignore it.
I realise that anyone who disagrees with me is perfectly entitled to go and have a good rant about it on their website, even to gather together lots of of poeple with the same opinion of me and start a forum. Well I stopped reading it years ago and guess what? It no longer bothers me. I realise that I've got a public profile of sorts and that entitles whoever comes across me online to think whatever they like about me, right or wrong. If anyone was to be in direct contact with me then I'd like to think I could change their perception of me but perhaps not, a shame but hey, that's life.
Perhaps a few of the posters on this forum should compare themselves to some of the characters who regularly write letters to our local press. If you were to compare a letter writer to say, a 1k orger, taking each post as a letter then the orger would have been writing to the groat for over 19 years. Some letter writers in the Groat have definatly become public figures as their name has appeared again and again for years.
Like I mentioned earlier its a question of scale as to how public you are, if you post a lot then you will be more regarded as a public figure and as we know public figures just have to put up with what people think of them and can only try as hard as they can be bothered to make the opinions about them positive ones.
Sorry, that was too long, Dude.
Too long! - if something needs said, it is surely better to get across all the reasons you take a particular point of view.
The Drunken Duck
03-Apr-10, 08:44
I saw a glimpse of Fred's humour lately.
It was surprising to me and quite welcome to be honest, I want to see more of it. Because that guy was far more appealing than the one I had seen previously. Fred, stop trying to be a Maverick and join us mere mortals for a bit of banter. Because making me laugh once made a FAR bigger impression than all your previous posts combined.
As for so called "Internet Bullying", sorry I just dont buy it because after all ..
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8017/80474932.jpg
A very good post Niall, but I just want to say something about the section below.
People feel that it is fine to discuss the likes of myself and my father, my fellow admins and mods in public places with no real thought to how we may receive what is said about us. Indeed my father is mentioned on many threads on this forum with relation to his being a councillor. You'll also see mentions of him in the local press and their letters pages. I am mentioned on this forum (and several other places) in all manner of kind or derogitory ways. The mods similarly are brought up from time to time without real consideration given to how they may feel about this.
You say people feel that it is fine to discuss you and other admins and mods on here without thought about your feelings. I mean no offence with this, but to that I would say tough. You have put yourselves in positions of power and as such should expect people to react to things you do or say, and not always in a polite way. Our ability to whine, complain, and moan is one of the benefits of living in a society such as our own. This probably applies to your father more than yourself, as he is an elected official who certainly doesn't represent everyone's views, and may not even represent the majorities views (I do not know the numbers relating to his election). When people are in positions of power and can make decisions that propose to judge other peoples actions, then surely our ability to complain is the least that we deserve.
Tubthumper
03-Apr-10, 12:20
...Our ability to whine, complain, and moan is one of the benefits of living in a society such as our own.
...When people are in positions of power and can make decisions that propose to judge other peoples actions, then surely our ability to complain is the least that we deserve.
I think that's one of the problems, we've got so used to whining and moaning that few people actually do anything any more. And no-one has noticed!
I think that's one of the problems, we've got so used to whining and moaning that few people actually do anything any more. And no-one has noticed!
Maybe, but as I said, that's our right. Don't like it, then don't be in a position of power, which nobody is forcing them to be.
Tubthumper
03-Apr-10, 13:27
Maybe, but as I said, that's our right. Don't like it, then don't be in a position of power, which nobody is forcing them to be.
Then if everyone chooses to avoid positions of power, so they don't face the whining and moaning, no-one will do anything. Then you won't have anything to moan and whine about, what will you do then?
Choose from:
(a) Be happy, your task is complete
(b) Whine and moan cos you have nothing to whine and moan about
(c) Go out and do stuff, even if it means people will whine and moan at you
Then if everyone chooses to avoid positions of power, so they don't face the whining and moaning, no-one will do anything.
Can't say I agree with that so I wont choose from your options.
Tubthumper
03-Apr-10, 14:20
Fair enough. Our democratic process means exactly what you say; anyone who aspires (or volunteers!) for power must take the criticism on the chin.
My point was that a lot of folk (even when they contribute nothing themselves) seem to do only the whining & moaning now, and they do it so well that everyone feels it's not worth the effort seeking/ volunteering for power.
Who would be a teacher? Every parent is on your case because their child is special. You're not teaching properly, look at the league tables. My child's being bullied, why don't you sort it out? My child bullying? How dare you...? It was better when we had the strap/ How dare you lay hands on my child??
Who would be a policeman? What are you doing about vandalism/ how dare you kick my Johnny's erse? Why do you harrass speeding motorists/ Why didn't you stop my daughter being killed in a car crash by a beannie-hatted erse in a Saxo?
Swiftly followed by a trip to the Police/ management/ solicitor/ compensation claim free hotline...
Sad isn't it?
Fair enough. Our democratic process means exactly what you say; anyone who aspires (or volunteers!) for power must take the criticism on the chin.
My point was that a lot of folk (even when they contribute nothing themselves) seem to do only the whining & moaning now, and they do it so well that everyone feels it's not worth the effort seeking/ volunteering for power.
Who would be a teacher? Every parent is on your case because their child is special. You're not teaching properly, look at the league tables. My child's being bullied, why don't you sort it out? My child bullying? How dare you...? It was better when we had the strap/ How dare you lay hands on my child??
Who would be a policeman? What are you doing about vandalism/ how dare you kick my Johnny's erse? Why do you harrass speeding motorists/ Why didn't you stop my daughter being killed in a car crash by a beannie-hatted erse in a Saxo?
Swiftly followed by a trip to the Police/ management/ solicitor/ compensation claim free hotline...
I understand what you're saying and it's a good point.
Sad isn't it?
It is indeed.
Those of you who feel there is a lot of bullying going on from time to time, and I'm not trying to suggest it doesn't happen, should perhaps step in at the time it is happening.
When it appears that a member is engaging in bullying there is no reason why others should not point out on the thread at the time what is being done. A simple and polite post pointing out what is occurring, ensuring that the post itself is not aggressive or bullying, will often do the trick by drawing everybody's attention to it.
That will not only point out immediately that a person is behaving as a bully but also lets the person being bullied know that they are no isolated, that others have noticed what is going on and find such behaviour unacceptable. Nipping bullying in the bud is often the most effective way of dealing with it.
Tubthumper
03-Apr-10, 15:17
Jaws, I agree with what you're saying.
It's worth remembering that what has been claimed as 'bullying' on the org recently has been in the main argument and robust discussion (including humour) followed by disagreement, flat refusal to see or acknowledge another point of view, and abuse. From more than one side. It's not bullying just because someone shouts that it is.
And like in a school playground, sometimes people dish it out but when it comes back, or they're feeling isolated or they're losing, they cry 'bully'.
By all means point out when 'bullying' is happening. That way, all sides can pause, take stock of their own contribution and move on without crying or causing distress.
:)
Maybe, but as I said, that's our right. Don't like it, then don't be in a position of power, which nobody is forcing them to be.
That's very true Alan16. The owners of the Caithness dot Org Website and the associated message forums have a choice here as do the Moderators. As you say, nobody is forcing them.
Maybe Bill/Niall should just unplug the connection for once and for all. I'm sure their lives would be all the more peaceful and enriched for it. It would, however, deprive a lot of folk, including Ex-Pats, a connection with the Caithness they knew, loved, hated, miss.... It would also prevent a lot of others having an outlet for thoughts, opinions, rants, raves etc.
Do you think we need a poll?
That's very true Alan16. The owners of the Caithness dot Org Website and the associated message forums have a choice here as do the Moderators. As you say, nobody is forcing them.
I knew this was leading up to a but...
Maybe Bill/Niall should just unplug the connection for once and for all. I'm sure their lives would be all the more peaceful and enriched for it. It would, however, deprive a lot of folk, including Ex-Pats, a connection with the Caithness they knew, loved, hated, miss.... It would also prevent a lot of others having an outlet for thoughts, opinions, rants, raves etc.
That is one possibility. The other is that they hand the "power" over to other people, people who want to be in said position.
Do you think we need a poll?
We always need polls. It's like oxygen to orgers, or so it seems...
I'll not bore everyone by breaking your post down with the Multi-quote facility. I know how it works. :)
But did I say "but"?
Is "power" in your mind the issue then?
My breathing is fine so plenty of oxygen here. Go PM Crayola if you need help with the Poll. ;)
I'll not bore everyone by breaking your post down with the Multi-quote facility. I know how it works. :)
Picking everyone's posts apart, and down to tiny parts means I can make them say what I want, so I can say something funny in return. Ingenious!
But did I say "but"?
As close as.
Is "power" in your mind the issue then?
No, it's that people in a position of power should expect whatever gets thrown at them.
My breathing is fine so plenty of oxygen here.
Not too much I hope. That stuff will kill you.
Go PM Crayola if you need help with the Poll. ;)
I'm not that desperate for one just yet!
You are one cheeky, young beggar and will probably go far. I'm still ROFL'ing too much to even throw together the worst of replies to your post. Well done. :lol:
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