View Full Version : another one!!!!!!
onecalledk
05-Mar-10, 23:28
another female nursery worker , when is it going to end ????!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8551081.stm
K
I do not like the labelling of "nursery worker" This woman was a volounteer and therefore would have never been left on her own with any child in the nursery.
This does not make what she has done to the wee boy any better and i am just glad that with this conviction she will not be able to hurt another child.
Male or female whoever hurts children in such a way that she has is just plain sick and to me there is only one place for them.
When parents start taking responsibility for their own children and look after them themselves instead of foisitng them off on to someone else at the earliest opportunity?
Yes I know some parents have to work but many others need only work to afford luxuries.
When parents start taking responsibility for their own children and look after them themselves instead of foisitng them off on to someone else at the earliest opportunity?
Yes I know some parents have to work but many others need only work to afford luxuries.
The very sad truth suzyq is some parents can do just as bad or even worse as we keep hearing in the news all to regularly.
Parents have a right to go out and work and expect to have trustworthy childcare.
Also, even though i work now. When my son was at nursery i didn't work but my son still went so that he was better prepared for school. Its also good for the kids to socialise.
Also not sure if i picked this up properly from the story but by the sounds of it... none of what she is charged with happened where she was volunteering. It happened at a separate time.
Also not sure if i picked this up properly from the story but by the sounds of it... none of what she is charged with happened where she was volunteering. It happened at a separate time.
That makes more sense - it says in the article that she was never unsupervised in the nursery. So who's child was it and how did she gain access?
That makes more sense - it says in the article that she was never unsupervised in the nursery. So who's child was it and how did she gain access?
It also makes me wonder Leanne about her own kids. Did the article not say she had 9 of them. If thats the case then maybe somone just trusted her with their child, people don't tend to think that they will be a danger if they already have their own kids :(
Why dont people who are going to be parents have to have a disclosure check? What better way for some paedo to get access to a child than to have their own? That's what happened with that blanchfield bloke who was involved with Vannessa George the playgroup worker. Children are not always neccesarily better being with their parents.
[disgust] This case along with many others shows how the system of checks by the Criminal Records Bureau or Disclosure Scotland is little more than a money making scam. The bureau claims to “help protect children and vulnerable adults by providing a first-class service to support organisations recruiting people into positions of trust”. It’s not enough to have one check done but subjects will have to have a check and certificate for each organisation/group/club they want to work with, thereby increasing the revenue stream for the department.
All this begins to unravel if the subject has no prior criminal record or has recently arrived from outside the UK. They will effectively ‘slip under the radar’ because the recording system in some countries in Europe and Asia are at the very least suspect.
[disgust] Unfortunately at the end of the day anyone inclined to abuse children and vulnerable adults will find a way.
why would anybody do this it makes my stomach turn,lock her up and throw the key away!!
lets think about that.. we have to get permits to have children.. how bad is that? whats scary i could see that happening. there is already the one child rule in china. lets just take it a step further.. lets screen everyone that wants to have a baby.. and a panel somewhere will decided wheter or not you are good enough to breed. if you break the law and get preg. you can face termination of fetus, prison time and a large fine.
all of this in the name of whats best for everyone.
(shakes head) there are sick people out there.. they have something very very wrong with them. lets not paint everyone with that brush. there is a tiny tiny percentage of sickos out there in comparison of everyone else.
something needs to be done, but what i dont know.
i do know that the system is struggling now.
but the above is not the answer.
reg. pedophiles on a national reg. Yes
have two adults with children and vunerable people.. to cover every one? Yes
rehaul the entire social work system.. add more workers.. put more money into it and education to where we can actually get work done... yes
hire people who actually care about the children they are working with.. BIG YES
what i dont get is why people who dont like kids or are indeferent go into work like this.
it is not just a job, it is a calling.
i could not tell you how many tachers, childcare workers, social workers.. ect. i have seen in my time. who were so jaded and indeferent working day in and day out.. just because its a pay check.
its a shame and unfortunatly an everyday occurance
Why dont people who are going to be parents have to have a disclosure check? What better way for some paedo to get access to a child than to have their own? That's what happened with that blanchfield bloke who was involved with Vannessa George the playgroup worker. Children are not always neccesarily better being with their parents.
The problem with that is that nobody can force a woman to have an abortion so if she is found to be completly unsuitable as a mother for whatever reason then all they can do is remove the child from her at birth.
Also alot of people change after their child is born. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst. As an example you could have a doting mother or father throughout pregnancy but as soon as baby is near due date or is born they walk out of the child's life.
A disclosure check would only come up with a criminal record and it would be the peadophilles that would have their bairns removed from them but only if they already ahd a conviction for it.
why would anybody do this it makes my stomach turn,lock her up and throw the key away!!
I completly agree but i would say that for people who do this to children we should bring back capital punishment but only when it has been proved without a doubt that thye are guilty as this woman has been found and has admitted.
This woman has been arrested in connection with the paedophile ring involving the other nursery worker Vanessa George.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6872780.ece
what i dont get is why people who dont like kids or are indeferent go into work like this.
it is not just a job, it is a calling.
i could not tell you how many tachers, childcare workers, social workers.. ect. i have seen in my time. who were so jaded and indeferent working day in and day out.. just because its a pay check.
its a shame and unfortunatly an everyday occurance
Yes i agree with you as i have seen this myself. Or you have the childcare workers that like the good bits and despise the hard bits. I have known a couple of people that have liked the job as the kids are cute but hate it as its hard work at times when there is challenging behaviour at foot.
In the case of Victoria Climbe someone who was dealing with her case accepted her abusers excuse of why she was not there to be seen as she ahd scapies. The woman was too afraid of catching scabies to want to question it and demand that the lass was there. I found that disgusting. That was another reason why that poor lassie was failed.
Children need people that care and who want the best for them no matter what.
When parents start taking responsibility for their own children and look after them themselves instead of foisitng them off on to someone else at the earliest opportunity?
Yes I know some parents have to work but many others need only work to afford luxuries.
Not all children go to Nursery just because their parents work, children need to learn to interact with other children from a young age to help prepare them for school, children that never go to Nursery or get the chance to interact with other children can either grow up far to quick as they are only use to adult company or if left to play by themselves don't know how to interact or share and become withdrawn, especially children with no siblings.
so you see its not always about money, its about child development aswell
Its just a shame that there are so many people out there who are willing to prey on defenceless children :(
i remember when i was younger and worked with 3-5 year olds.. i loved it.. the kids were very special to me.. but on the flip side.. i ended up with lice 2-3 times a year, couldnt tell you how many times i had to deal with fifths disease (hand foot and mouth) was always picking up something from the little ones.. and well when i wasnt cleaning up spew poop or other weird things.. it was great..
you do have to be able to deal with any and all personal issues going on in a childs life. Be able to offer comfort to said child, and at the same time remain professional. dont get me wrong, there were times that i wanted to wring certain parents necks.. but all you could do was report it.
its not easy work, and if your not dedicated then you dont need to be there.
it makes me feel angry some sad sick people out there
roadbowler
06-Mar-10, 13:50
must say i pretty much agree with suzyq. Agree with brandy tho too. Parents need to take more responsibility for their children. I don't understand how its become nearly compulsory to dish off children to someone else to take care of at such a young age. It seems to be getting younger and younger too. All the disclosures and police checks will never be able to weed out all the people who should not be in charge of children. We have people screaming and shouting about how horrendous some of the schools, nurseries and etc are but, at the end of the day their children are their responsibility. Judging by my own experiences and certain goings on over the years i'm not convinced the local authority are entirely competent to take care of children properly in these environments. People always bring up the socialisation issue but, i ask, how is it normal or natural in any way to group children by their age especially starting so young and expect them to develop proper social skills to enable them to communicate and interact properly with people of all ages? I find most young people in their late teens and early twenties these days have yet to grow up, nevermind growing up too quickly.
This situation can apply to kids of all ages & in different enviroments, how many teachers, police officers, priests etc have been charged with child abuse offences over the years.
If we were to keep our children away from such situations we would have to keep them by our sides 24/7.
The way the world is going now with so many warped people around is there anywhere that is truly safe for kids, a high percentage of kids suffer abuse of all kinds at the hands of family members or close family friends, so where exactly do you draw the line. Yes parents are responsible for their children's care & well being, but the sad fact is that they are never going to be able to protect them 24/7 they can only try their best.
Not all children go to Nursery just because their parents work, children need to learn to interact with other children from a young age to help prepare them for school, children that never go to Nursery or get the chance to interact with other children can either grow up far to quick as they are only use to adult company or if left to play by themselves don't know how to interact or share and become withdrawn, especially children with no siblings.
so you see its not always about money, its about child development aswell
Child Development????? If children go to nursery to interact with other children and to prepare them for school etc. etc. Why is it then that a significant number of children arrive in Reception class able to eat only with their fingers, can't chew food properly and are not even properly toilet trained? Do the parents really think it's the schools responsibility to teach them these basic skills?
roadbowler
06-Mar-10, 15:45
hi sam, yea, let's not forget politicians either. The list is staggering. 24/7 no you can't you're right however, parents have zero control on how children are treated, taught and dealt with once they relinquish those responsibilities of their children and hand them to the nursery or schools. Essentially, that is what happens. We've seen how that happens, the full realisation of loss of control and relinquishment of responsiblity in our very own community here even in caithness. 'Conventional' education systems are a new thing, nurseries even more recent. We haven't seen less social problems, we've seen more. Even when conventional schooling first started we must remember it was the least favoured option for a multitude of reasons. Gronnuck is right, i think school is seen as a babysitting service when that isn't what it is about, or shouldn't be about anyways. Look at the cuts they are making in education at the moment. I find this unbelieveable. In a situation where the education system which is already pretty dire in my opinion is taking a back seat to paid lunches for councillors or pay period. Somethings very wrong and i don't see it getting much better. I personally think if parents were given more say and control in the education system we'd be seeing less of the situations of the kind that this thread is about. Like i say, the current system is not competent. It's a big machine with lots of loose and rusty cogs, lots of things bound to go wrong and now they want to withold the oil for this machine to save a few pounds? We're in trouble.
“Parents have a right to go out and work and expect to have trustworthy childcare.”
No sorry but children’s rights take precedence over their parents every time and children have the right to be cared for by their own parents not some unrelated surrogate.
I have no objections to parents having a career but I do believe that a full time stay-at-home mum or dad is a career in itself - and a very worthwhile one.
It’s also good for the kids to socialise.
Not all children go to Nursery just because their parents work, children need to learn to interact with other children from a young age to help prepare them for school,
Totally agree with this BUT parents are in too much of a hurry to dump their children on someone else as soon as possible, for as long as possible and in the first available space.
The emphasis these days seems to be on quantity of care not quality. This leads to hurried application processes with child care facilities accepting employees with inadequate vetting, training and most importantly supervision.
I’ve recently discovered how easy it is for child care facilities to ‘fake it’ for OFSTED reports. If in doubt check out OFSTED reports for facilities you already know of. I’ve recently had to do this for a number of registered child care facilities and to be quite frank on at least 50% of these I had to double check I had the correct report. Two in particular did not seem to bear any resemblance at all to the actual quality and standards of care.
Child Development????? If children go to nursery to interact with other children and to prepare them for school etc. etc. Why is it then that a significant number of children arrive in Reception class able to eat only with their fingers, can't chew food properly and are not even properly toilet trained? Do the parents really think it's the schools responsibility to teach them these basic skills?
Or even be able to sit at a table - I think we may have very similar experiences.
WARNING - From this point on is probably not for the sensitive or precious - and I don’t intend to be offensive to working parents BUT someone has to say it -
If parents weren’t in such a hurry to abdicate responsibility for day-to-day care of their children some of these cases could have been detected at much earlier stages.
Call it a mother’s instinct / body language or whatever but a mother who knows their child well in all conditions and circumstances will recognise a problem at a much earlier stage than one whose time with their children is limited. It’s OK compensating for leaving your child in care facilities by having so-called ‘quality time’ but by its nature it masks an awful lot of problems that would only be recognised in a routine everyday environment.
P.S For mother - also read father or whatever.
[quote=suzyq;671472]“Parents have a right to go out and work and expect to have trustworthy childcare.”
No sorry but children’s rights take precedence over their parents every time and children have the right to be cared for by their own parents not some unrelated surrogate.
I have no objections to parents having a career but I do believe that a full time stay-at-home mum or dad is a career in itself - and a very worthwhile one.
I am certainly not saying that being a full time parent is not a career in itself and i too believe that a child should be with one of their parents for as long as possilbe but i also believe that it is each parents right to go back to work when they want to if that is their choice and therefore they should have the right to have trustworthy childcare.
I did not go back to work full time until my child was just going into primary 3 and now he is only with a childminder for a couple of hours a day and i certainly do not see his childminder as a surrogate. He knows who is parents are.
I have no objections to parents having a career but I do believe that a full time stay-at-home mum or dad is a career in itself - and a very worthwhile one
If parents weren’t in such a hurry to abdicate responsibility for day-to-day care of their children some of these cases could have been detected at much earlier stages.
The cost of housing now adays means that it is unfeasable for one person to stay at home in a young family without claiming 'social'. Think purchasing a house - if you take the 'average' salary as £25k, even if you got a 4x mortgage you would be struggling to find a house cheap enough to purchase... With the cost of housing as it is in today's society both parents may have to work. Yes you fork out for childcare, but most are eligible for childcare vouchers/working family tax credit. If one stays at home it would be impossible financially...
onecalledk
06-Mar-10, 18:22
“Parents have a right to go out and work and expect to have trustworthy childcare.”
No sorry but children’s rights take precedence over their parents every time and children have the right to be cared for by their own parents not some unrelated surrogate.
I have no objections to parents having a career but I do believe that a full time stay-at-home mum or dad is a career in itself - and a very worthwhile one.
It’s also good for the kids to socialise.
Not all children go to Nursery just because their parents work, children need to learn to interact with other children from a young age to help prepare them for school,
Totally agree with this BUT parents are in too much of a hurry to dump their children on someone else as soon as possible, for as long as possible and in the first available space.
The emphasis these days seems to be on quantity of care not quality. This leads to hurried application processes with child care facilities accepting employees with inadequate vetting, training and most importantly supervision.
I’ve recently discovered how easy it is for child care facilities to ‘fake it’ for OFSTED reports. If in doubt check out OFSTED reports for facilities you already know of. I’ve recently had to do this for a number of registered child care facilities and to be quite frank on at least 50% of these I had to double check I had the correct report. Two in particular did not seem to bear any resemblance at all to the actual quality and standards of care.
Child Development????? If children go to nursery to interact with other children and to prepare them for school etc. etc. Why is it then that a significant number of children arrive in Reception class able to eat only with their fingers, can't chew food properly and are not even properly toilet trained? Do the parents really think it's the schools responsibility to teach them these basic skills?
Or even be able to sit at a table - I think we may have very similar experiences.
WARNING - From this point on is probably not for the sensitive or precious - and I don’t intend to be offensive to working parents BUT someone has to say it -
If parents weren’t in such a hurry to abdicate responsibility for day-to-day care of their children some of these cases could have been detected at much earlier stages.
Call it a mother’s instinct / body language or whatever but a mother who knows their child well in all conditions and circumstances will recognise a problem at a much earlier stage than one whose time with their children is limited. It’s OK compensating for leaving your child in care facilities by having so-called ‘quality time’ but by its nature it masks an awful lot of problems that would only be recognised in a routine everyday environment.
P.S For mother - also read father or whatever.
I find this really offensive. I have been in the position of being both a stay at home mother and a mother who HAD to work. I stayed at home with my child for the first year of his life. Then i had a little job part time, we needed the money and my mother would look after my child for a couple of hours a few times a week. Son got to spend quality time with his gran and vice versa. Then my mother fell ill and within a very short space of time she passed away. My marriage broke up and I found myself in the position of having to work to pay my rent and having to put my child to a nursery to enable me to go to work !
I am particularly offended by the remarks that those who stay at home with their children are more keyed into what is happening and will see signs that something is wrong! Believe me there are parents who are with their children all the time and blind to what their child is going through. You cannot see something you dont want to see.
There are millions of reasons that parents choose to send their children to nurseries. There are also two very separate groups of mothers. One is the full time mum group who believe that children should only be with them and their families. THe other group is the mums who go out to work, who feel they have something to contribute to the working world or who for whatever reason have to work. The two groups will NEVER agree with each other, therefore this is a pointless debate.
This is also detracting from the issue at hand. The article does not say she abused a child at the nursery just that she was prosecuted for abuse of a child. As she has 9 children it could be one of her own. There is also the issue that the world seems more horrified when it is a female abuser than when it is a male. It has long been believed that females are incapable of abusing children which of course they are not.
Children in nursery follow a curriculum of play. It is now assumed that all children who start school and who have attended nursery be able to write their own names for instance. This is completely different to how I was brought up, not having gone to nursery and learning the alphabet in primary one.......
Perhaps society places too much on our kids now, kids are now being forced to learn from an early age. In other european countries children dont attend school until they are 7.
But once again this detracts from the article. This is about a woman who has abused a child. This is not about whether its correct to send a child to nursery or not. Unfortunately paedophiles are not going to stop if we close down nurseries and keep our children at home! Nursery is just one option for them I would imagine ......
Once again this is a society issue about how we are failing our children. Yes we as parents have a responsiblity for our children. Education is important and we need to educate our children which is why i send my son to school.
We try to keep our children safe but we cannot be with them 24 hours a day. I am sure that the parents of those children at the nursery where this person worked feel guilty enough they didnt fully protect their children without people accusing them of using a babysitting service because they didnt want to spend time with their kids!
For those who want to stay at home and be a full time mum then fine , if thats your calling brilliant, all power to you. For those who feel they cannot do that (for whatever reason) and use nurseries to look after their children then thats also brilliant. Its a individual choice.
K
on this note.. i told the dr. that something was wrong with ben when he was a baby.. just over a year or so.. and they told me no there wasnt.. that he was making eye contact.. babling away and being very sociable.. oh well hes autistic.. i noticed it then.. but wanst diagnosed until just before he turned 5. mothers whether they work or not.. notice things as long as the are caring parents.
a lot of time moms and dads have to go back to work they dont get a choice.
it would be wonderful to live in a world where one parent could be home full time. unfortunatly it dosent often work out like that.
i dont have a prob. with working parents.. i feel for them becausr it is hard.
but its not often thru choice.
you talk about childrens rights.. what rights would that be?
the right to be shelterd, fed, clothed?
I am a full time mom thankfully, and have been since dec.
im finding it a lot easier.. weve had to tighten our belts a bit though but worth it.
however, i have a firm philosphy about child rearing.. and its simple.. i have to clothe you, feed you and shelter you.. yes i love you and always will.. however, everything else is a privelage. you follow the rules you get rewarded.. you dont well.... no one needs tv. pc. phone, pocket money, or having their friends around. i know its basically child abuse these days.. but lip will get you staring at four walls for company in this house. i am not afraid to send my kids to their room *G*
onecalledk
06-Mar-10, 19:05
the right to live a life free from abuse, to be heard and listened to....
children have voices, we need to listen to those voices, its sometimes what children DONT say that is the most important....
K
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