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Chillie
15-May-06, 01:17
Now that Inverness has become a City should we in Caithness pay the same Council Tax, Rate's, etc as set by the Highland Council,or should we go it alone again as a county in it's own wright or even join with Sutherland & Ross & Cromarty?

JAWS
15-May-06, 01:46
Without a doubt. It's time the whole region was looked at.
Even to someone who originates outwith the area it's obvious that Highland Council is an animal designed by a committee of pen-pushers.

Can anybody explain to me just what the links are between Caithness, Aviemore and Ullapool? I know they’re all in the Highlands of Scotland as a geographical area but JoG and Lands End are in the same geographical area called Great Britain.

Inverness should be hived off on it’s own and the rest split according to some sensible sort of local affinity and requirements.
Others are better placed than me to know what makes sense to put together and what doesn’t but I suspect that outwith the Inverness area most places will feel similarly to Caithness in their feelings of being the unwanted relative at the party who everybody is trying to pretend isn't there.

Oddquine
15-May-06, 02:35
Moray is a stand-alone council, with a much smaller area to cover road and services wise than Caithness and Sutherland...and more than twice the population.........and approximately the same population if you include Ross and Cromarty, which I'm inclined to think would stay put with Inverness anyway.

Hiving the area off from Inverness might sound good........but a word to the wise..Moray's Band D Council Tax, before water, this year is £1096..........Highland's is £1086.

If you remove the 75000 people from Inverness and Nairn from the equation, but hope to maintain and improve on the services etc, Council Tax is going to have to take a fair jump.or the services reduce.

Chillie
15-May-06, 03:09
Moray is a stand-alone council, with a much smaller area to cover road and services wise than Caithness and Sutherland...and more than twice the population.........and approximately the same population if you include Ross and Cromarty, which I'm inclined to think would stay put with Inverness anyway.

Hiving the area off from Inverness might sound good........but a word to the wise..Moray's Band D Council Tax, before water, this year is £1096..........Highland's is £1086.

If you remove the 75000 people from Inverness and Nairn from the equation, but hope to maintain and improve on the services etc, Council Tax is going to have to take a fair jump.or the services reduce.

Where did you get your stats from they don't workout according to me?

JAWS
15-May-06, 05:08
Moray is a stand-alone council, with a much smaller area to cover road and services wise than Caithness and Sutherland...and more than twice the population.........and approximately the same population if you include Ross and Cromarty, which I'm inclined to think would stay put with Inverness anyway.

Hiving the area off from Inverness might sound good........but a word to the wise..Moray's Band D Council Tax, before water, this year is £1096..........Highland's is £1086.

If you remove the 75000 people from Inverness and Nairn from the equation, but hope to maintain and improve on the services etc, Council Tax is going to have to take a fair jump.or the services reduce.
When it comes to trying to understand things like the financing and costs of Metropolitan Counties, Unitary Authorities, Regional Councils or whatever the current buzz-word is for them I must admit I have a huge place in my brain which goes under the label of "Does not Compute!" I have tried and tried to create a scenario which enables it to compute but so far without success.

I listen with enthusiasm to siren voices telling me about economies of scale and explaining that big is beautiful, massive is magnificent, enormous is excellent and that if I emptied my got rid of my stiflingly cramped outdated little pool and jumped in with theirs I would be much better off because the water is beautiful.

In my enthusiasm I do as they suggest and in I leap, ignoring the poor little penguin with the blue beak who was pushed into the other big pool just across the way and is shivering like mad.

Very shortly I too notice my goose-bumps, my blue finger ends and the fact that I am shivering like mad. I complain that the water is freezing cold. It is explained to me in a tone reserved for fools and idiots that my part of the pool is cold because where I am is not a huge drain on reserves and if only there were more of me swimming in my part of the pool the excess input of heat would solve the problem but in the meantime, if I would be patient, then things should improve.

I wait and wait but nothing changes. I complain again. I am informed by a very annoyed and aggressive voice to shut up and that I will have to continue suffering so that the people in the more populated end of the pool can continue having some of my heat so they can carry on enjoying their Jacuzzi.

Eventually I suggest that it might be better if I returned to my own original small pool so my end of the large pool will not be such a drain on their resources.
I am immediately advised that I would never survive because my small pool is too small for me to keep warm.
I can't help wondering how I managed to be so comfortable in it for such a long time before I was talked into joining the big pool!

Urban Councils are always eager to grab the surrounding areas and their finances claiming the benefits of economies of scale. Once the opportunity arises they grab as much of the surrounding area as possible.
Once that is done the surrounding areas immediately find that they are considered an inconvenient and expensive drain of resources who cast far more than they are worth.
Once there is a suggestion that the surrounding areas should be cut free there is always the same plaintive and pathetic wail that they will never manage to survive.

If I have something which is a huge drain on my resources which I can ill afford and somebody offers to take it off my hands for nothing I jump at the chance as fast as I can.

When these huge cobbled-together Councils shuffle and drag their feet and object strongly to being given the same option I have to wonder why.
The only answer I ever come up with is that I am being taken to the cleaners at a massive expense to me for the benefit of others.
One thing I am certain of and that is that they are not sticking like glue to me because they have a personal interest in my welfare and that there is very definitely something in it for them and that something is usually out of my bank balance.

If the Highland Council wishes to cling to Caithness like glue it's not because it loves us it's because they need Caithness and other such places to help save it from drowning.

Oddquine
15-May-06, 05:34
Apologies,I picked up last year's Highland figure. The figures for this year are Moray £1096 and Highland £1135...........but I don't think that negates my point that The Moray Council has a much smaller area to service and maintain the infrastructure for than a combined Ross and Cromarty to Caithness has. Regarding population, area coverage and scattered rural communities you would be nearer to Argyll and Bute..........and their Band D is £1156

Oddquine
15-May-06, 05:58
I'm not saying it isn't possible.......or even not something to be desired, Jaws. Just that, realistically, it has a better than fair to middling chance of making the Caithness council tax payer either worse of in monetary terms or in service terms.

I suppose I'm saying what all the people who feel British becuse of the Union say when I talk about Scottish independence...but then I'd be prepared to pay more for that if it was necessary........would the council tax payers here?

JAWS
15-May-06, 07:13
Then why is it that things would appear to have declined since Caithness was lumped into the Highland Council? Were Caithness Council Taxes a lot higher before the Highland Council came into being?

Surely Caithness must have had either a lower level of services or a higher level of Council Tax when it was previously in the position which has been suggested by being in control of it's own services and not reliant on what the Highland Council in Inverness decides to let it have.

Surely you are not suggesting that Caithness is massively subsidised by Inverness. Not even I would fall for that idea, the whole idea of centring Council Areas on large Urban Areas was so that they could reap all the benefits and leave the left-overs for the rest.

pultneytooner
15-May-06, 07:20
I'm not saying it isn't possible.......or even not something to be desired, Jaws. Just that, realistically, it has a better than fair to middling chance of making the Caithness council tax payer either worse of in monetary terms or in service terms.

I suppose I'm saying what all the people who feel British becuse of the Union say when I talk about Scottish independence...but then I'd be prepared to pay more for that if it was necessary........would the council tax payers here?
How did we manage with the old county council, were we better off or worse off?

clash67
15-May-06, 14:57
When it comes to trying to understand things like the financing and costs of Metropolitan Counties, Unitary Authorities, Regional Councils or whatever the current buzz-word is for them I must admit I have a huge place in my brain which goes under the label of "Does not Compute!" I have tried and tried to create a scenario which enables it to compute but so far without success.

I listen with enthusiasm to siren voices telling me about economies of scale and explaining that big is beautiful, massive is magnificent, enormous is excellent and that if I emptied my got rid of my stiflingly cramped outdated little pool and jumped in with theirs I would be much better off because the water is beautiful.

In my enthusiasm I do as they suggest and in I leap, ignoring the poor little penguin with the blue beak who was pushed into the other big pool just across the way and is shivering like mad.

Very shortly I too notice my goose-bumps, my blue finger ends and the fact that I am shivering like mad. I complain that the water is freezing cold. It is explained to me in a tone reserved for fools and idiots that my part of the pool is cold because where I am is not a huge drain on reserves and if only there were more of me swimming in my part of the pool the excess input of heat would solve the problem but in the meantime, if I would be patient, then things should improve.

I wait and wait but nothing changes. I complain again. I am informed by a very annoyed and aggressive voice to shut up and that I will have to continue suffering so that the people in the more populated end of the pool can continue having some of my heat so they can carry on enjoying their Jacuzzi.

Eventually I suggest that it might be better if I returned to my own original small pool so my end of the large pool will not be such a drain on their resources.
I am immediately advised that I would never survive because my small pool is too small for me to keep warm.
I can't help wondering how I managed to be so comfortable in it for such a long time before I was talked into joining the big pool!

Urban Councils are always eager to grab the surrounding areas and their finances claiming the benefits of economies of scale. Once the opportunity arises they grab as much of the surrounding area as possible.
Once that is done the surrounding areas immediately find that they are considered an inconvenient and expensive drain of resources who cast far more than they are worth.
Once there is a suggestion that the surrounding areas should be cut free there is always the same plaintive and pathetic wail that they will never manage to survive.

If I have something which is a huge drain on my resources which I can ill afford and somebody offers to take it off my hands for nothing I jump at the chance as fast as I can.

When these huge cobbled-together Councils shuffle and drag their feet and object strongly to being given the same option I have to wonder why.
The only answer I ever come up with is that I am being taken to the cleaners at a massive expense to me for the benefit of others.
One thing I am certain of and that is that they are not sticking like glue to me because they have a personal interest in my welfare and that there is very definitely something in it for them and that something is usually out of my bank balance.

If the Highland Council wishes to cling to Caithness like glue it's not because it loves us it's because they need Caithness and other such places to help save it from drowning.
Well said, I agree.

Errogie
18-May-06, 19:20
Caithness County Council was a marvellously speedy and efficient local authority.
In the 1950's they gave planning permission in less than a week for the construction of a nuclear research establishment at Dounereay. The actual consent notice was no more than two sentences and we're still living with them.

There has always been a tendency for Caithness to have a chip on its shoulder about the well heeled south. I've heard the old men say that the country was like a badly stirred pudding - all the dough was at the bottom. But on the other hand perhaps the cream has risen to the top!

It's sometimes too easy to imagine that rearanging the deck chairs is going to save the ship going down when what is needed are more wily politicians to play the present system. Beware, reorganisation is too often the knee jerk reaction to hard times and allows the councillors to walk away from their mistakes.