Animal Crackers

[DopeyDan]

Dog bites Man...Dog gets put down.

Whale bites Man (on two separate occasions it now transpires, killing Man on both occasions)...Whale lives.

Discuss.

[Thumper]

Whale shouldnt be in captivity then it would not have been able to "attack" .Places like Seaworld should stop being greedy and using these animals for lining their own pockets under the guise of "entertainment".....Discuss!x

[Venture]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1253564/Trainer-dies-attack-killer-whale-SeaWorld.html

......whale lives to kill again it would seem. You never can tell how any animal will react given a situation. Poor woman, being killed by the animal she trained and loved. What a horrific experience also for those present.

I totally agree with you there Thumper.

[Thumper]

While I agree its sad for the woman involved,there are dangers working with wild animals and she would have know that(or should have!) the simple fact is that if people stopped going to watch these shows there wouldnt be animals in captivity,the UK banned wild animals in circuses for that reason so why not have a worldwide ban? Have any of you seen the "dancing bears"? Do any of you think thats entertainment?Well a whale being made to entertain is no different and should not be allowed!x

[Anfield]

Don't forget bullfighting too, also if you are on holiday and are asked to have your photo taken with an animal, refuse.

[northener]

A bathtub is no place for any cetacean, never mind a killer whale.

I can understand the argument that places like Seaworld create an interest for the marine environment that may have not been there for many people, but the space and conditions these creatures are kept in sucks.

Personally, I'd legislate against any more cetaceans being introduced into captivity for commercial gain.

[changilass]

Personally, I'd legislate against any more cetaceans being introduced into captivity for commercial gain.


Agree with you here.

My question is, what do we do witht he ones already in captivity?

Some of these animals will live for decades yet. They cannot simpy be put back to the wild, they would not survive.

[Thumper]

|Most could be rehabbed and released after a long time,but like Northerner said if they introduced legislation stopping anymore from being taken in,then at least we would know that there would be an end in sight,after the ones who were too old,sick etc to be rehabbed were gone there would be no more allowed to be taken x

[DopeyDan]

Don't forget bullfighting too, also if you are on holiday and are asked to have your photo taken with an animal, refuse.

Going to have to ask the other-half to step to one side this summer then. :lol:

[northener]

I suspect it may be a gargantuan task to introduce some of these animals into the wild.
And I feel that in some cases it may not be in the best interest for the animals long-term welfare - so we're stuck with it, I'm afraid.

[northener]

Don't forget bullfighting too, also if you are on holiday and are asked to have your photo taken with an animal, refuse.

Bloody hell, having yer pitcher taken with a huge enraged bull on the seafront:eek:

I'd be up for that!:cool:

Used to be a bloke with just a parrot when I was a kid...or was he a pirate?...soooo long ago....

[Thumper]

I suspect it may be a gargantuan task to introduce some of these animals into the wild.
And I feel that in some cases it may not be in the best interest for the animals long-term welfare - so we're stuck with it, I'm afraid.

Some would be yes,but as you said if we had legislation brought in we would at least know there would be an end in sight for this cruelty x

[DopeyDan]

Personally, I'd legislate against any more cetaceans being introduced into captivity for commercial gain.


And so we come to the dichotomy which this story raises. There would no doubt be a movement to press for legislation to not have animals in captivity. So shouldn't that argument be extended to also include pets ?

What's the difference between having a dog that you get to fetch sticks for your personal amusement, and a whale taught to balance a ball on the end of its nose ?

There is a commercial argument against the latter, but a lot of people make a lot of money out of the pet industry.

[northener]

And so we come to the dichotomy which this story raises. There would no doubt be a movement to press for legislation to not have animals in captivity. So shouldn't that argument be extended to also include pets ?

What's the difference between having a dog that you get to fetch sticks for your personal amusement, and a whale taught to balance a ball on the end of its nose ?

There is a commercial argument against the latter, but a lot of people make a lot of money out of the pet industry.

Fair comment (and I knew this would pop up at some stage:Razz).

For me personally it's more about conditions than anything - rather than some human notion of 'freedom'.

If these creatures were given space and conditions approaching what they would experience in the wild - then fine, i might agree. The problem is with Killer whales, dolphins and porpoises is that they'd need a hell of a lot of space..and that wouldn't be commercially viable - so no captivity for them in my book.

As for interaction with land mammals, it's something we've done for thousands of years, most of the mammals in any form of captivity are there after generations of specific breeding by humans to get what we 'want'.
A good example would be having a domestic rabbit in a (adequately sized) hutch...no probs there if Mr Fluffybum gets looked after properly...put a wild rabbit in a hutch and watch it die or become miserable at the best....no comparison.

Domestic animals - fine. Wild animals in captivity - should be the exception as oppesed to the norm.

Going back to your original point regarding the death:

The dog is put down because we expect it to be a domesticated animal and behave in a certain manner towards people. Personally I would say the fault lies with the owner - not the animal.

The Killer Whale has 'killed' it's trainer. We don't not really know if this was a deliberate attempt to 'kill' or not - because the animal is essentially still wild and we are only just scratching the surface of our understanding of them. I would say the fault lies with the owner - not the animal.

[Shabbychic]

And so we come to the dichotomy which this story raises. There would no doubt be a movement to press for legislation to not have animals in captivity. So shouldn't that argument be extended to also include pets ?

What's the difference between having a dog that you get to fetch sticks for your personal amusement, and a whale taught to balance a ball on the end of its nose ?

There is a commercial argument against the latter, but a lot of people make a lot of money out of the pet industry.

I think you'll find there is a vast difference between wild animals and domesticated animals.

Not all dogs exist just to fetch sticks. Many dogs for example, work with man, dogs for the blind, rescue dogs, sheep dogs, sniffer dogs, to name but a few.

Then again, many pets are abused, but this requires vigilance and higher penalties, not a ban on pets.

Not all wild animals should be banned from being kept in captivity either. There are many that are nearing extinction, like Orang Utans, dying because large companies want palm oil. So they require man's help.

So it is not a simple arguement, but I do not agree with any animal having to perform tricks for public amusement, and this includes horse and dog racing.

[Kevin Milkins]

We visited Sea World a few years ago, and I have to say is was an amazing experience to get up close to so many of these enchanting creatures.

The arguments for and against keeping them in these sorts of conditions is debatable and although I would agree that such a large beast would need a great deal of room, the overall conditions for all the animals looked absolutely second to none.

The chances of Joe Average ever getting a look at such wonderful animals in the wild would be very low and I think a lot of positive research that could benefit them in the wild in the long term can come from having them in such places.

I was looking through some photos of our trip and it looks like the lass on the centre stage could be the one that lost her life.:confused

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm196/kevinmilkins/PA030026.jpg?t=1267189743

[Anfield]

Kevin
I think you will find that Seaworld has no time for "..a lot of positive research.." They are in it for the money.

Even if it was possible to release this poor animal , they would not agree as it
"..not an option because it was an important part of the breeding program at SeaWorld.."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8537996.stm

[Thumper]

Sorry Kevin but thats exactly what Seaworld wants....more like you using the excuse that the only way they will see these animals is in captivity :( Personally I would rather never see one than watch it made to do tricks for others enjoyment,if you think the whale is enjoying it you are sadly mistaken x