ground hog day

[Tom Cornwall]

here we go again..more climbers killed in the Scottish mountains...just a couple of months after my last shout, another 2 climbers killed...are these people so stupid or arrogant, that they pay no attention to the warnings...and the rescue people called out yesterday must be pulling their hair out at the stupidity of some people..the were under threat from the conditions as well... the mountains should be put out of bounds if there are warnings in force...it makes me mad to think about it

[annemarie482]

i see what your saying,
can't deny i think it myself when i see it on the news each time.

but then people have the right to engage in these sports/activities if they wish.
even the most experienced climbers can get into difficulties in quick changing conditions.

i often think though
maybe they should have to visit/contact the local rescue service before they head out for advice on conditions and to let them know they're going,
also pay a deposit in case they get into difficulties and need rescued as this is an unnecessary activity, with many rescuers risking they're own lives to save them also the cost in retrieving the lost/injured climbers.
obviously depoist returned if not required.

i know this is a VERY vague suggestion but you get the jist.

[davem]

I can understand that perhaps the joy of mountaineering has escaped you in Norfolk.
Its about assessing risks and using experience to judge what you do. There are some people who are reckless, but most of the people injured are plain unlucky. I lost a schoolfriend in a rock avalanche in france in summer; years ago, complete freak accident.

We could wrap everyone in cotton wool and have far duller lives, I for one enjoy activities that involve risk and adventure. Mostly at sea level now I have a family but the people whose wings you want to clip would be insufferable to live with if their sports were barred to them. Some people need adrenaline to feel alive, you don't fair enough but don't judge what you can't understand.

[brandy]

i can see where hes coming from though.. clmbing is all well and good. have done hill climbing and the like in my youth and loved it. but common sense should play a part a HUGE part in it as well. when it is extremely dangerous conditions.. then perhaps the powers that be should close the mountain. if not for the saftey of would be hikers then for the saftey of the rescue personel that have to go out and search and rescue.

[bekisman]

here we go again..more climbers killed in the Scottish mountains...just a couple of months after my last shout, another 2 climbers killed...are these people so stupid or arrogant, that they pay no attention to the warnings...and the rescue people called out yesterday must be pulling their hair out at the stupidity of some people..the were under threat from the conditions as well... the mountains should be put out of bounds if there are warnings in force...it makes me mad to think about it

But did you not do this one in Dec?:

these people must be stupid to even contemplate the thought of climbing Scottish mountains in the middle of winter...they often end up injured or even dead..what about the cost of the rescue services which are put out to find them and airlift them home...perhaps they should have to take out compulsary insurance to cover this cost...it's not very good just telling them to wear the right clothes and keep an eye on the weather forecast...I'm sure the forecast for the last couple of days wasn't very good for the Scottish mountain areas....anyway...as I said at the start, they're stupid...

Experienced mountaineers can and always will 'go to the mountain' - obviously if they are inexperienced and not prepared; well that IS stupid..

[davem]

Aye but it will be parts of the mountain safe and parts dangerous. I'd love a mountain rescuer to give their point of view. They resent getting people off in trainers and tee shirts in the summer - less so people well prepared, planned but unlucky.

[davem]

as for forecasts snow and ice climbing needs snow and ice. I have never liked being cold overly so never tried it but it is a legitimate sport and the pinnacle of skill in mountaineering.

[Joefitz]

I worked on Glenfiddich Estate as a gamekeeper, and in 1971, we were called out to look for hikers lost in bad weather. We found them just before dark, totally lost, wearing sneakers and an anorak, for Heaven's sake. They thought they were a couple of miles from where they set out, despite having crossed from Glen Livet, to Glenfiddich, over Suie mountain.
They had the nerve to get nasty with us, when we told them to get in the Land Rover, as they fully intended to keep going. The Head Keeper's reply would have blistered paint, let me tell you. We got them back to Dufftown, 30 miles from where they started, then they tried to cuss out the Cops when they wouldn't take them back to their Hotel.....Gotta love it!!!

[Errogie]

Oh dear we're revisiting this subject yet again. I'll repeat the gist of my contribution last time round. There are very few truely stupid excursions into the mountains which result in disaster but every weekend some boy racer or drinker kills themselves or others with predictable regularity.

Of course conditions are challenging at the moment and no mountain rescuer would say do not venture out into the hills you just have to make more informed choices. The climbers who lost their lives on Buachaille Etive Mor were doing just that when they opted not to descend by the avalanche prone Coire Tullich but took a less vulnerable but more exposed route closer to their ascent route of Curved Ridge. Unfortunately a very small slab avalanche slip not likely to be dangerous in itself did push them over the main face of the Buachaille with disasterous consequences.

I have climbed rock and snow and ice for more than 40 years including 12 years in a rescue team and had my share of risk but fortunately am still here. Please don't knock it if you have never been and done it. In these days of rampant obesity and huge costs to the health service anybody who takes on the huge physical effort of climbing mountains in summer or winter should be given as much support as possible. It's way better for you than becoming a petrol head enthusiast and ending up on the mortuary from that activity.

Rant over!

[Whitewater]

Have to agree with "Errogie". Climbing at any time can be dangerous, I have given it up now due to age and arthritis in both hands and feet. I was properly schooled in both summer and winter climbing many years ago (two separate courses, both lasting ten days) where we were taught the art of survival i.e clothing, maps, ropework equipment etc. we were sharpened up on our basic skills, but that training was only basic to set you up for the pleasure you could find in the hills, the expertise only came after many forays into the mountains during both summer and winter. It is really a pleasure all the year round, you see the hills in all their seasonal variations.

It is always a tragedy when people get lost or loose their lives in the hills, but Tom Corwall is right, some inexperienced people do venture into the hills without the knowlege and equipment required and I get really angry when I read about them and the danger they put the rescue teams into, but experienced climbers get caught out sometimes as well. The Scottish mountains are not too high but they can be very dangerous due the the unpredictability of the weather.

But by the very nature of the challenge, you can't close them, all responsible climbers let the local athorities know where they are going and what time they expect to return. It is only the fools that go into the hills unprepared that cause the real problems. Unfortunately we can't really stop them either.