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Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 00:06
The Polis seem to be getting on top of the illegal drugs problem in our County at long last.
What's the general feeling on appropriate punishment for those who choose to pollute our County with such stuff?

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 00:09
From what I've seen they are getting on top of the easy catches that aren't doing much harm and leaving the more serious criminals alone. All for their stats and nothing else.

ducati
24-Feb-10, 00:18
The Polis seem to be getting on top of the illegal drugs problem in our County at long last.
What's the general feeling on appropriate punishment for those who choose to pollute our County with such stuff?

Send 'em to jail forever.

Stavro
24-Feb-10, 00:20
From what I've seen they are getting on top of the easy catches that aren't doing much harm and leaving the more serious criminals alone. All for their stats and nothing else.


Area Commander Andy Brown was certainly doing something about them, but they soon got rid of him! :eek:

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 00:25
Also there is a demand. Not saying it is right but there always will be a demand. If we get rid of the small scale local dealers we will get the organised crime gangs take their place. If you want organised crime and guns then continue going after the small fry. I know which I would rather have.
Also it seems they can't get rid of the more serious criminals, especially in Wick with all the intimidation of witnesses. This is why they go after the smaller, less troublesome people. TBH most of the people they have caught recently were causing no real trouble (again from what I have seen, I am not one of those people who runs to the newsagent every wed/fri and sticks my nose in the courts section).

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 00:26
Area Commander Andy Brown was certainly doing something about them, but they soon got rid of him! :eek:
Oh Christ, not another conspiracy...:roll:

sam09
24-Feb-10, 00:46
Jail them and make them go cold turkey. But also agree the police must go after the big fry. Drug dealing is a multi billion enterprise in the U.K. There must be collusion in the top echelons of the so called elite that never gets caught to allow this to continue.

Stavro
24-Feb-10, 00:52
Oh Christ, not another conspiracy...:roll:

I never said anything about a "conspiracy." What an orderly world you live in, where everything is as you are told it is on the BBC, or in the newspapers, and no one ever has any motive for anything, except what is allowed under the officially-sanctioned conspiracy theory, of course.

"Money talks," Tub. I heard that somewhere. Quite an old saying I think you'll find. :)

changilass
24-Feb-10, 00:56
Money only talks it there is lots and lots and lots of it - who do you know up here as what has that sort of money?

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 00:56
I never said anything about a "conspiracy." What an orderly world you live in, where everything is as you are told it is on the BBC, or in the newspapers, and no one ever has any motive for anything, except what is allowed under the officially-sanctioned conspiracy theory, of course. "Money talks," Tub. I heard that somewhere. Quite an old saying I think you'll find. :)
And what a thoroughly entertaining world you live in Stavros, with everything in doubt except what you actually see and feel yourself. Money talks, I believe it probably does, and the very fact that you're on this here computer broadband thing shows you have some, and therefore are a willing participant in the great conspiracy!
Welcome my friend!

Stavro
24-Feb-10, 00:59
Money only talks it there is lots and lots and lots of it - who do you know up here as what has that sort of money?

I'm not allowed to say that.

Stavro
24-Feb-10, 01:02
... Welcome my friend!

:lol: Very good.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 01:02
I'm not allowed to say that.
What, in case they get you?

slinky
24-Feb-10, 01:37
The Polis seem to be getting on top of the illegal drugs problem in our County at long last.
What's the general feeling on appropriate punishment for those who choose to pollute our County with such stuff?

why wot do u know, we dont ,u dont get drug dealers randomley hassling people , i see no harm in it if theres no minors involved ,in most cases its people buying of close mates i see no harm in smoking pot everyone to there own i guess ,its the goverment who should be hanged for allowing drink to be legal and not weed when every day u read about drinkers killing each other people killing themselves starting fights we random strangers aggessive behavior ,glassing knifing people ,drink changes people for the worst thats why i dont drink i realised that but unfortunaltley its everywhere adverts steet corners shops no wonder kids are changing for the worst im 28 , im going to start a poll infact

slinky
24-Feb-10, 01:41
would u prefer a nightclub full of blind drunks slevering crap

or a night club full of stoners lying back enyoing themselves sensibly

slinky
24-Feb-10, 01:47
just curious for this poll as why cannabiss is illegal when no living sole has ever overdosed and died .but drink gie how long u got and ats just folk i ken

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 03:06
Statistics show that the costs of rehabilitating...looking after alcoholics... far outweighs the the revenue the Gov't makes from the sales......and why legalize/ decriminalize another drug.
Just doesn't make sense...yes Countries have attempted to de-criminalize it but then how can you legally buy it??? Just tooooo complicated....
I hate to challenge your theory about the kids and the knifings etc...not true......So... to each his/her own!

Boozeburglar
24-Feb-10, 05:45
Quite ridiculous to criminalise people for enjoying such a natural substance.

Aaldtimer
24-Feb-10, 06:07
just curious for this poll as why cannabiss is illegal when no living sole has ever overdosed and died .but drink gie how long u got and ats just folk i ken

Just wish I could understand the second sentence!:confused

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 08:18
I don't think you'd have a night club full of stoners. How would the proprietor pay for staff and heating costs etc? Also it wouldn't be much craic, would it?
The music probably wouldn't be up to much either.

fred
24-Feb-10, 08:24
Statistics show that the costs of rehabilitating...looking after alcoholics... far outweighs the the revenue the Gov't makes from the sales......and why legalize/ decriminalize another drug.


I've looked at the statistics for the UK and they are a joke, deliberately skewed. They only take into account direct revenue from taxation, excise duty and VAT, while ignoring all the indirect benefits like over a million full time jobs created by the drinks industry. On the other hand they calculate the costs to the health service on anything drink related not drink caused.

Even then the income from alcohol revenue far exceeds the costs to the health services. To make the cost of drinking exceed income from revenue they have to include a lot of other factors, days work lost due to hangovers, the costs to the criminal justice system, anything they can find even remotely connected to alcohol.

This keeps the temperance brigade happy and also keeps the politicians happy, they have an excuse to raise taxes on alcohol before retiring to the House of Commons bar for a few Johnny Walkers.

The numbers are all here if you want to check them.

http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/factsheets/economic_costs_benefits.pdf

ducati
24-Feb-10, 09:07
why wot do u know, we dont ,u dont get drug dealers randomley hassling people , i see no harm in it if theres no minors involved ,in most cases its people buying of close mates i see no harm in smoking pot everyone to there own i guess ,its the goverment who should be hanged for allowing drink to be legal and not weed when every day u read about drinkers killing each other people killing themselves starting fights we random strangers aggessive behavior ,glassing knifing people ,drink changes people for the worst thats why i dont drink i realised that but unfortunaltley its everywhere adverts steet corners shops no wonder kids are changing for the worst im 28 , im going to start a poll infact

You should go to jail ASAP and don't start your filthy poll here inciting people to break the law

ducati
24-Feb-10, 09:14
I don't think you'd have a night club full of stoners. How would the proprietor pay for staff and heating costs etc? Also it wouldn't be much craic, would it?
The music probably wouldn't be up to much either.

How about a nightclub where the police crash through the wall and cart everyone off to jail (after helping them down the stairs first of course) I'd vote for that.

There is absolutely nowhere in the world that illegal drugs have done any good. It just feeds on itself and puts money in the pockets of gangsters

annemarie482
24-Feb-10, 09:19
funny how you have worded this very much in favour of drugs.........

you thread title said drink/drugs.
so i'm going to treat this as all drugs and say i'd rather be in a club full of drunks.

no one has died of cannabis?
i think not, by time you add up the one's who have jumped in a car after taking etc....
i think you'll find you are very wrong there.
coupled with the paranoia its proven to cause, there are many instances of domestic abuse etc.
the damage prolonged use can cause to the body (a friend suffered multiple organ failure and now has a pacemaker)

i'm not saying alcohols all that either,
i worked in a bar for 8 years so i've seen some nasty sights, glass attack
and some dramatic changes in character,
(before you say it i know as above, this also causes paranoia and instances of domestic abuse)
but the bar person "should" be in control of how much alcohol they get.
it is illegal to serve alcohol to a drunk person!

but all in all

as you ask

i'd prefer the club full of drunks.
i personally will NEVER condone the use of drugs.
my choice.

tubs i quite agree!
it wouldn't be much crack, would it?
The music wouldn't be up to much either! lol

brandy
24-Feb-10, 10:20
i think that every druggy should be pressed into military service.. and given at least a 4 year sentence *grins*

The Pepsi Challenge
24-Feb-10, 10:21
I, too, think that every abuser of alcohol should receive military service and an 8 year sentence. :)

ducati
24-Feb-10, 10:23
i think that every druggy should be pressed into military service.. and given at least a 4 year sentence *grins*

You wouldn't want these dregs in the armed services

brandy
24-Feb-10, 10:25
oh yes i would because they wouold be whipped into to shape so fast it would make your head spin.. the military is not a kind happy place

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 11:03
I dunno, I'd quite enjoy listening to Dark Side Of The Moon ten times in a night :lol:

Thumper
24-Feb-10, 11:14
Neither is "safe" anything that alters our perception of things can cause serious problems.IMO I would rather be with someone a little bit drunk than a little bit stoned but as I said thats just my opinion x

katarina
24-Feb-10, 11:23
just curious for this poll as why cannabiss is illegal when no living sole has ever overdosed and died .but drink gie how long u got and ats just folk i ken

It causes paranoia and schizophrenia. apparently it is more dangerous as it effects to the brain than heroin.

Moderator
24-Feb-10, 11:30
Extra option added to poll to balance things out.

Moderator

katarina
24-Feb-10, 11:33
They might not turn out to be dregs if tjhey could get them off the weed/drink. Who knows what gems lie beneath the poor befuddled brain fog!

katarina
24-Feb-10, 11:35
The Polis seem to be getting on top of the illegal drugs problem in our County at long last.
What's the general feeling on appropriate punishment for those who choose to pollute our County with such stuff?

If only......in an ideal world.........

RELAX
24-Feb-10, 11:37
I personally would shoot dead all drug pushers/users/suppliers

ducati
24-Feb-10, 11:49
They might not turn out to be dregs if tjhey could get them off the weed/drink. Who knows what gems lie beneath the poor befuddled brain fog!

If RELAX has his way we definitely won't find out :eek:

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 11:56
Extra option added to poll to balance things out.

Moderator

Worst club ever...

Is it the Legion? :)

chaz
24-Feb-10, 12:01
Neither is "safe" anything that alters our perception of things can cause serious problems.IMO I would rather be with someone a little bit drunk than a little bit stoned but as I said thats just my opinion x

Im with you on this one, so its my opinion also.

Vistravi
24-Feb-10, 12:02
funny how you have worded this very much in favour of drugs.........

you thread title said drink/drugs.
so i'm going to treat this as all drugs and say i'd rather be in a club full of drunks.

no one has died of cannabis?
i think not, by time you add up the one's who have jumped in a car after taking etc....
i think you'll find you are very wrong there.
coupled with the paranoia its proven to cause, there are many instances of domestic abuse etc.
the damage prolonged use can cause to the body (a friend suffered multiple organ failure and now has a pacemaker)

i'm not saying alcohols all that either,
i worked in a bar for 8 years so i've seen some nasty sights, glass attack
and some dramatic changes in character,
(before you say it i know as above, this also causes paranoia and instances of domestic abuse)
but the bar person "should" be in control of how much alcohol they get.
it is illegal to serve alcohol to a drunk person!

but all in all

as you ask

i'd prefer the club full of drunks.
i personally will NEVER condone the use of drugs.
my choice.

tubs i quite agree!
it wouldn't be much crack, would it?
The music wouldn't be up to much either! lol


I agree.

Alcohol is a drug in itself that is with out debate.

Illegal drugs are illegal for a reason. I do not care if the orginal poster is all for cannibis, to me there is a reason why it is not legal and i personally would never feel safe around anyone of illegal drugs. I've never felt the need to experiment with them as a teenager as it is a fool hardy thing to do just like all the other substance abuse that some teenagers indulge in.

changilass
24-Feb-10, 12:12
I'd like to see a valid argument for legalising canabis, that does not include references to alchohol.

They are two seperate things, so why use the fact that one is legal to try to validate the legalising of the other?

changilass
24-Feb-10, 12:26
I personally would shoot dead all drug pushers/users/suppliers

You could only ever get to shoot one, then you would be in jail for murder - would that make you a better person than the user/pusher/supplier?

roadbowler
24-Feb-10, 12:31
aye, well, what about the pharmaceutical drug pushers? Prescribing unlicenced drugs and pharmaceuticals for off label use? How about not being truthful and transparent about side effects of pharmaceuticals they are prescribing for even on label uses? What about pushing vaccines such as the MMR on to children with a goal of 100% uptake which they get bonuses for eventhough Merck in its very own manual says live virus vaccines should not be given to patients with or from families with b or t cell immuodeficiencies as they risk severe or even fatal infection?? This includes people with eczema, dermatitis, food and inhalant allergies, heart disease, neurological problems, warts, herpes simplex etc etc. Doctors kill and maim more people with pharmaceuticals than any recreational drug pusher ever could. In fact, it's one of the leading causes of death in the western world. When will they be stopped?

Boozeburglar
24-Feb-10, 12:41
oh yes i would because they wouold be whipped into to shape so fast it would make your head spin.. the military is not a kind happy place

I don't think the military would be a great place to send someone who might be on the cusp of developing a drug habit.

A bit like prison, not a great idea at all.

slinky
24-Feb-10, 12:44
[quote=ducati;665075]You should go to jail ASAP and don't start your filthy poll here inciting people to break the law[/filthy poll lol who are u to decide noticed uve put ur tuppence in a rake of posts thinking ur e boy il post wot i like when i like and if its a poll i want to discusss i certainley will ,

Boozeburglar
24-Feb-10, 12:59
Here here Slinky!

Get in there!

More power to you, tokers united!

:)

spurtle
24-Feb-10, 13:06
why wot do u know, we dont ,u dont get drug dealers randomley hassling people , i see no harm in it if theres no minors involved ,in most cases its people buying of close mates i see no harm in smoking pot everyone to there own i guess ,its the goverment who should be hanged for allowing drink to be legal and not weed when every day u read about drinkers killing each other people killing themselves starting fights we random strangers aggessive behavior ,glassing knifing people ,drink changes people for the worst thats why i dont drink i realised that but unfortunaltley its everywhere adverts steet corners shops no wonder kids are changing for the worst im 28 , im going to start a poll infact

Kills literacy though

Invisible
24-Feb-10, 13:08
[quote=ducati;665075] thinking ur e boy

I want this on my gravestone:lol:

Connor.
24-Feb-10, 13:13
I don't see the point in your posts, ducati. This is an open board. He's not going to force people to break the law. A general poll would actually be a good thing, I think.

I read in the news a few months back, that one of Britains drug advisors for the government was fired for saying that alcohol was worse for you than cannabis is. This is true. However, because he didn't say what the government wanted to, he was let go. This sparked off others that were working there to resign after their work being rendered pointless.

If people are wanting to do drugs, let them. If people are stupid enough to buy drugs, let them. As slinky says, there is alot more people that are on drink that are doing far worse things than sitting about in a house, eating tonnes of food and laughing their heads off.

slinky
24-Feb-10, 13:18
How about a nightclub where the police crash through the wall and cart everyone off to jail (after helping them down the stairs first of course) I'd vote for that.

There is absolutely nowhere in the world that illegal drugs have done any good. It just feeds on itself and puts money in the pockets of gangsters
lol help them down the stairs wot planet are u on i think people intoxicated would need help or half them just lie about street corners harrasing people after nightclubs :)

Connor.
24-Feb-10, 13:21
no one has died of cannabis?
i think not, by time you add up the one's who have jumped in a car after taking etc.... Evidence?


coupled with the paranoia its proven to cause, there are many instances of domestic abuse etc. Evidence?



the damage prolonged use can cause to the body (a friend suffered multiple organ failure and now has a pacemaker)
Depending on the drug, this would not necessarily mean that it was just the drugs fault.

Alcohol is a drug, it's just the fact that it can be taxed is the only difference.

Metalattakk
24-Feb-10, 13:52
/ half them just lie about street corners harrasing people after nightclubs :)

People telling fibs about street corners annoying people? Are you on drugs?

[lol]

RELAX
24-Feb-10, 13:52
This subject will never end , because everyone looks at drugs in a different way especially if they are using them, plus the argument is not about comparing them with alchohol or drugs for ailments , but cold hard drugs that ruin lives every single day of the week , wether recreational or otherwise, street drugs ruin lives ,period.

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 13:53
I'd like to see a valid argument for legalising canabis, that does not include references to alchohol.

They are two seperate things, so why use the fact that one is legal to try to validate the legalising of the other?

I say that's a fair point, but I'd like to also see a valid argument for it being illegal.

Also, I'd like to see a valid reason why alcohol is legal.

ShelleyCowie
24-Feb-10, 14:01
I dont do drugs, and i dont drink. I havent been keen on drinking since i was about 19. I would rather go out for a nice meal and remember it all than go out on the peeve and wake up £100 short of the day before, a massive hangover and not remembering a thing.

As for drugs well i dont do them, dont have friends around me who take them. I understand that teens tend to experiment with cannibas and that, but dont want to be stuck in a club full of people on drugs. People can take them if they want, thats their choice. But never ask me if i want to.

So.........i would rather put up with neither. But i can handle them! :)

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 14:04
the argument is not about comparing them with alchohol

True, but it's a valid argument all the same. Alcohol affects lives everyday, probably more so than drugs do. Each is equally disturbing, yet alcohol is legal.

It's a bit backwards of the government to legalize alcohol but to leave cannabis illegal.

I'm dead against harder drugs being legalized, but I think cannabis should be re-legalized.

RELAX
24-Feb-10, 14:05
I dont do drugs, and i dont drink. I havent been keen on drinking since i was about 19. I would rather go out for a nice meal and remember it all than go out on the peeve and wake up £100 short of the day before, a massive hangover and not remembering a thing.

As for drugs well i dont do them, dont have friends around me who take them. I understand that teens tend to experiment with cannibas and that, but dont want to be stuck in a club full of people on drugs. People can take them if they want, thats their choice. But never ask me if i want to.

So.........i would rather put up with neither. But i can handle them! :)
If you would rather put up with neither of them , yet you can handle them , is a contradiction.

changilass
24-Feb-10, 14:06
She can handle them both, but would rather not, what is contradictory about that?

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 14:08
She can handle them both, but would rather not, what is contradictory about that?

Exactly. Beat me to the chase there.

Life is like that.

brandy
24-Feb-10, 14:09
its well and good to say if people want to use drugs let them.. but what about kids? that is the main target for drug dealers. is it ok for our children to use drugs?
children are preyed upon, their innocence and naievity used to pull them into the use of drugs. even when they are warned and told not to do it.. when it seems to be the cool thing to do, when as young people they are invincible.. immortal.. and what can the harm be? a toke here.. turns into a drink there.. turns into a snort later.. and then maybe a quick shoot ... then the loving caring little boy or girl you knew.. whom you rocked to sleep at night.. sang to them and kissed their booboos away when they cried. who would run up to you with all the love in the world in their eye because you were the most important thing ever.. they become the strung out junkies.. who quit calling.. sneaks aroung begging for money, steals from your bag.. but you still turn a blind eye until the day that same sweet boy you held in your arms and kissed goodnight.. turns on you with hate and murder in their eyes.. the only thought in their mind.. their next fix.
that is what drugs is people.. and i dont care how much you sugar coat it.. any thing that is mind altering like that is bad. its not ok to turn a blind eye.. and say not my buisness.. cause it is your buisness.. drugs affect everyone..not just the person using.

Olin
24-Feb-10, 14:09
I haven't bothered to read the rest of what people have said.

But with regards to the original post my opinion is that drink shouldn't legal when some drugs aren't as there are just as many reasons for making it illegal too.

However not everyone would be kicking back or whatever when stoned because there are some things such as whiteys and paranoia that would cause it to be a bad experience too.

I think it should be up to people to do what they want to do with their body. I just find it weird how drink is legal as it is oneof the worst substances that I have encountered personally.....

RELAX
24-Feb-10, 14:18
True, but it's a valid argument all the same. Alcohol affects lives everyday, probably more so than drugs do. Each is equally disturbing, yet alcohol is legal.

It's a bit backwards of the government to legalize alcohol but to leave cannabis illegal.

I'm dead against harder drugs being legalized, but I think cannabis should be re-legalized.

No cannabis should not be legalised , i used to be a disc jockey and cannabis being smoked in places i was playing at does not do NORMAL pub/club visitors any favours by having to breath it in all night long with no escape from the fumes by these people who cannot seem to have a good time unless they are on cloud number 9

PartChimp
24-Feb-10, 14:20
I'd like to see a valid argument for legalising canabis, that does not include references to alchohol.

They are two seperate things, so why use the fact that one is legal to try to validate the legalising of the other?


What about MS sufferers and things like that where cannabis has been known to ease symptoms?

IMO, it's not legal because it is too easy for people to produce it at home, unlike alcohol (and cigarettes, the worst out the lot!) where the Government can slap tax on it!

Connor.
24-Feb-10, 14:21
What about MS sufferers and things like that where cannabis has been known to ease symptoms?

IMO, it's not legal because it is too easy for people to produce it at home, unlike alcohol (and cigarettes, the worst out the lot!) where the Government can slap tax on it!

Exactly my point. They can tax alcohol and fags because no one can make that themselves easily.

If they can't tax it, make it illegal then get money from prosecuting them.

Mystical Potato Head
24-Feb-10, 14:23
Both should be "buy one,get one free".

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 14:24
No cannabis should not be legalised , i used to be a disc jockey and cannabis being smoked in places i was playing at does not do NORMAL pub/club visitors any favours by having to breath it in all night long with no escape from the fumes by these people who cannot seem to have a good time unless they are on cloud number 9

Welcome to 2010, smoking indoors is not allowed.

Tobacco being smoked in places hasn't done anyone any good for years.

Your response is invalid, try again.

Invisible
24-Feb-10, 14:25
As I've never been in an environment with "stoners", I voted for the first option "drunks" as personally have never had bad experiences with drunks (mostly hugs)

changilass
24-Feb-10, 14:29
Do you not know just how easy it is to make home brew? Tobacco is a plant the same as canabis, so what exactly is your point?

With regards to MS sufferers, is there not licensed drugs that help ease the sypmtoms, if not then maybe it mignt be worth looking at licensing it.

Having said that, this thread is nothing to do with drugs for use as medication.

Its about recreational use.

Make a good argument for that and folks might be willing to listen.

Attacking other products/users is just getting the back up of folks who use the other products.

If you want to change things you need to get folks on your side and make a valid argument for your product.

Mystical Potato Head
24-Feb-10, 14:30
As I've never been in an environment with "stoners", I voted for the first option "drunks" as personally have never had bad experiences with drunks (mostly hugs)

Seen far more aggressive drunks than i have aggressive stoners.

PartChimp
24-Feb-10, 14:30
It's a crazy world we live in where the guy/girl that sits in their own home quietly enjoying a smoke or whatever and bothering no-one gets labeled "scum of the earth druggie" or whatever, but the guy/girl that goes out, gets blootered, causes noise, disruption, fighting, littering etc is "just out having a good time and had a bit too much drink"! :confused

What if it was the other way round and it was alcohol that was illegal!?
I bet there would be a few changed opinions then!

roadbowler
24-Feb-10, 14:32
changi, we would first need to look at why it was made illegal. It certainly wasn't because you could 'get high' from it because hemp is illegal too. At one time they grew a lot of hemp in caithness because it was a very useful crop. Ancestors of mine are listed on the census as hemp spinners and in those days it would have been an important job done by many. They made clothing from it, rope for the fishing industry, sacks, paper, canvas, building material etc etc. Is there much you cannot make from it? In this day and age of biofuels you would think it would be legal and people growing it again as a cash crop. More biofuel can be produced from an acre of hemp than any other plant product. As far as the side effects of paranoia and mental illness as a result of marijuana use, this is what happens after an overdose. Or long term overdose. You can overdose on any substance legal or illegal, causing a wide range of medical problems.

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 14:35
If you want to change things you need to get folks on your side and make a valid argument for your product.

Like I said earlier, I'd like to see a valid reason why alcohol is legalized, this is a thread about recreational use of both substances.

changilass
24-Feb-10, 14:39
Interesting and valid points roadblower.

However .......

IT is illegal.

To make it otherwise a valid argument would have to be produced to overturn that decision.

Following the valid argument you would need to get public opinion on your side.

Attacking smokers and drinkers is not gonna get them on side, and the mention of MS is not valid when wanting it legalised for recreational use.


Jeid - an argument does not need to be made for the legalisation of alcohol - it is already legal. An argument would only need to be made if you wanted to make it illegal.

ducati
24-Feb-10, 14:40
It's a crazy world we live in where the guy/girl that sits in their own home quietly enjoying a smoke or whatever and bothering no-one gets labeled "scum of the earth druggie" or whatever, but the guy/girl that goes out, gets blootered, causes noise, disruption, fighting, littering etc is "just out having a good time and had a bit too much drink"! :confused

What if it was the other way round and it was alcohol that was illegal!?
I bet there would be a few changed opinions then!

But it's not you spanner that's the point. And if some of the lucid comments here are anything to go by long may it stay illegal.

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 14:41
But it's not you spanner that's the point. And if some of the lucid comments here are anything to go by long may it stay illegal.

All hail Ducati... king of the world...:roll:

Invisible
24-Feb-10, 14:42
But it's not you spanner that's the point..

forget what i said before i want THIS on my gravestone

wicker8
24-Feb-10, 14:43
for me it would have to be a pub full of drunk people drugs are out for me

changilass
24-Feb-10, 14:43
'Come on guys keep it civilised.

There have been some good points made and its good to get a debate going on here again.

Lets not risk it getting closed just cos you cannae play nice.

ducati
24-Feb-10, 14:46
'Come on guys keep it civilised.

There have been some good points made and its good to get a debate going on here again.

Lets not risk it getting closed just cos you cannae play nice.

If there is an argument, for or against illegal drugs, which this thread is. Then it is already won for they are illegal.

Its not too hard to follow is it??

changilass
24-Feb-10, 14:48
If the argument is won, why do you feel the need to call someone a spanner then?

Not very nice and not needed.

Invisible
24-Feb-10, 14:56
The spanner was trying to twist things around

Bazeye
24-Feb-10, 15:07
Ok then, Im going to put the cat among the pigeons here. Most people have said drugs are illegal for a reason and thats why they shouldnt be taken. So, by that way of thinking, legal highs are ok then?

Invisible
24-Feb-10, 15:16
Sorry in advance if this seems a hijack but would you feel offended if one of your mates who you trust and have respect for comes to you and asks you if you have any Cannibis or any other drug? This happened to me and I was mortified that they would think I would, especially with my line of work.

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 15:21
Sorry in advance if this seems a hijack but would you feel offended if one of your mates who you trust and have respect for comes to you and asks you if you have any Cannibis or any other drug? This happened to me and I was mortified that they would think I would, especially with my line of work.

Um I am not a stalker or anything but I thought you worked in a solicitor's office or similar?
Solicitors are not exempt from smoking Cannabis, nor is ANY profession. You would probably be surprised at the number of teachers and health professionals which use.

If you were offended for any reason it should be because it's not in your character and you thought your friend should know that. Having any kind of job does not preclude the taking of drugs. Okay, possibly a few exemptions where there is routine random drug tests etc but then again we've all seen what athletes and footballers can get up to, and sometimes get away with.

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 15:22
Welcome to 2010, smoking indoors is not allowed.

Tobacco being smoked in places hasn't done anyone any good for years.

Your response is invalid, try again.

I think he still lives in the past, still seems to use dial up when he has broadband available.

roadbowler
24-Feb-10, 15:26
changi, aye it is illegal, but, i'm asking people to think about why it is illegal. Recreational use and its effects has nothing to do with it. Therefore, we do not need to debate or find a valid argument to legalise it for recreational use. There are plenty of reasons to legalise it as has been pointed out. There is nothing keeping the government from legalising it yet still prosecuting people for misuse, sale, manufacturing with intent to supply for misuse etc of the substance as a recreational drug as is the case with say pharmaceuticals and other substances. It's like saying let's ban tobacco because there is a possibility an underager may get ahold of it and use it. Lets ban cars because someone may get in it drunk and drive and kill someone. Cars are very useful, we'll keep those. Well, cannabis has proven to be even more useful and less dangerous than cars. So, again, what are the real reasons it is banned?

Boozeburglar
24-Feb-10, 15:36
I am a High Court Judge, and I find it helps to get in the mood before work.

Find I can get into the frame of mind of the perps much more easily.

By the way spelling or grammar police, go find someone who gives a tinker's for your opinion.

;)

ducati
24-Feb-10, 15:38
Ok then, Im going to put the cat among the pigeons here. Most people have said drugs are illegal for a reason and thats why they shouldnt be taken. So, by that way of thinking, legal highs are ok then?

The money you pay for your harmless "weed" goes to organised crime and terrorists, nowhere else-Get It?

Anyway, I have better things to do than argue with a bunch of Junkies so I'm off this thread

northener
24-Feb-10, 15:41
Exactly my point. They can tax alcohol and fags because no one can make that themselves easily.

If they can't tax it, make it illegal then get money from prosecuting them.

Home brewed beer and wine is easy (and legal).

You can legally grow tobacco (again, pretty easy) providing you use it for your own consumption - you aren't allowed to even give it FOC to a friend, mind.

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 15:42
By the way spelling or grammar police, go find someone who gives a tinker's for your opinion.

;)

People who have brought up the literacy of a certain poster in this thread are not spelling or grammar police. Those are people who pick on every little thing. In this case they are pointing out that the person's post is near illegible. I for one did read it but if people insist on continuing to post like that I soon stop. Not worth it IMO. I know, I know - you are going to tell me they don't care if I don't read what they say. That is also fair enough.

slinky
24-Feb-10, 15:44
changi, aye it is illegal, but, i'm asking people to think about why it is illegal. Recreational use and its effects has nothing to do with it. Therefore, we do not need to debate or find a valid argument to legalise it for recreational use. There are plenty of reasons to legalise it as has been pointed out. There is nothing keeping the government from legalising it yet still prosecuting people for misuse, sale, manufacturing with intent to supply for misuse etc of the substance as a recreational drug as is the case with say pharmaceuticals and other substances. It's like saying let's ban tobacco because there is a possibility an underager may get ahold of it and use it. Lets ban cars because someone may get in it drunk and drive and kill someone. Cars are very useful, we'll keep those. Well, cannabis has proven to be even more useful and less dangerous than cars. So, again, what are the real reasons it is banned?

in the 1930s, the U.S. government and the media began spreading outrageous lies about marijuana thats why

another topic
why is it that people get on marijuana, they get hooked and become "potheads," and it begins to dominate their lives. This unquestionably happens in some cases. But it also happens in the case of alcohol--and alcohol is perfectly legal.

ducati
24-Feb-10, 15:45
[quote=slinky;filthy poll lol who are u to decide noticed uve put ur tuppence in a rake of posts thinking ur e boy il post wot i like when i like and if its a poll i want to discusss i certainley will ,[/quote]

Very lucid:roll:

onecalledk
24-Feb-10, 15:47
why wot do u know, we dont ,u dont get drug dealers randomley hassling people , i see no harm in it if theres no minors involved ,in most cases its people buying of close mates i see no harm in smoking pot everyone to there own i guess ,its the goverment who should be hanged for allowing drink to be legal and not weed when every day u read about drinkers killing each other people killing themselves starting fights we random strangers aggessive behavior ,glassing knifing people ,drink changes people for the worst thats why i dont drink i realised that but unfortunaltley its everywhere adverts steet corners shops no wonder kids are changing for the worst im 28 , im going to start a poll infact


that is what is so wrong about drugs in the first place, all illegal drugs fund some sort of organised crime, this includes human trafficking ,prostitution etc. So everytime someone buys a little bit of weed for example they are by buying it funding crime, prostitution, trafficking etc .........

Its not so much what the effects are of the drug you take, its the route the drugs took to get to you. Teenagers/adults may well buy a bit of weed from their mates but if you followed the process back to the supplier you would find that its the thin edge of a very large wedge. .....

Perhaps a drunk person is more of a danger than a stoned person but the drunk person is not inadvertently funding a much much more serious threat to society .....

K

slinky
24-Feb-10, 15:51
Kills literacy thoughwho are u a teacher like get a grip ,i can spell well and talk politley but when im typing i couldnt care less u knew wat i meant not as if i said wwho aerr uuu e tatcher lkie tge a girp .:roll:

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 15:52
that is what is so wrong about drugs in the first place, all illegal drugs fund some sort of organised crime, this includes human trafficking ,prostitution etc. So everytime someone buys a little bit of weed for example they are by buying it funding crime, prostitution, trafficking etc .........

Its not so much what the effects are of the drug you take, its the route the drugs took to get to you. Teenagers/adults may well buy a bit of weed from their mates but if you followed the process back to the supplier you would find that its the thin edge of a very large wedge. .....

Perhaps a drunk person is more of a danger than a stoned person but the drunk person is not inadvertently funding a much much more serious threat to society .....

K

The dealers the police are dealing with at the moment are not so involved with this side of it. By getting rid of them the demand will still be there and will draw in more suppliers from the big organised gangs.

changilass
24-Feb-10, 15:52
onecalledk:- that would be an argument for legalising it.

If it was legal then the proceeds wouldn't go towards organised crime.

It could then be taxed like everything else and bring more money into the government coffers.




Serenity:- where are the local (non organised crime) dealers getting their supplies from?

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 15:53
Well done...nicely said.

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 15:56
Exactly...why create another problem!!

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 15:58
Serenity:- where are the local (non organised crime) dealers getting their supplies from?

Well most of the ones I am seeing in the papers are home growers. The police know they are easy to get and are ignoring the ones who are involved with organised crime and bring stuff in from elsewhere. It's harder to get them. Also I think there is definitely a problem with worse drugs in Wick and no-one is stopping the dealers of those. TBH I don't know how true that is but there are a few people you see around Wick that look like that are on hard drugs.

Connor.
24-Feb-10, 15:58
Home brewed beer and wine is easy (and legal).

You can legally grow tobacco (again, pretty easy) providing you use it for your own consumption - you aren't allowed to even give it FOC to a friend, mind.

I know, but the thing I meant is, alot of people won't be bothered to do it themselves. You have to get the equipment and all the necessory accesories to start brewing or growing tobacco.



why is it that people get on marijuana, they get hooked and become "potheads"

That's just another label, i'm pretty sure people who use it are not always going to become addicted.

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 15:59
That's just another label, i'm pretty sure people who use it are not always going to become addicted.

Nice quote picking. They said straight after that SOME not all.

Boozeburglar
24-Feb-10, 16:00
Like Viagra?

Bazeye
24-Feb-10, 16:03
The money you pay for your harmless "weed" goes to organised crime and terrorists, nowhere else-Get It?

Anyway, I have better things to do than argue with a bunch of Junkies so I'm off this thread

So, I take it that legal highs are ok then, as the money doesnt go to organised crime and terrorists. And whenever I do buy some harmless "weed", I buy it off a friend who grows it and as far as Im aware hes not involved in organised crime or terrorism. Oh, sorry, I forgot, you wont answer this will you as you just threw your toys out of the pram.

Connor.
24-Feb-10, 16:04
If anything I was backing up the fact, if not emphasising that alot of people will just associate.

Thanks for correcting me though, never noticed the bit after.

Boozeburglar
24-Feb-10, 16:04
The money you pay for your harmless "weed" goes to organised crime and terrorists, nowhere else-Get It?

Anyway, I have better things to do than argue with a bunch of Junkies so I'm off this thread

Junkies?

Terrorists?

My goodness.

I had NO idea!

I am literally funding terror.

My God, that changes my perspective.

I will not sleep tonight.

:(

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 16:06
If anything I was backing up the fact, if not emphasising that alot of people will just associate.

Thanks for correcting me though, never noticed the bit after.
Sorry I did think actually think afterwards that was what you are doing. Just annoys me as certain posters on here have done that to me. Pick certain parts out of your post, take it out of context and twist it. Totally illogical.

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 16:07
But it's not you spanner that's the point.


forget what i said before i want THIS on my gravestone

Going off topic - but I cannot see any context in which that makes sense on a gravestone. Been puzzling about it for a while. Please put me out my misery.

slinky
24-Feb-10, 16:10
True, but it's a valid argument all the same. Alcohol affects lives everyday, probably more so than drugs do. Each is equally disturbing, yet alcohol is legal.

It's a bit backwards of the government to legalize alcohol but to leave cannabis illegal.

I'm dead against harder drugs being legalized, but I think cannabis should be re-legalized.
wise words :)

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 16:11
Extra option added to poll to balance things out.

Moderator

Why has an extra option been added to this one? There have been LOADS of polls on here without all the possible options. My favourite being the "Do You Believe in God" one. Which has no option for agnostics because the OP decided that agnostics don't exist and they all must be athiests. Hardly fair allowing that one and changing this one.
The way rules are implemented when it suits the mods and not when it doesn't annoys me. As does the invention of imaginary rules when they feel like it.

Thumper
24-Feb-10, 16:15
Not everyone who uses it gets addicted-quite right but a LOT do and then move on to other stronger substances to get a "high" they used to get from some grass and then before they know it they are addicted to stronger more powerful drugs that not only cost a lot but DO do serious damage.TBH until you yourself have seen firsthand the damage drugs can do you will never understand and people will always argue that using it is "safe" but once you have seen someone on the bones of their ass and totally down and out because of a "recreational drug" you would never say its harmless again x

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 16:18
Not everyone who uses it gets addicted-quite right but a LOT do and then move on to other stronger substances to get a "high" they used to get from some grass and then before they know it they are addicted to stronger more powerful drugs that not only cost a lot but DO do serious damage.TBH until you yourself have seen firsthand the damage drugs can do you will never understand and people will always argue that using it is "safe" but once you have seen someone on the bones of their ass and totally down and out because of a "recreational drug" you would never say its harmless again x

Same argument really for alcohol and cigarettes then. There will be people who use them and then think cannabis is not a huge leap which then goes onto your point.
There will always be people who will take it to the next step and people who get addicted. Will we ban alcohol and cigarettes too?

Connor.
24-Feb-10, 16:24
Will we ban alcohol and cigarettes too?

No, because the government can tax those things ;)

ducati
24-Feb-10, 16:31
So, I take it that legal highs are ok then, as the money doesnt go to organised crime and terrorists. And whenever I do buy some harmless "weed", I buy it off a friend who grows it and as far as Im aware hes not involved in organised crime or terrorism. Oh, sorry, I forgot, you wont answer this will you as you just threw your toys out of the pram.

Growing Cannabis?? Which part of organised crime do you not understand? ;)

Thumper
24-Feb-10, 16:32
Same argument really for alcohol and cigarettes then. There will be people who use them and then think cannabis is not a huge leap which then goes onto your point.
There will always be people who will take it to the next step and people who get addicted. Will we ban alcohol and cigarettes too?
Not really the point,yes they all do damage but more people get addicted to the quick high that drugs give easier than they do to drink-which does take longer to get addicted to in MOST cases,there is also the fact that a lot of people taking drugs do so after they have had a drink or two anyway,as I said before if you havnt seen the damage or indeed take drugs yourself you will always be quicker to defend them,but when you have seen the damage it will make most think twice about just how "recreational" this dirt is.Please do not take offence to my posting,I am not getting at you,but I wish one of my relatives had seen the damage taking "a little bit of weed" was going to cause them-before it happened! x

S&LHEN
24-Feb-10, 16:48
I put neither as one is just as bad as the other both affect your mind body and even your soul and the people around you that love and care for you get hurt to. when mis-used ie alcohol can make you do things you wouldnt dream of doing in a million years and at the time you think your doing nothing wrong its when you see the hurt it causes it sinks in but by then its too late,
My uncle chocked on his own vomit aged 25 from having a good night out (to much drink) and the family but more so (my granny and his twin brother) never got over it.
I can also comment on drugs as my x bestfriend started taking it years ago when we were in school (she was lovely,kind,caring would help anybody) and she like so many others started on cannibus and she totally changed, you couldnt have a normal conversation with her, she had no consentration her eyes were glazed she got really depressed and paranoid and not long after she started on harder drugs she started stealing from her mum and dad and nobody could trust her she would do and say anything for money -- needless to say were not friends anymore and I cant honestly tell you if shes living or not she moved off to Glasgow with her New cool mates years back!!![disgust]
So no one on here can tell me that drugs are ok (its drugs that make you think it is!) / alcohol mis-use. and both together is deadly.
The only one point I will make about drink is at least if you go out and you get a wee bit drunk chances are you will have a sore head etc but once it wares off your ok as for a night of drugs your mind is never the same it screws it up completely.

slinky
24-Feb-10, 16:53
No cannabis should not be legalised , i used to be a disc jockey and cannabis being smoked in places i was playing at does not do NORMAL pub/club visitors any favours by having to breath it in all night long with no escape from the fumes by these people who cannot seem to have a good time unless they are on cloud number 9smoking illegal now in pubs or clubs so wot u on about?maybe u should relax more mate:lol:

RELAX
24-Feb-10, 16:55
smoking illegal now in pubs or clubs so wot u on about?maybe u should relax more mate:lol:
yep i see your point , i was thinking in past tense when pubs were pubs and sheep were scared.

onecalledk
24-Feb-10, 16:56
If alcohol was to be put forward to be licenced these days it would fail due to all the medical concerns surrounding the consumption of alcohol. THAT is the main difference between drugs and alcohol which is also a drug!

THere is NO SUCH thing as a safe drug, be it alcohol, weed etc. Even a licenced drug such as paracetamol is deadly to some. There are two sides of the same coin.

Those who used drugs and dont drink will always come out with the stance that they dont harm people unlike drunks that do but fail to see the harm that the drug is really doing, whether this be to society or to their own bodies.

There is a growing (no pun intended here) evidence that the cannabis that is grown today is something like 6 times stronger than that which was smoked in the 6os for example. Cannabis smoking in young adult males INCREASES The risk of mental illness. Unfortunatley by the time you realise that this is happening it is too late, the damage cannot be undone. YOu are playing a lottery every time you light up, you might get away with it or at some point in your late twenties end up being sectioned.........

Drink, well it doesnt take much to become alcohol dependant and again its too late once you realise that is what is happening to you because the alcohol would reek havoc with your body by then .......

Teenagers and young people seem to think that they have all the answers, just as we thought when we were younger however the dangers that face them now FAR outweigh the dangers we had when young. It was getting caught drinking that was the danger when i was younger for example.

THose who go to their dealers for a bit of cannabis and get offered harder drugs will perhaps be the minority but EVERYONE who is addicted to Heroin for example started on "soft" drugs first. No one goes out and just injects heroin straight off with no other drug ever being involved .......

So for the young person here defending drugs amongst teenagers, MAKE AN INFORMED decision ...... if you want to risk serious mental health issues then go ahead but please dont fool yourself you are not risking anything by not drinking ......

K

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 17:00
Have to admit, this thread is laughable now.

Ducati, get over yourself. Junkies? Aye, I'll just take the needle out of my arm right now shall I?

I know a lot of people who smoke pot, I know that a majority of them have never taken anything harder than that. But I'm willing to accept that some do go on to harder drugs.

I know a lot of people who drink alcohol, I know that a lot of them have never taken drugs, but I know a lot of people who go to a club on a Saturday night and take cocaine, speed or ecstasy.

People will argue that drugs lead to other drugs, alcohol is no different in this respect.

I know of people who are on drugs who have committed crimes, not always violent, usually theft to feed their habit(but I'm not totally ignorant, it can lead to violent crime also). Look in the paper every week and you'll see the number of people committing violent crimes are usually under the influence of alcohol. I'd rather be stolen from than be given a kick in.

Kids start smoking cigarettes at a younger age than ever before, people who take cannabis usually smoked tobacco first. Surely tobacco is a feeder drug to smoking cannabis? You know, going by some of the posts in this thread... one thing always leads to another.

Drugs do indeed ruin lives, Heroin, Cocaine, Crack, Crystal Meth... they can really mess users up, and the people around them. Alcohol can do the same, it affects every part of the human body. It also has a terrible effect on people around them.

Funny, I never liked smoking, I tried it. It was awful. I tried cannabis when I was 19 and it was fine. Never got addicted. It never ever made me violent or out of control. People will argue that you can whitey and be sick, alcohol gives you a hangover and you'll be sick.

We'll all have to agree to disagree. Each group have their reasons for re-legalisation/keeping it illegal.

I personally think cannabis should be legal, it's not harmless... yeah, you'll maybe get bronchitis, yeah if you smoke it you'll maybe get problems with your lungs, it may lead to memory problems and all the other bad stuff that comes with it.

Alcohol/Cigarettes are just as bad. Nobody can deny the terrible effects that they have on families every day. I'm not putting cannabis up to be a great thing, but I think people should perhaps look at both sides instead of blindly thinking...

http://hkham.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/hm36drugs-are-bad-posters.jpg

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 17:02
POST

I didn't quote the whole post as there's no need, but a good post K

slinky
24-Feb-10, 17:03
The only one point I will make about drink is at least if you go out and you get a wee bit drunk chances are you will have a sore head etc but once it wares off your ok as for a night of drugs your mind is never the same it screws it up completely.

never heard so much rubbish in all my life with that statement sore head :) do it every week or few nights like most and down the line ul have health problems so wots different with with weed its the known truth potheads are better behaved and mannered in public every day

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 17:05
Jeid - this is the org. You are not allowed to be sensible, see two sides of the situation and make a well informed post.
What I mean is - that is spot on!

S&LHEN
24-Feb-10, 17:11
your entitled to your opinion, maybe the wording could have been better but im sure you got the jist.
But dont totally agree with your better mannered better behaved bit - but thats life.



never heard so much rubbish in all my life with that statement sore head :) do it every week or few nights like most and down the line ul have health problems so wots different with with weed its the known truth potheads are better behaved and mannered in public every day

golach
24-Feb-10, 17:19
Just a few ramdom sites, telling the truth about Cannabis, and why it should be legalised[disgust]


http://www.talktofrank.com/drugs.aspx?id=172

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfo/problems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabis.aspx

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/cannabis/effects.htm

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 17:24
Jeid - this is the org. You are not allowed to be sensible, see two sides of the situation and make a well informed post.
What I mean is - that is spot on!

Cheers for that :)

I expect someone to disagree fairly soon..

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 17:29
Wow.....Intelligent posts on a thought provoking subject.... Liked Jeid...OnecalledK posts as they basically describe the situation well.
My thought has always been....why create another problem legalizing Mary Jane and the likes...
Yes, the THC content of Hydroponic weed has increased quite dramatically....plus it is very difficult to test for Narcotics in the person...
Plus in alcohol you receive a sealed bottle, knowing that it is true and pure to it's ingredents....possible with the exception of the stuff you can get locally...anyone in Caithness still doing it?? Or from the Distillery....BUT with Marihuana etc you never know what you are getting.
Where I am there are continuing warnings of people putting burnt oil in the hash oil, rat poison in the coke when they are cutting it....and all sorts of other life threatening crazy things.
But to each his/her own.....whatever turns one's crank!!

ducati
24-Feb-10, 17:49
Interesting-the first time I get bad repped it's by a "chilled out" pot head [lol]

slinky
24-Feb-10, 17:49
Wow.....Intelligent posts on a thought provoking subject.... Liked Jeid...OnecalledK posts as they basically describe the situation well.
My thought has always been....why create another problem legalizing Mary Jane and the likes...
Yes, the THC content of Hydroponic weed has increased quite dramatically....plus it is very difficult to test for Narcotics in the person...
Plus in alcohol you receive a sealed bottle, knowing that it is true and pure to it's ingredents....possible with the exception of the stuff you can get locally...anyone in Caithness still doing it?? Or from the Distillery....BUT with Marihuana etc you never know what you are getting.
Where I am there are continuing warnings of people putting burnt oil in the hash oil, rat poison in the coke when they are cutting it....and all sorts of other life threatening crazy things.
But to each his/her own.....whatever turns one's crank!!ur saying burnt oil etc put in it yes ur right diesel its called lol but if it was legalized surley the goverment could produce some good hash or some good bud

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 17:52
Interesting-the first time I get bad repped it's by a "chilled out" pot head [lol]
Just because they don't agree with what you say doesn't mean they're a pothead :roll:

ducati
24-Feb-10, 17:54
Just because they don't agree with what you say doesn't mean they're a pothead :roll:

Eh? Have I missed the whole point of this thread? :eek:

slinky
24-Feb-10, 17:56
Just because they don't agree with what you say doesn't mean they're a pothead :roll:
lol maybe the pot head dosent like the straight head:lol:[lol]

Serenity
24-Feb-10, 17:58
Eh? Have I missed the whole point of this thread? :eek:
Well if you think everyone who can see both sides of the argument and realises the possible benefits of legislation is a pothead then that is your problem.

ducati
24-Feb-10, 18:00
Well if you think everyone who can see both sides of the argument and realises the possible benefits of legislation is a pothead then that is your problem.

Nope-lost me there I'm afraid

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 18:01
I don't think it's a bad thing, you've hardly contributed anything intelligent to this thread anyway

ducati
24-Feb-10, 18:04
I don't think it's a bad thing, you've hardly contributed anything intelligent to this thread anyway

Thats because we are thinking in different ways (I haven't been taking mind altering drugs) [lol]

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 18:10
But we all know it will never be legalized....who can do it. Yes it has been discussed by groups both non Gov't and Gov't, pro & con weed, but it is such a non starter.
So you would buy it but it is illegal to sell it...Some places do have I think a 14 grams max., so if you are caught with less than that it is just a fine or not, like having booze illegally.
Some Gov'ts are presently growing it for Medicinal purposes/ apparently it does help MS sufferers and is used for pain, but these are just experimental at the present time.
So don't hold your breath.. Mr/Ms Slinky/ it aint gonna go!

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 18:12
Thats because we are thinking in different ways (I haven't been taking mind altering drugs) [lol]

Still contributing intelligently I see...

Oh you're just the bestest aren't you!

As I said earlier... all hail king Ducati. :roll:

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 18:15
ur saying burnt oil etc put in it yes ur right diesel its called lol but if it was legalized surley the goverment could produce some good hash or some good bud

I do declare I think you know of what you talk. Perhaps you could give us uninitiated, some pointers on where to get the stuff?? I mean good stuff...perhaps honey oil?
I am sure this could be fun....

ChuckBuscuits
24-Feb-10, 18:19
If there is an argument, for or against illegal drugs, which this thread is. Then it is already won for they are illegal.

Its not too hard to follow is it??

thought this thread was a discussion,not an argument,or did i misread the
first post?
or am i too drunk/stoned to read?[para]

ducati
24-Feb-10, 18:26
Still contributing intelligently I see...

Oh you're just the bestest aren't you!

As I said earlier... all hail king Ducati. :roll:

All right, you want intelligent input? Some on this thread are advocating the legalisation of Weed. Fine have a debate. But others are rubbing are noses in the fact that they happily indulge in illegal narcotics and it does no harm. So we extrapolate from that, that it is OK to do anything you like that is illegal because you like it. With me so far?

So to recap any law you don't like, don’t see the sense of, is inconvenient, just break it. It does no harm!

Anarchy anyone?

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 18:26
thought this thread was a discussion,not an argument,or did i misread the first post? or am i too drunk/stoned to read?[para]
No you're right biscuits. Discussion not on the rights and wrongs, but what should be done to those who spoil our County by selling illegal drugs. I don't remember saying anything about any particular drug being dealt but people seem to have just jumped onto the 'legalise cannabis - it does no harm compared to booze' train.
However anyone who thinks that cannabis is the only drug we have in circulation here is a bit naive. Ecstasy & speed seem to be common, I suppose there will be coke doing the rounds; I've even encountered a mainline junkie or two up here.
There's no doubt that booze is bad. But when you consider the tales of woe from South, of druggies stealing from pensioners or killing their kids, murdering in hallucinated LSD state, or suffering psychosis brought on by continued use of cannabis, one wonders what benefits any of these things bring.
So dealers - what do we do with them?

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 18:32
All right, you want intelligent input? Some on this thread are advocating the legalisation of Weed. Fine have a debate. But others are rubbing our noses in the fact that they happily indulge in illegal narcotics and it does no harm. So we extrapolate from that, that it is OK to do anything you like that is illegal because you like it. With me so far?

So to recap any law you don't like, don’t see the sense of, is inconvenient, just break it. It does no harm!

Anarchy anyone?

People do indeed indulge in it illegally, if they want to take it, it's the only way they can.

Seems like you're just trolling. Coming into a thread and calling people junkies is hardly a way to make people respect anything you have to say.

Going by your previous posts in this and other threads, I don't think I'm far off with my guesstimations.

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 18:33
No you're right biscuits. Discussion not on the rights and wrongs, but what should be done to those who spoil our County by selling illegal drugs. I don't remember saying anything about any particular drug being dealt but people seem to have just jumped onto the 'legalise cannabis - it does no harm compared to booze' train.
However anyone who thinks that cannabis is the only drug we have in circulation here is a bit naive. Ecstasy & speed seem to be common, I suppose there will be coke doing the rounds; I've even encountered a mainline junkie or two up here.
There's no doubt that booze is bad. But when you consider the tales of woe from South, of druggies stealing from pensioners or killing their kids, murdering in hallucinated LSD state, or suffering psychosis brought on by continued use of cannabis, one wonders what benefits any of these things bring.
So dealers - what do we do with them?

Fair enough Tubby. I do however think you've jumped into the wrong thread, you've got your one about Drug Dealers further down the page.


Ooops, nope, the mods have combined this one, another pointless move by C.org mods... well done.

ducati
24-Feb-10, 18:35
People do indeed indulge in it illegally, if they want to take it, it's the only way they can.



Well I can only rob banks and steel cars illegally. Are you deliberately missing the point?

ChuckBuscuits
24-Feb-10, 18:37
(I haven't been taking mind altering drugs) [lol]
are you sure?:eek:

StacNKel
24-Feb-10, 18:40
i think this is the sort of thread which makes the orgers go mad and fall out with each other!

Currently cannabis IS illegal there are people who would like it legalized and people who think it should stay classed as an illegal substance. Personally in my own opinion if it where legalized the "drug dealers" and the likes would not make any money through it and would just sell harder more harmful drugs so as to make a pound or two.

Cannabis CAN and DOES cause a lot of phycological problems with long term abuse and usually its the start of a slippery slope to getting into harder more addictive drugs for the younger people. But then alcohol is just as bad and in my opinion worse as its so easy to get and cheap to buy the amount of people who die from its misuse is stupidly high! I watched my own dad die through abusing alcohol his whole life and have lost numerous other family/friends due to the same thing. So you have to then wonder if cannabis was legalized would the health problems from the misuse of cannabis be so obvious as it is with alcohol? I think so........

To answer the thread i wouldn't feel safer with either at the end of the day they are still intoxicated in whatever way.

ducati
24-Feb-10, 18:41
are you sure?:eek:

Yes I am. I am however very angry that this thread is allowed. If all these illigal drug users were where they should be (in Jail) they wouldn't have the opportunity to be on here. :mad:

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 18:41
Well I can only rob banks and steel cars illegally. Are you deliberately missing the point?

I'm not missing the point. But are you deliberately being obtuse? People take drugs, people steal cars, people kill people.

I just don't see the problem with people smoking a joint or two now and again. It's as harmful as smoking a cigarette. Perhaps YOU are reading into things way too much

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 18:42
Yes I am. I am however very angry that this thread is allowed. If all these illigal drug users were where they should be (in Jail) they wouldn't have the opportunity to be on here. :mad:

There's only one thing for your postings...

http://files.myopera.com/Mysticmaster/blog/facepalm.jpg

ducati
24-Feb-10, 18:50
There's only one thing for your postings...



So you didn't want an Intelligent discussion then? Just someone to agree with you

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 18:57
Nah, plenty of people have disagreed with me. But they've not been so ignorant as yourself.

It seems that if you don't agree with it, a thread shouldn't be allowed

ducati
24-Feb-10, 18:59
Nah, plenty of people have disagreed with me. But they've not been so ignorant as yourself.

It seems that if you don't agree with it, a thread shouldn't be allowed

Serves me right for trying to reason with a.....what do you like to be called?

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 19:02
The discussion on the pros and cons of Drug Use has been going on since the 70's ..maybe before that. Take the US Presidents...some used it but didn't inhale/ others just used it...like the current Pres...we all have our opinions on it///mine is NO.
Like many other things, if a person decides that is the way to go then let him/her bear the consequences if and when caught.
Alcohol is a problem so why legalize/ decriminalize another problem...But it is likely the most talked about issue around the World.
All have an opinion, but Slinky won't tell us where to get a sample!!

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 19:04
Serves me right for trying to reason with a.....what do you like to be called?


Come on Children... tut tut!

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 19:04
Serves me right for trying to reason with a.....what do you like to be called?

I don't really have much time to waste on trolls tbh

roadbowler
24-Feb-10, 19:06
what exactly is wrong in your eyes of an anarchist system ducati? Lol

Slinky, afraid not. That is not why they criminalised it. What you think is the reason is only the smoke and mirrors. There was a much larger issue at stake.

Connor, homebrew and tobacco do not require loads of special equipment.

Mind when they banned potters asthma cigarettes? They took them off the market, problem solved. No more kiddies going off their nuts eating the stuff. It was the dried datura that was psychotropic. Anyone can still grow datura legally and acquire the same
effect but, never hear about people growing datura for recreational use. Same can be said for lots of plants and other perfectly legal natural substances. My second thought on that is i think a lot of people try it and take cannabis simply because its been banned. If it's banned, it must be good, right?!

Illegal drugs being sold on the street equals organised crime? Legal drugs sold everywhere with government taking a massive cut in taxes equals what then??

People act like cannabis has just only been discovered for its medicinal qualities. It has been used therapeutically for several thousand years.

Tubs, if they aint in a school ground enticing kids to buy they are not pushers. If people demand something they are denied to grow themselves by our hypocritical government and someone supplies it to them,this is what is known as a community service.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 19:11
Tubs, if they aint in a school ground enticing kids to buy they are not pushers. If people demand something they are denied to grow themselves by our hypocritical government and someone supplies it to them,this is what is known as a community service.
Interesting. An arbitrary division, allowed/not allowed, between those who push to kids and those who don't regardless of the type of drug and the consequences.
Calls into question the concept of 'law' really doesn't it? By your standards the same could apply to an individual who was selling illegal firearms.

roadbowler
24-Feb-10, 19:30
no, tubs, not really. This is about legalities not law. They are different. Legalities fall under statutes. Statutes are given the 'force' of law by the consent of the governed. The only laws are the common law, based on do not harm people, do not harm or steal property and do not make mischief in your contracts. So, the supplier supplying on demand is not breaking the law but, the pusher is.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 19:45
I'm not an expert, but that seems pretty unlikely. In that case, why have you made any distinction between pushing to adults and to children if there is no basis in law?
Smells a bit if you ask me.

changilass
24-Feb-10, 19:51
If the supplier supplying on demand is not breaking the law, then how come the woman that made the chocolates got done for it even though she was only supplying to other folks with MS - the legal system obviously thought she was breaking the law.

fred
24-Feb-10, 19:53
Why is cannabis illegal, because it is wonderful, so wonderful a lot of people stood to lose a lot of money.

Why is cannabis wonderful? Well first of all it is a prolific weed which will grow just about anywhere and it is self fertilising and doesn't need pesticides. It doesn't need artificial fertiliser to make it grow so the petrochemical industry who were making fertiliser as a by product stood to lose a lot of money. A form of plastic could be made from it too. It could make paper superior and cheaper than wood so people who had invested in forests in South America stood to lose a lot of money. The seeds are highly nutritious and contain a lot of oil, cannabis can produce fuel as cheaply as the oil companies. If it were grown for biomass it could power Britain. It has many medicinal uses but being natural the drug companies could not patent it. And lastly, cannabis was causing a dramatic drop in the sales of alcohol in Britain before it became illegal, particularly among the working classes in the North of England because it was far cheaper, the alcohol industry was a very powerful lobby in those days, they stood to lose a lot of money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jokV8xlJTNE&feature=related

slinky
24-Feb-10, 20:05
Yes I am. I am however very angry that this thread is allowed. If all these illigal drug users were where they should be (in Jail) they wouldn't have the opportunity to be on here. :mad:
get a grip ya smoking a nice big fat joint at e end of e night and relaxing bothering no 1 wheres e harm in that hardley a jail sentence crime is it ,be good for the pisons eh lol there packed till e wittle already ,:roll:

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 20:11
get a grip ya smoking a nice big fat joint at e end of e night and relaxing bothering no 1 wheres e harm in that hardley a jail sentence crime is it ,be good for the pisons eh lol there packed till e wittle already ,:roll:
...Or shooting up, lying around glazed while the bairns are dirty and starving. Then getting the shakes and sweats, nip out to pilfer a TV from an old biddy to buy just one last wrap. Then we'll give it up. Trying to find a vein that hasnae collapsed, injecting between yer toes so it disnae show when you sell yer body to make enough for another wee wrap, the last one. You dinnae feel the humiliation as you're being used, cos ye ken ye'll get another hit. That last hit, then ye'll come aff it. I can leave it anytime, I can handle it.
Then you get lifted and the bairns get taken into care, but it's no' your fault, society made you that way, just one mair wee hit, I'm that upset the bairns got took aff us.
Bothering no-one, eh?

roadbowler
24-Feb-10, 20:24
tubs, might sound unlikely but open a blacks law dictionary or bouviers and then tell me just how unlikely it is. A statute is only given the force of law by consent of the governed. I'll say it again, by consent of the governed. Statutes work entirely on contracts you've consented to tacitly or othewise. That is it. Every single time you end up in court over a legality you will be convicted either because you plead guilty, admitting you consent to the statute or you plead not guilty so now there is confict which you have provided no remedy to resolve by other means making you guilty of dishonor in a contract. If there is conflict they have jurisdiction to adjudicate. They got you either way. This why minors and mentally insane get off with statuatory offences. They do not have capacity to contract. If it still sounds unlikely try The Law of Contract in Scotland by William MacBryde.

You know fine the distinction between supplying and pushing.

Changi, please see above and my post previous.

slinky
24-Feb-10, 20:26
...Or shooting up, lying around glazed while the bairns are dirty and starving. Then getting the shakes and sweats, nip out to pilfer a TV from an old biddy to buy just one last wrap. Then we'll give it up. Trying to find a vein that hasnae collapsed, injecting between yer toes so it disnae show when you sell yer body to make enough for another wee wrap, the last one. You dinnae feel the humiliation as you're being used, cos ye ken ye'll get another hit. That last hit, then ye'll come aff it. I can leave it anytime, I can handle it.
Then you get lifted and the bairns get taken into care, but it's no' your fault, society made you that way, just one mair wee hit, I'm that upset the bairns got took aff us.
Bothering no-one, eh?
shooting up i aint no scag head and never wil be im on about weed no harder drugs

changilass
24-Feb-10, 20:27
Its all just words Roadblower, otherwise our prisons wouldnae be overflowing.

Illegal is illegal no matter the colour ribbon you tie it up with.

fred
24-Feb-10, 20:27
...Or shooting up, lying around glazed while the bairns are dirty and starving. Then getting the shakes and sweats, nip out to pilfer a TV from an old biddy to buy just one last wrap. Then we'll give it up. Trying to find a vein that hasnae collapsed, injecting between yer toes so it disnae show when you sell yer body to make enough for another wee wrap, the last one. You dinnae feel the humiliation as you're being used, cos ye ken ye'll get another hit. That last hit, then ye'll come aff it. I can leave it anytime, I can handle it.
Then you get lifted and the bairns get taken into care, but it's no' your fault, society made you that way, just one mair wee hit, I'm that upset the bairns got took aff us.
Bothering no-one, eh?

I don't think anyone has ever shot up cannabis.

Going on for 30% of the population of Britain have smoked cannabis, if what you say were true then I think the country would be in a far worse state than it is.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 20:30
I bow to your superior knowledge RB. I confess I don't know the difference between pushing & supplying, but then I wasn't aware that there is no law against using or supplying illegal drugs. I made no claims to be any kind of legal expert.
But in the absence of any laws that specify illegality, how are we to deal with lawbreakers of any kidney?
I'm glad i'm not a judge :eek:

However, as I mentioned, I tend to think 'Where's the money?' in any case these days. This discussion shows why one never finds a poor solicitor or lawyer, eh?

Slinky; crack on mate - nothing anyone can do. You might as well ask the nearest polisman for some skins.

roadbowler
24-Feb-10, 20:31
fred, bingo.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 20:32
I don't think anyone has ever shot up cannabis.
Going on for 30% of the population of Britain have smoked cannabis, if what you say were true then I think the country would be in a far worse state than it is.
There's not much gets past you is there, was your father a greyhound? Who mentioned shooting up cannabis? Was this thread about cannabis? Have you addled your brain with cannabis?

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 20:35
shooting up i aint no scag head and never wil be im on about weed no harder drugs
My original thread was about drug dealers. You bang on about drugs doing no harm. My wee lines were just to illsutrate some of the misery that come about as a result of using illegal drugs. You're no skag heid, but are you sure you never will be? I'm certain there are sad junkie people in Wick and Thurso who said exactly the same thing.
But at least you figured out that it wasn't cannabis I was talking about shooting up...

unicorn
24-Feb-10, 20:35
I would rather spend my time alone than with either, I prefer normal conversation as opposed to garbled nonsense.

fred
24-Feb-10, 20:37
There's not much gets past you is there, was your father a greyhound? Who mentioned shooting up cannabis? Was this thread about cannabis? Have you addled your brain with cannabis?

But he post you were replying to only referred to cannabis, not to any other drug.

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 20:42
I was just scanning the other Subjects on the Org and saw that ShelleyBain was on about her TV...Now tell me, when we are having this overly serious conversation about the Pros & Cons of Drugs, how could other people be worried about a TV!
I don't know/ perhaps there should be a fine for not taking this seriously!
This has been some of the best comments for a while.....

roadbowler
24-Feb-10, 20:43
tubs, your telling me a supplier supplying demand is breaking the law. I'm saying it is breaking a statute. There is a difference. I'm saying pushing drugs is dodgy and would be considered breaking the law and statute. Btw you dont need to derogate other posters, just try coming up with a better argument! ;)

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 20:45
I'll say this slowly to you Fred
My post was a reply to thread
Which was about the dealer folk
Who peddle junk and smack and coke
As well as weed it must be said
Please try to see the picture Fred

What shall we do with dealers Fred
The folk that could result in dead
Caithnessians from an overdose
I'll try to not be too verbose
Nowhere did I quite specify
Which drugs, if any made them die

And granted there is much debate
'Bout cannabis vs bevvy mate
If you indulge too much it's true
It will have some effect on you
In moderation is the key
If goodly citizen you'd be

But some folk pack in drugs like sweets
And prostitutes who roam the streets
In freezing cold with bodies bare
In car to stolen moment share
With dirty perv who treats her bad
How would you feel were you her Dad?

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 20:47
tubs, your telling me a supplier supplying demand is breaking the law. I'm saying it is breaking a statute. There is a difference. I'm saying pushing drugs is dodgy and would be considered breaking the law and statute. Btw you dont need to derogate other posters, just try coming up with a better argument! ;)
RB, I haven't a clue. I simply can't understand how illegal drugs can't be breaking any law. Perhaps its the semantics. And who was I derogating? Fred?

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 20:48
Brilliant!

Connor.
24-Feb-10, 20:48
get a grip ya smoking a nice big fat joint at e end of e night and relaxing bothering no 1 wheres e harm in that hardley a jail sentence crime is it ,be good for the pisons eh lol there packed till e wittle already ,:roll:


...Or shooting up, lying around glazed while the bairns are dirty and starving. Then getting the shakes and sweats, nip out to pilfer a TV from an old biddy to buy just one last wrap. Then we'll give it up. Trying to find a vein that hasnae collapsed, injecting between yer toes so it disnae show when you sell yer body to make enough for another wee wrap, the last one. You dinnae feel the humiliation as you're being used, cos ye ken ye'll get another hit. That last hit, then ye'll come aff it. I can leave it anytime, I can handle it.
Then you get lifted and the bairns get taken into care, but it's no' your fault, society made you that way, just one mair wee hit, I'm that upset the bairns got took aff us.
Bothering no-one, eh?

The addition you put in had nothing to do with what slinky was speaking about. You directly made it into that.

There is a difference between cannabis and smack/crack/heroin. You might be implying it's a gateway drug. Which can be the case in such instances, however not all of them. You've put a spin on your post to make it look worse than it is.

Try and keep this balanced, it's not an argument, it's a discussion.

golach
24-Feb-10, 20:49
tubs, your telling me a supplier supplying demand is breaking the law. I'm saying it is breaking a statute. There is a difference. I'm saying pushing drugs is dodgy and would be considered breaking the law and statute. Btw you dont need to derogate other posters, just try coming up with a better argument! ;)
Suppliers, Dealers, Pushers & Promoters of any illegal substances should all be sent down, how anyone can profit from the weakness of others illegally is beyond me. Lowest of the low.
I took great joy as a Customs Officer in taking part in the capture and jailing of a few smugglers in my day.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 20:50
The addition you put in had nothing to do with what slinky was speaking about. You directly made it into that. There is a difference between cannabis and smack/crack/heroin. You might be implying it's a gateway drug. Which can be the case in such instances, however not all of them. You've put a spin on your post to make it look worse than it is. Try and keep this balanced, it's not an argument, it's a discussion.
Eh? It was my thread! And it is about drug dealers, not about the pros and cons of cannabis. I was adding a little reminder that 'illegal drugs' (or should that be breach of contract drugs??) relates to more than having a wee toke of an evening.

Connor.
24-Feb-10, 20:53
This makes me laugh.

I completely understand both sides of the argument. However, when it comes to what's illegal and not illegal. I've said it in another thread before. Just because the government say it's illegal doesn't mean they are right.

Laws in Britain are a joke. Doesn't put me up or down whether it's legal or not, if people want to use them then let them.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 20:55
However, when it comes to what's illegal and not illegal. I've said it in another thread before. Just because the government say it's illegal doesn't mean they are right.
Laws in Britain are a joke. Doesn't put me up or down whether it's legal or not, if people want to use them then let them.
Roadbowler - can you cast your eyes over this and give us some pointers??

roadbowler
24-Feb-10, 20:55
golach, yea sure but what about the pharmaceutical drug pushers and they are certainly pushers that i mentioned earlier. Surely youd like to see them go down too?

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 20:56
golach, yea sure but what about the pharmaceutical drug pushers and they are certainly pushers that i mentioned earlier. Surely youd like to see them go down too?
What is the actual difference between pusher and supplier RB? And surely you as a solicitor can see the difference between a tawdry smack-pushing pimp and a properly constituted company.

ducati
24-Feb-10, 20:57
Eh? It was my thread! And the post was about drug dealers, not about the pros and cons of cannabis. I was adding a little reminder that 'illegal drugs' (or should that be breach of contract drugs??) relates to more than having a wee toke of an evening.

It’s a real shame that your thread was merged with a completely unrelated one. The only thing they had in common was drugs. Yours was congratulating the police on making an impact getting the pushers off the streets of Caithness, the other was about why is weed illegal (maybe).

Anyway, respect for the porm may be the best yet :cool:

fred
24-Feb-10, 20:58
RB, I haven't a clue.

At last you've said something I can agree with.

golach
24-Feb-10, 21:00
golach, yea sure but what about the pharmaceutical drug pushers and they are certainly pushers that i mentioned earlier. Surely youd like to see them go down too?
If it can be proved that they are doing it illegally then yes I agree. I would jail the makers and marketers of Gaviscon

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 21:01
At last you've said something I can agree with.
Fred - be quiet please. Go and search for stolen kidneys hidden in a UFO behind a collapsed building somewhere.

Connor.
24-Feb-10, 21:06
I do agree with you Tubster to a certain extent.

I agree that anyone pushing chemicals and dealing those sort of drugs that can really harm someone should be stopped.

However, over something that grows out the ground...let's just ban strawberries aswell. They're just too damn delicious.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 21:07
...let's just ban strawberries aswell. They're just too damn delicious.
But OK in moderation of course...

Connor.
24-Feb-10, 21:13
As long as it's being used in a controlled environment. Sterlised properly and no sharing cream :cool:

roadbowler
24-Feb-10, 21:15
golach, gaviscon? Lmao. Go, on tell us yer beef wi gaviscon.

Tubs, solicitor? I find that a great insult. Isnt there a rule about insulting people? Lol I do not associate if all possible with the slippery tweed suit brigade. period.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 21:58
Sorry for any offence caused. Your legal knowledge led me to a false conclusion. Are you a lawyer?
Gol, that your bad guts giving you gyp again?? Open a window mate...

fred
24-Feb-10, 22:09
Sorry for any offence caused. Your legal knowledge led me to a false conclusion. Are you a lawyer?
Gol, that your bad guts giving you gyp again?? Open a window mate...

You don't need to be a lawyer to know the difference between a law and a statute.

Statutes are passed by parliament, they are upheld by the law of contract, we have all agreed to abide by statutes by being British citizens.

Laws are different, like the law against murder, there has never been an act of parliament making murder illegal, it is illegal because it is the law not because it is a statute passed by parliament.

Do you understand now?

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 22:18
You don't need to be a lawyer to know the difference between a law and a statute. Statutes are passed by parliament, they are upheld by the law of contract, we have all agreed to abide by statutes by being British citizens. Laws are different, like the law against murder, there has never been an act of parliament making murder illegal, it is illegal because it is the law not because it is a statute passed by parliament. Do you understand now?
Frankly no.
'...like the law against murder, there has never been an act of parliament making murder illegal, it is illegal because it is the law not because it is a statute passed by parliament.'

There's a law against murder, and murder is illegal because there's a law against murder; that's what you said there.

So there's a law against using heroin, and using heroin is illegal because there's a law against using heroin - have I got it right?

And I thought we were in Scotland?

Jeid
24-Feb-10, 22:21
Fred - be quiet please. Go and search for stolen kidneys hidden in a UFO behind a collapsed building somewhere.

I lol'd... seriously.

fred
24-Feb-10, 22:25
Frankly no.
'...like the law against murder, there has never been an act of parliament making murder illegal, it is illegal because it is the law not because it is a statute passed by parliament.'

There's a law against murder, and murder is illegal because there's a law against murder; that's what you said there.

So there's a law against using heroin, and using heroin is illegal because there's a law against using heroin - have I got it right?

And I thought we were in Scotland?

OK, so tell me which act of parliament makes murder illegal.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 22:27
OK, so tell me which act of parliament makes murder illegal.
WHAT? I'm asking you! You stated what I quoted, I'm trying to extend it into how heroin use is illegal!

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 22:29
I lol'd... seriously.
Can I borrow one of your facepalms please Jeid?

slinky
24-Feb-10, 22:32
My original thread was about drug dealers. You bang on about drugs doing no harm. My wee lines were just to illsutrate some of the misery that come about as a result of using illegal drugs. You're no skag heid, but are you sure you never will be? I'm certain there are sad junkie people in Wick and Thurso who said exactly the same thing.
But at least you figured out that it wasn't cannabis I was talking about shooting up...
i i aint stupid like ,couse i understand i just cant be assed anymore people slagging people of for a bit of reek ,i guaantee you if you get the police force to look through there records of ie trouble in citys killing and assualts rapes and deaths through driving offences even breach of the peaces .
i guarantee 99 percent is drink related
end of subject for me

changilass
24-Feb-10, 22:34
You don't need to be a lawyer to know the difference between a law and a statute.

Statutes are passed by parliament, they are upheld by the law of contract, we have all agreed to abide by statutes by being British citizens.

Laws are different, like the law against murder, there has never been an act of parliament making murder illegal, it is illegal because it is the law not because it is a statute passed by parliament.

Do you understand now?


You said it was illegal fred

Using this same rule then so is drug dealing/using.

Remember Fred I am using the above highlighted rules you yourself stated.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 22:49
Now now BB! Calm...
Breathe out..... and.... in..... and ..... out

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 22:52
i i aint stupid like ,couse i understand i just cant be assed anymore people slagging people of for a bit of reek ,i guaantee you if you get the police force to look through there records of ie trouble in citys killing and assualts rapes and deaths through driving offences even breach of the peaces . i guarantee 99 percent is drink related. end of subject for me
nobody denied that alcohol causes more crime than blaw the thing we were talking aboot is illegal drugs and that includes more than reek why did you have to take off at a tangent are you defending the smack dealers no-one was really getting at the casual dope heid. mebbe the hash has made you paranoid.

fred
24-Feb-10, 22:54
You said it was illegal fred

Using this same rule then so is drug dealing/using.

Remember Fred I am using the above highlighted rules you yourself stated.

Well yes, it is illegal under the laws of contract.

When someone is born their parents register them as a British citizen and as their legal guardian sign a contract that they will abide by the statutes passed by the British parliament.

It is illegal under the laws of contract, there is no law against taking drugs, only a statute.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 22:56
OK, so tell me which act of parliament makes murder illegal.
Do you see what he did there Stavros?
Made a statement which I tried to break down for clarity, then jumped down my throat for using the same information he'd just provided me with.
Sheesh! :roll:

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 22:59
Well yes, it is illegal under the laws of contract.
When someone is born their parents register them as a British citizen and as their legal guardian sign a contract that they will abide by the statutes passed by the British parliament. It is illegal under the laws of contract, there is no law against taking drugs, only a statute.
Which we ordinary people call THE LAW.
What is the situation as regards Scots Law in civil and criminal cases? Does a Barrister practice law? Do we speak about Civil and Criminal Law? Yes we do.
Go back to your conspiracies Fred, it's where you're comfortable.

Boozeburglar
24-Feb-10, 23:01
Well yes, it is illegal under the laws of contract.

When someone is born their parents register them as a British citizen and as their legal guardian sign a contract that they will abide by the statutes passed by the British parliament.

It is illegal under the laws of contract, there is no law against taking drugs, only a statute.


Crap.

It is against the Law.

You are talking crap.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 23:01
WHO, ME??:eek:

changilass
24-Feb-10, 23:02
Now we have the semantics sorted any chance of an answer to this, way back at post no 40.



I'd like to see a valid argument for legalising canabis, that does not include references to alchohol.

They are two seperate things, so why use the fact that one is legal to try to validate the legalising of the other?

golach
24-Feb-10, 23:06
golach, gaviscon? Lmao. Go, on tell us yer beef wi gaviscon.

Tubs, solicitor? I find that a great insult. Isnt there a rule about insulting people? Lol I do not associate if all possible with the slippery tweed suit brigade. period.

Sighs, do try to keep in touch with news RB

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8529182.stm

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 23:07
I went and had a look myself. Lots of mentions of Law.

Scots criminal law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law) relies far more heavily on Common Law than in England. Scots criminal law includes offences against the person of murder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder), culpable homicide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpable_homicide), rape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape) and assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault), offences against property such as theft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft) and malicious mischief, and public order offences such as mobbing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobbing) and breach of the peace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_the_peace). Some areas of criminal law, such as misuse of drugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_drugs) and traffic offences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_offences) appear identical on both sides of the Border (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_country). In fact, the Scots requirement of corroboration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corroboration) in criminal matters changes the practical prosecution of crimes derived from the same enactment.

So Misuse of Drugs is dealt with under Criminal Law, relying heavily on Common Law. Not Contract Law. The statute is the Misuse of Drugs Act.

Any comments Fred? Roadbowler?

Boozeburglar
24-Feb-10, 23:10
Forget about it.

Certain people on here only care about what they say, not whether it is true.

fred
24-Feb-10, 23:17
I went and had a look myself. Lots of mentions of Law.

Scots criminal law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law) relies far more heavily on Common Law than in England. Scots criminal law includes offences against the person of murder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder), culpable homicide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpable_homicide), rape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape) and assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault), offences against property such as theft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft) and malicious mischief, and public order offences such as mobbing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobbing) and breach of the peace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_the_peace). Some areas of criminal law, such as misuse of drugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_drugs) and traffic offences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_offences) appear identical on both sides of the Border (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_country). In fact, the Scots requirement of corroboration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corroboration) in criminal matters changes the practical prosecution of crimes derived from the same enactment.

Any comments Fred?

Well yes.

The offences listed under Scots common law are all laws, laws against one person causing harm to another person, that is what laws are for.

I don't see any reference in there about any law that a person cannot take drugs, that is a statute not a law, a person taking drugs only causes harm to themselves, not to another person.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 23:20
I despair, I really do. Does someone else want to pick this up? Please?

changilass
24-Feb-10, 23:24
Its taken over 160 posts to sort out the semantics and its still being argued about.

Politicians use this ploy to avoid answering questions they don't have an answer for.

Its not a new ploy Tubbs, certain posters use it all the time.


Not a hope in hell of ever gettin an answer, so gonna leave this one for now, its not worth it.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 23:26
The offences listed under Scots common law are all laws, laws against one person causing harm to another person, that is what laws are for. I don't see any reference in there about any law that a person cannot take drugs, that is a statute not a law, a person taking drugs only causes harm to themselves, not to another person.
Fred, the offences listed are all OFFENCES. They are dealt with under LAWS. Some Laws are enacted by Statutes. The Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 is a statute, if you kill someone at work you have committed an offence and broken the law.
How about the bit that says 'Some areas of criminal law, such as misuse of drugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_drugs)'...
Of course, in Fred-land, things might be different. I don't know what you're smoking but it sure shows the down side of hallucinations!

Boozeburglar
24-Feb-10, 23:28
Tubs, he is just talking poop.

sandyr1
24-Feb-10, 23:29
Wow, does Scotland still require corroboration.
In the 70's Murder was Contrary to Common Law
An attempt to commit an offence was Against The Peace, and then there were the Offences Against the Person Act, The Theft Act etc.etc.
In North America we are have all Codified Offences, thus the Criminal Code of Canada, and then Provincial(State) Statues for Liquor Offences, Highway Traffic Act etc.(More Minor Offences). i.e. Each one has a number......

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 23:39
Hey SandyR1! How do youse deal with drug dealers over in Canada? (and leave out any contract law stuff please!)

fred
24-Feb-10, 23:45
Fred, the offences listed are all OFFENCES. They are dealt with under LAWS. Some Laws are enacted by Statutes. The Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 is a statute, if you kill someone at work you have committed an offence and broken the law.
How about the bit that says 'Some areas of criminal law, such as misuse of drugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_drugs)'...
Of course, in Fred-land, things might be different. I don't know what you're smoking but it sure shows the down side of hallucinations!

Look, I didn't raise the point, someone else did.

You said you didn't understand so I took the trouble to explain it to you.

It's the way it is, believe it or not.

If you want to remain ignorant I don't care.

Boozeburglar
24-Feb-10, 23:53
Look, I didn't raise the point, someone else did.

You said you didn't understand so I took the trouble to explain it to you.

It's the way it is, believe it or not.

If you want to remain ignorant I don't care.

You are the ignorant one.

Murder is against the Law in Scotland.

Explain your view if it is different.

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 23:53
Look, I didn't raise the point, someone else did.
You said you didn't understand so I took the trouble to explain it to you.
It's the way it is, believe it or not. If you want to remain ignorant I don't care.
No Fred, you posted a load of rubbish; you don't understand it any more than I do, but at least I had the cojones to admit it.
And then I went off and had a look, and verified my suspicions, namely that

YOU ARE A CHANCER!

Tubthumper
24-Feb-10, 23:55
Murder is against the Law in Scotland.

No, it's a breach of contract under the Consumer Credit Act 2002. Technically the murderee can be prosecuted for failure to breathe, apparently. Trust me, my Dad was a lawyer...

Vistravi
25-Feb-10, 00:00
why wot do u know, we dont ,u dont get drug dealers randomley hassling people , i see no harm in it if theres no minors involved ,in most cases its people buying of close mates i see no harm in smoking pot everyone to there own i guess ,its the goverment who should be hanged for allowing drink to be legal and not weed when every day u read about drinkers killing each other people killing themselves starting fights we random strangers aggessive behavior ,glassing knifing people ,drink changes people for the worst thats why i dont drink i realised that but unfortunaltley its everywhere adverts steet corners shops no wonder kids are changing for the worst im 28 , im going to start a poll infact

So bascially alcohol is the big bad drug here not the illegal drug?

You're too biased for cannibis to even admit the bad points of it.

All substances change people and a overdose of anything is bad news for the overdoser. Alcohol abuse is a sign of something greater.

Good for you that you don't drink. I do drink but on the odd occasion and its only a few and never enough to get wasted. It is the people that abuse it that give it a bad name and make it a bad substance to have.

You however obviously take drugs and do you honestly think its doing you no harm? Alot of drugs have a physcolgical effect on people and change their behaviour often for the worst.

With speed you have premature aging and shrinking of gentials. Cocaine increases your chance of a heart attack enormously and wears down the inside of your nose. Cannibis slows down your reaction speeds, decreases your ability to think quickly and has a very high chance of mental illness to the user. And we all know the problems with herion.

Right so illegalised drugs should be legalised eh?

slinky
25-Feb-10, 00:01
nobody denied that alcohol causes more crime than blaw the thing we were talking aboot is illegal drugs and that includes more than reek why did you have to take off at a tangent are you defending the smack dealers no-one was really getting at the casual dope heid. mebbe the hash has made you paranoid. here rubberhead i started e poll not u and yous had another thread about caithness busts ,nothing to do with my post but moderators for some stupid reason felt the power to join our posts so i think ur a complete and dont have a clue wot ur ing gibbering about,and ps i aint a paranoi freak ur the 1 we problem we smack heads no me so go stick ur ideas where e sun dont shine

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 00:03
Oooh, you're harsh Vistravi!
But you're right, it seems that there isn't a chemical we can choose to put in our bodies to achieve pleasure that doesn't have a down side. Starnegly enough. Except Viagra maybe. Especially if your genitals have shrunk.

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 00:05
Naw, Bawbag!!

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 00:07
why wot do u know.... im going to start a poll infact
Hah - I was first!

sandyr1
25-Feb-10, 00:09
Hey SandyR1! How do youse deal with drug dealers over in Canada? (and leave out any contract law stuff please!)

Drug Dealers.
Depends where you are..In the City of Toronto one can get $1000 fine for 5 lbs of weed.
In the Rural areas you can get 2 years for the same offence...We have become a wee bitty 'wishy washy' with the Drug Scene////different Gov'ts have different ideas....
BUT the World suffers from the same Malady....Drugs are here to stay and things are not getting better......
I remember my 'formative' years in Caithness...lucky if we got a half bottle between 2 of us, and 10 Woodbines......for a whole weekend......them were the days!!!
But I have been here for 38 years and did some work at work on the Drug Scene..
Anyway ...r u in Kaitness?

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 00:13
Drug Dealers.
Depends where you are..In the City of Toronto one can get $1000 fine for 5 lbs of weed. In the Rural areas you can get 2 years for the same offence...We have become a wee bitty 'wishy washy' with the Drug Scene////different Gov'ts have different ideas.... BUT the World suffers from the same Malady....Drugs are here to stay and things are not getting better...... I remember my 'formative' years in Caithness...lucky if we got a half bottle between 2 of us, and 10 Woodbines......for a whole weekend......them were the days!!! But I have been here for 38 years and did some work at work on the Drug Scene.. Anyway ...r u in Kaitness?
Yep. And thankfully we don't have a major problem. Yet.
I think everyone agrees that a bit of hash ain't a big deal (!) but its what comes after that's the problem.
And then there's the booze issue. hard to ban something that makes you giggle and sit down while people are smashing the place to bits on the legal stuff, isn't it. How do youse deal with pissheads?

Vistravi
25-Feb-10, 00:15
Oooh, you're harsh Vistravi!
But you're right, it seems that there isn't a chemical we can choose to put in our bodies to achieve pleasure that doesn't have a down side. Starnegly enough. Except Viagra maybe. Especially if your genitals have shrunk.

Aye i am harsh when its needed.

Everything we ingest has pros and cons whether we like it or not. Too much of anything is bad for you.

Well too much sleep at the moment is no bad thing as I'll soon be having no sleep at night. ;)

sandyr1
25-Feb-10, 00:21
Oooh, you're harsh Vistravi!
But you're right, it seems that there isn't a chemical we can choose to put in our bodies to achieve pleasure that doesn't have a down side. Starnegly enough. Except Viagra maybe. Especially if your genitals have shrunk.

Wow I am missing these important things...and Slinky is back/ thot he was going to tell us where to score!

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 00:24
Wow I am missing these important things...and Slinky is back/ thot he was going to tell us where to score!
I think his genitals have shrunk. Or maybe he's just angry cos my thread was first!

golach
25-Feb-10, 00:27
I think his genitals have shrunk. Or maybe he's just angry cos my thread was first!

Now now Tubs, druggies dinna get angry.....they chilllllllll [disgust]

sandyr1
25-Feb-10, 00:27
I think his genitals have shrunk. Or maybe he's just angry cos my thread was first!

Actually this can be fun, when people are not toooooooooooooo nasty..and rather informative....nice to hear others point of view...even...I won't say it!
Did you say you were in Caithness or didn't you say...tryin to fathom Sherbets

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 00:31
Actually this can be fun, when people are not toooooooooooooo nasty..and rather informative....nice to hear others point of view...even...I won't say it!
Did you say you were in Caithness or didn't you say...tryin to fathom Sherbets
Ahhhh.... the great mystery. A sweet place, but it can draw your cheeks together and make yer eyes water.
Often found with a liquorice tchyoub...

sandyr1
25-Feb-10, 00:35
Ahhhh.... the great mystery. A sweet place, but it can draw your cheeks together and make yer eyes water.
Often found with a liquorice tchyoub...

OK got the drift....we have to be careful/ we are not talking about the Subject matter....I hear there is quite a problem in Wick.. true??

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 00:37
OK got the drift....we have to be careful/ we are not talking about the Subject matter....I hear there is quite a problem in Wick.. true??
With sherbet and liquorice - a major problem. But they've set up a new dental facility to deal with it!

Jeid
25-Feb-10, 00:43
Aye i am harsh when its needed.

Everything we ingest has pros and cons whether we like it or not. Too much of anything is bad for you.

Well too much sleep at the moment is no bad thing as I'll soon be having no sleep at night. ;)

Check page 7... there's a post there with both sides :)

Truth is, neither is very good.

That'll be all for this thread, I'm out. It's turned into a slagging match with people getting on their high horse about something that is never likely going to change.

It has made me laugh though.

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 00:46
Check page 7... there's a post there with both sides :)
Truth is, neither is very good.
That'll be all for this thread, I'm out. It's turned into a slagging match with people getting on their high horse about something that is never likely going to change.
It has made me laugh though.
There's a victory then. If we can at least smile, then at least it will be worth getting up tomorrow morning.
I agree, I've had enough.

sandyr1
25-Feb-10, 00:49
Check page 7... there's a post there with both sides :)

Truth is, neither is very good.

That'll be all for this thread, I'm out. It's turned into a slagging match with people getting on their high horse about something that is never likely going to change.

It has made me laugh though.

Yes 'tis funny but sometimes informative///as one can see there are many thoughts on the matter.
It shows one that it takes all kinds to make a world....

slinky
25-Feb-10, 00:51
Hah - I was first! i maybe but i never asked for my poll to be attached to ur post so i dont see why it should be:roll:

Serenity
25-Feb-10, 00:52
i maybe but i never asked for my poll to be attached to ur post so i dont see why it should be:roll:


I agree with this. Mods getting way out of hand. These threads were about two different issues.

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 00:57
Fair enough. Calm though, its only a bit of fun.

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 00:58
i maybe but i never asked for my poll to be attached to ur post so i dont see why it should be:roll:
Hope you didnae take offence.

Serenity
25-Feb-10, 01:01
Hope you didnae take offence.

I don't think it is "offensive" or such (but I am not the person you are asking). It more confused the issues and discussions. Which is why some people are asking why did it take so long to get back to the point. Which point?

slinky
25-Feb-10, 01:08
na no offence taken lads i get on a rant and cant stop sometimes but hey were all human :) i guess

Tubthumper
25-Feb-10, 01:11
Same here. Night

Bazeye
25-Feb-10, 01:49
Just finished a backshift and still no ones answered my question. Are legal highs ok then seeing as our Government havent made them illegal?

slinky
25-Feb-10, 01:59
Just finished a backshift and still no ones answered my question. Are legal highs ok then seeing as our Government havent made them illegal?
sorryv never noticed u question baz no wouldnt touch them lot of bad experience press about it i guess u mean m1 or bubbles they call it plant food sold as on internet no 1 knows ie drug testers long or short term damage it can cause so id avise stay away ,but its a catch 22 situation where as inexperienced youngsters are thinking it good or cool as its legal and its everywhere at moment why not ban it as of now until research is done death already on it one person was hallucinating off it personally i think he had been up all weekend on it sleep depravation settled in and wot happened he ripped his scrotum off nasty nasty ,and weed is illegal mmm enough said